www.StopVisionFromFeeling.com - Volunteers Needed

[VisionFromFeeling]

First of all, UncaYimmy thank you for setting up www.stopvisionfromfeeling.com! It is such a beautiful nice and pink site, and up to what's posted there today I don't disagree with any of it! So, way to go! I'm thinking of not posting there, because I might ruin it. But I'll be reading it very closely.

By her own admission, she is diagnosing people. So she is, in fact, putting ideas into people's heads about their health that she has no business putting in there.

No no no... I am not diagnosing people. I have made it very clear right from the very start that I do not offer psychic readings to people. Having this experience of medical perceptions that I have, when I perceive things about the health of close family and friends I find careful ways of telling them about it, and they are used to it so there is no harm. And so far it's mostly been harmless things, like, "Hon, does your neck muscle hurt?", "Why, yes it does!"

I encounter plenty of perceptions of serious health problems in the public but I would never even consider approaching a person and letting them know. I let nature run its course, and my medical perceptions are not part of that nature. I do not express my medical perceptions outside of this carefully conducted investigation, and it should be very clear by now that I go through great lengths to ensure that no one in my investigation gets hurt.

And, thanks to UncaYimmy, who is brilliant, we have a way of conducting the study so that the volunteers whose health information is part of the study can remain anonymous. I will never even get to speak with them. And they can never find out about my answers.

Furthermore, when asked whether a failure of her test would change her mind about her supposed ability, she stated in so many words that no test whatsoever would ever change her mind. She's convinced she has super powers, and no amount of evidence will ever convince her otherwise. This is all from the first part of the moderated VisionFromFeeling thread.

What I mean when I say that is that no matter what the investigation concludes about my medical perceptions, it will not change anything in that I get to keep the medical perceptions. I will continue to experience the perceptions in the exact same way, but perhaps, I will understand what they are. What ever this investigation concludes that they are, I will take to heart, and that is the main goal of this investigation.

I am not convinced that I have any powers or special ability. All I know is I've had correlating medical perception. And I am investigating that.

Unless, of course, she changed her mind somewhere along the line further in the chain of posts that is the original VisionFromFeeling thread, that is. I do admit that I stopped reading the thread shortly after she made this statement. I feel pretty strongly about people using supposed super powers in a medical capacity (viz., it is wrong).

I haven't changed my mind, since you've misquoted me in the first place. Now listen carefully: I am headed toward a career within the medical field. I have worked three years in a nursing home with terminally ill residents. I am a terrific double-major undergraduate science student. There is a whole other life to me that none of you have ever seen, my professional life, to which I never mix any of my personal or perhaps unconventional spare-time interests such as this paranormal investigation that I am doing. I am tremendously responsible and professional in my career. I do not confuse my subjective medical perceptions with conventional science. Just take my word for that if you can, since you will never encounter a single concrete example of where I would have done otherwise.

If she has changed her mind, I apologize and would appreciate it if someone would point it out; on the other hand, if she had changed her mind, I doubt that UncaYimmy would have suggested a www.stopvisionfromfeeling.com domain.

Thank you for apologizing. You are wrong about me.

I realize that my paranormal investigation might hurt my career, yet it is something I absolutely refuse, to think that I would have no right to explore my interesting experience of medical perceptions in a scientific manner. And that means involving Skeptics. I have every right to do so, and any career opportunity that I would lose because of my choice to share my fascinating investigation with others I think has shown to me to not possess the qualities and values that I personally stand for. I will not be made to choose away any aspect of my life.

(BTW, the steak episode was funny.)

 

[VisionFromFeeling]

So far I don't mind UncaYimmy's site. It's quite charming.

 

[VisionFromFeeling]

It seems to me that UncaYimmy is at least using his own resources to do what VfF has been using this forum to do.

I use the JREF Forums to progress in my paranormal investigation. Of course, it doesn't come across that way to some Skeptics. But that's why I'm here.

Harsh...that's an interesting choice of words. She puts out her opinion, and I put out my opinion. She creates a website, and I create one in rebuttal. How is that harsh?

I've made a close inspection of UncaYimmy's www.stopvisionfromfeeling.com and as of what's posted today I find no reason to argue against it. UncaYimmy is expressing his thoughts and opinions and so far none of it has violated any rules of conduct that apply to the use of the internet. *Or even hurt my feelings.* I could not believe that the intentions of UncaYimmy with that website would be malevolent against me as a person, and I trust that his objectives with that site are exactly what he has said. For an objective inquiry into my unconventional claims. And, I do not mind it offering people a place to vent and to discuss their thoughts about me, provided no one crosses over to the overly negative. I do realize that unfortunately my claim is provocative, and I can not deny people of their thoughts and their feelings about it.

I might come back and say otherwise a few days from now.

 

[Uncayimmy]

confused: I might come back and say otherwise a few days from now.

You can always register on the site yourself and make your own comments.

 

[VisionFromFeeling]

If she had a StopUncaYimmy website then it would be fair to have one rebutting that, but her website is just all what she imagines about herself (even if brilliant skeptics like you do get a mention ) and as far as I can see she's not doing anything illegal or immoral.

Thank you. I really try to go about my investigation the right way.

I see nothing harsh about my conduct.

So far so good, Jim.

You can always register on the site yourself and make your own comments.

Hm, for the time being, at least, I will leave it be.

Oh, at first I thought it was a slumber-party that I wasn't invited to.

 

[LightinDarkness]

Love the site - I spent a few hours reading through the other threads and its quite apparent VisionFromFeeling is here for multiple reasons - none of them good (trolling JREF, promoting her own ability WHICH IS DANGEROUS because its the equivalent to offering medical advice without a license, etc.). If she had submitted to reasonable claims to testing then it would have been excessive - but over two threads shes done exactly the opposite.

 

[lionking]

Hate the site.

 

[Darat]

Folks remember comments (whether constructive or not) about the thread's topic i.e. the website is OK, even some discussion as to the motivation behind the site is OK - insulting one another is not.

Replying to this modbox in thread will be off topic  Posted By: Darat

 

[Jonquill]

I suppose time will tell if the site is justified or not.

I thought Anita would be a bit miffed when she saw it, but maybe she just welcomes what she sees as extra attention.

I hope we eventually find out what her motives are or it will be like reading a dectective novel that is missing the last chapter.

 

[plumjam]

For LightinDarkness and others.

There are others, such as myself, who agree with Lionking; and we all have a very valid reason for it. We do not like to see one individual (particularly a relatively polite and respectful individual) systematically piled-upon, ridiculed, verbally abused, and armchair-diagnosed as mentally ill... and for the culprits in this regard to try to disingenuously pass all this off as 'concern'.

Nor do we like to see forum members writing to that individual's University to draw attention to her purportedly problematical mental health. Neither do we like to see one of these bullying types touting here a website he has specifically created in order to 'objectively' investigate VFF, while simultaneously trying to recruit people to write what will no doubt be hit pieces on her to be published online.

If people want to investigate VFF's claims, fair enough. But if you're clearly someone who gets their online kicks by indulging in the above kinds of activity expect to get called on it.
If you want to investigate her claims and feel she's taking too long, fair enough. State that in a non-abusive manner and step away, rather than indulging yourself in the bully pit.

 

[LightinDarkness]

There are others, such as myself, who agree with Lionking; and we all have a very valid reason for it. We do not like to see one individual (particularly a relatively polite and respectful individual) systematically piled-upon, ridiculed, verbally abused, and armchair-diagnosed as mentally ill... and for the culprits in this regard to try to disingenuously pass all this off as 'concern'.

Besides the fact that your analysis is completely off base and simply wrong, it doesn't really matter - people are free to create websites to debunk woos just as the woos are free to create websites to promote their own powers. In fact this works in "VisionFromFeeling"s favor because some people will choose to perform the forum role of "valiant defender" and get support they would not otherwise get. In fact, its already in progress.

Claiming you can "see" peoples medical problems through a power is a danger to the public. This isn't someone who claims to speak to ghosts or do something else that doesn't hurt anyone except themselves. And yes, there are plenty of people who fall for this kind of woo and later die or get seriously injured:
http://whatstheharm.net

Nor do we like to see forum members writing to that individual's University to draw attention to her purportedly problematical mental health. Neither do we like to see one of these bullying types touting here a website he has specifically created in order to 'objectively' investigate VFF, while simultaneously trying to recruit people to write what will no doubt be hit pieces on her, to publish them online.

In this case, VFF has decided to reveal just about everything about herself in order to promote her own website and abilities. Things would be completely different if someone had looked up all this information and the person had not volunteered all of it. This person could have just come on and revealed nothing, the decision to self-promote was hers and hers alone. If someone chooses to promote themselves like this then all that information is fair game, and the university is free to ignore letters regarding her mental health.

Stop trying to turn this person into a victim and throw a pity party. Throwing out baseless accusations does you no good. The only bullies here are the people acting hysterical and trying to shut down someone else's freedom of speech. Don't like the website? Don't go to it. Its a perfectly valid venture and no amount of making things up is going to change that.

 

[plumjam]

It doesn't really matter - people are free to create websites to debunk woos just as the woos are free to create websites to promote their own powers. In fact this works in "VisionFromFeeling"s favor because some people will choose to perform the forum role of "valiant defender" and get support they would not otherwise get. In fact, its already in progress.

Claiming you can "see" peoples medical problems through a power is a danger to the public. This isn't someone who claims to speak to ghosts or do something else that doesn't hurt anyone except themselves. And yes, there are plenty of people who fall for this kind of woo and later die or get seriously injured:
http://whatstheharm.net

If you have any evidence that Anita has intervened in anyone's life, in a way which has adversely affected that person's health, then please present it.
If you cannot do this then you'd be wise to admit that all you're doing is fearmongering. Fearmongering in order to create a base of justification for indulgence in personal attack.

In this case, VFF has decided to reveal just about everything about herself in order to promote her own website and abilities. This person could have just come on and revealed nothing, the decision to self-promote was hers and hers alone. If someone chooses to promote themselves like this then all that information is fair game,

It is fair game for investigation of claims, reasoned response, and civilised argument. It is not fair game for serial ridicule and bullying.

and the university is free to ignore letters regarding her mental health.

In the same way that if someone from this forum wrote letters to anyone of influence and importance in your own personal life then that person of influence and importance would be free to ignore letters making negative claims about your mental health.
But the fact that they'd be free to ignore them is no defence at all.
If it happened to you I'm sure you would not excuse it on such grounds.

Stop trying to turn this person into a victim and throw a pity party. Throwing out baseless accusations does you no good. The only bullies here are the people acting hysterical and trying to shut down someone else's freedom of speech.

You mention 'acting hysterical', and then 'shut down someone else's freedom of speech' all in the same sentence.
And you managed it, seemingly, while maintaining a straight face.

Don't like the website? Don't go to it. Its a perfectly valid venture and no amount of making things up is going to change that.

What did I make up?

 

[LightinDarkness]

If you have any evidence that Anita has intervened in anyone's life, in a way which has adversely affected that person's health, then please present it.
If you cannot do this then you'd be wise to admit that all you're doing is fearmongering. Fearmongering in order to create a base of justification for indulgence in personal attack.

There you go again making things up. You want proof? Visit her own website, where it clearly shows she is engaged in "reading" people and telling them what she thinks is their medical problems. Don't think there are people dumb enough to take it seriously? You'd be wrong - again:
http://www.whatstheharm.net

It is fair game for investigation of claims, reasoned response, and civilised argument. It is not fair game for serial ridicule and bullying.

The only serial ridicule and bullying I'm seeing is coming from you, not anyone else.

In the same way that if someone from this forum wrote letters to anyone of influence and importance in your own personal life then that person of influence and importance would be free to ignore letters making negative claims about your mental health.
But the fact that they'd be free to ignore them is no defence at all.
If it happened to you I'm sure you would not excuse it on such grounds.

If I volunteered myself as having special powers which could harm people AND I publicly posted all the information about me through the promotion of my own website about said power then people would be free to use the information in whatever (legal) way they want. But wait, I don't - do I? Completely invalid comparision.

You mention 'acting hysterical', and then 'shut down someone else's freedom of speech' all in the same sentence.
And you managed it, seemingly, while maintaining a straight face.

Did you bother to read what you wrote? You have the freedom to act hysterical about this by trying to transform VFF into a victim if you so choose to. Its sort of funny when you try - and completely fail - to find contradicting statements and then point out your failure.

 

[plumjam]

There you go again making things up. You want proof? Visit her own website, where it clearly shows she is engaged in "reading" people and telling them what she thinks is their medical problems. Don't think there are people dumb enough to take it seriously? You'd be wrong - again:
http://www.whatstheharm.net

Avoided the question, didn't you.
The question was whether you have any evidence that Anita has adversely affected the health of anyone at all.
You haven't any such evidence, so it's fearmongering then.

The only serial ridicule and bullying I'm seeing is coming from you, not anyone else.

Please explain in what way I am serially ridiculing and bullying anyone.
Seems that, for you, after hundreds of posts in which people ridicule and abuse Anita, for one or two posts to object to this counts as bullying.
You just don't like anyone standing up to you, do you.
No surprise there, considering what this type of situation attracts.

If I volunteered myself as having special powers which could harm people AND I publicly posted all the information about me through the promotion of my own website about said power then people would be free to use the information in whatever (legal) way they want. But wait, I don't - do I? Completely invalid comparision.

You have yet to establish any harm.
Whichever line of business you're in will involve people knowing your contact details, and probably those of your employer. Would the fact that you have furnished those people with your employer's contact details count as a moral justification for them writing to your employer in order to cast unwarranted and unwelcome aspersions about your mental health?
No, I didn't think so.

Did you bother to read what you wrote? You have the freedom to act hysterical about this by trying to transform VFF into a victim if you so choose to. Its sort of funny when you try - and completely fail - to find contradicting statements and then point out your failure.

You are not expressing yourself clearly. Try again.

 

[LightinDarkness]

Avoided the question, didn't you.
The question was whether you have any evidence that Anita has adversely affected the health of anyone at all.
You haven't any such evidence, so it's fearmongering then.

You completely avoided the evidence again, didn't you? Right in your face and just ignore it because it isn't what you want to Believe? Just more fear mongering by you that using someones information which THEY have put on their OWN website and PROMOTED in this forum is somehow going to lead to horrible things happening. I'm seeing a pattern - all these base accusations your throwing around are things your doing.

By the way, do you have any evidence that jumping into a tub filled with acid adversely impacts your health? Please provide evidence. Otherwise to make the claim that jumping into acid is harmful is fear mongering.

Please explain in what way I am serially ridiculing and bullying anyone.
Seems that, for you, after hundreds of posts in which people ridicule and abuse Anita, for one or two posts to object to this counts as bullying.
You just don't like anyone standing up to you, do you.
No surprise there, considering what this type of situation attracts.

Please show posts which ridicule and abused anyone other than your own - just because you make things up doesn't make it true.

You have yet to establish any harm.
Whichever line of business you're in will involve people knowing your contact details, and probably those of your employer. Would the fact that you have furnished those people with your employer's contact details count as a moral justification for them writing to your employer in order to cast unwarranted and unwelcome aspersions about your mental health?
No, I didn't think so.

Your denial of the facts does not make them not exist. Yep, if I claimed to have special powers which can harm people and I freely gave out my contact information in order to support said powers it would be perfectly normal for anyone to use it in whatever legal way they see fit. You thought wrong, as usual.

You are not expressing yourself clearly. Try again.

You have failed completely. Try again. Maybe this helpful check list can be of assistance since you don't seem to want to see the facts in front of you:

Instructions: To determine whether someone has a right to use your personal information in any legal way they see fit, check in the following boxes:

Has the person you are trying to make into a helpless victim:
[ ] Claimed to have a special paranormal power where they give people "readings" that tell them medical ailments without the use of medical instruments and the person is not a licensed medical professional.
[ ] Made a website for the promotion of this claim, and decided to put their contact information on said website.
[ ] Registered on a forum and repeatedly promoted the above website.

If you checked all three in the list above, THEN YES VIRGINIA, people have a right to use it in any legal way possible. If all 3 ARE NOT TRUE, then NO.

 

[GeeMack]

How is Anita diagnosing people any different from your great aunt saying "You're looking a bit peeky Dear, I think you're coming down with whooping cough."

Claiming to be a doctor or something that you're not is one thing, some silly chook telling you their opinion of what your health is like is another.

My great aunt never actually considered herself a member of the medical profession, nor did she claim to be using some kind of super power to look at tissue inside bodies to make some kind of low level diagnosis of medical issues. And neither, I'd venture to guess, did your great aunt.

What is so unbelievably unacceptable about the claim of perceiving automatic and involuntary images of tissue when looking at a body? Heck, some most guys'll look at a woman and get automatic and involuntary images of what her surface looks like. I just go deeper than that. (Note: It is not the same thing. I'm just joking. Besides, just in case someone is wondering - and I'm sure some of you are - I mostly look at the liver, heart, prostate and lungs in men. And *nothing else*. )

But I can, if I sense a health problem. You know how some people have aluminum hats to keep others from reading their thoughts telepathically. I bet I'll have people wearing aluminum underwear now.

I hold great respect for people's integrity. I do see, feel, and detect plenty of personal health information. It doesn't bother me, and after working three years as a practical nurse I do regard myself as health care staff so it all takes place in a most professional manner and mind-set.

And your great aunt, I would certainly hope, didn't perpetuate a bold-faced lie about her ability, or lack thereof, to perceive people's medical conditions by simply giving them a look-over. She didn't say, on one hand, that she would like to diagnose people, as a health care professional, in a most professional manner, then a few days later do a 180 degree turn around and deny it...

No no no... I am not diagnosing people. I have made it very clear right from the very start that I do not offer psychic readings to people. Having this experience of medical perceptions that I have, when I perceive things about the health of close family and friends I find careful ways of telling them about it, and they are used to it so there is no harm. And so far it's mostly been harmless things, like, "Hon, does your neck muscle hurt?", "Why, yes it does!"

But then (probably) your great aunt, and mine, weren't mentally ill. I think we'd all agree that anyone with a mental illnesses that manifests itself in delusions and compulsive lying, if they are attempting to engage in medical practices at any level, should be considered dangerous.

 

[plumjam]

You completely avoided the evidence again, didn't you? Right in your face and just ignore it because it isn't what you want to Believe? Just more fear mongering by you that using someones information which THEY have put on their OWN website and PROMOTED in this forum is somehow going to lead to horrible things happening. I'm seeing a pattern - all these base accusations your throwing around are things your doing.

I had no choice but to avoid the evidence, because you didn't provide any.
My request was for evidence of Anita adversely affecting anyone's health.
You are squirming now.

By the way, do you have any evidence that jumping into a tub filled with acid adversely impacts your health? Please provide evidence. Otherwise to make the claim that jumping into acid is harmful is fear mongering.

Yes, I have evidence for that. But it's too potentially distressing to link to here.
To go with your analogy, what you're doing is accusing Anita of either pushing or persuading people into acid baths. You have no evidence for this allegation.
You're fearmongering.

Please show posts which ridicule and abused anyone other than your own - just because you make things up doesn't make it true.

Try the original VFF thread, which after hundreds of such posts, had to be shut down by management due to the level of baseness those attacking Anita had resorted to.

Your denial of the facts does not make them not exist. Yep, if I claimed to have special powers which can harm people and I freely gave out my contact information in order to support said powers it would be perfectly normal for anyone to use it in whatever legal way they see fit. You thought wrong, as usual.

You have established no actual harm. When actual harm has been established then people can rightly go to the authorities; instead of cowardly letters to people in her personal life.

You have failed completely. Try again. Maybe this helpful check list can be of assistance since you don't seem to want to see the facts in front of you:

Instructions: To determine whether someone has a right to use your personal information in any legal way they see fit, check in the following boxes:

Has the person you are trying to make into a helpless victim:
[ ] Claimed to have a special paranormal power where you give people "readings" that tell them medical ailments when you are not qualified to make such diagnosis.
[ ] Made a website for the promotion of this claim, and decided to put your contact information on said website.
[ ] Registered on a forum and repeatedly promoted the above website.

If you checked all three in the list above, THEN YES VIRGINIA, people have a right to use it in any legal way possible. If all 3 ARE NOT TRUE, then NO.

Plucked these out of the air, didn't you.
If you really believe Anita has done anything seriously harmful or illegal to anyone then you should have the courage of your convictions and call the police. Go ahead, and report back.
If you don't do so, why would that be?
Lack of evidence?

 

[desertgal]

By her own admission, she is diagnosing people. So she is, in fact, putting ideas into people's heads about their health that she has no business putting in there. Furthermore, when asked whether a failure of her test would change her mind about her supposed ability, she stated in so many words that no test whatsoever would ever change her mind. She's convinced she has super powers, and no amount of evidence will ever convince her otherwise. This is all from the first part of the moderated VisionFromFeeling thread.

Unless, of course, she changed her mind somewhere along the line further in the chain of posts that is the original VisionFromFeeling thread, that is. I do admit that I stopped reading the thread shortly after she made this statement. I feel pretty strongly about people using supposed super powers in a medical capacity (viz., it is wrong). If she has changed her mind, I apologize and would appreciate it if someone would point it out; on the other hand, if she had changed her mind, I doubt that UncaYimmy would have suggested a www.stopvisionfromfeeling.com domain.

You are not incorrect. No need to apologize.

 

[LightinDarkness]

I had no choice but to avoid the evidence, because you didn't provide any.
My request was for evidence of Anita adversely affecting anyone's health.
You are squirming now.

What another spectacular failure of a post from you. You get shown the facts and are in complete denial.

Would you please present your evidence that diagnosing people of medical problems without medical instruments and without a license is not harmful? Especially because doing that its called practicing medicine without a license and every medical board agrees its harmful. I suppose you know so much more than all those medical boards though. They just make up these silly rules for nothing - I mean who needs a MD to tell you that you have cancer when someone can read you through their special powers?

Yes, I have evidence for that. But it's too potentially distressing to link to here.
To go with your analogy, what you're doing is accusing Anita of either pushing or persuading people into acid baths. You have no evidence for this allegation.
You're fearmongering.

Is fear mongering your word of the day? Its hilarious to watch you type it over and over without the faintest idea of knowing what it actually means. More baseless accusations and insults from you and 0 evidence yet again. Failure, failure, failure.

I want SPECIFIC evidence that jumping into a bath full of acid is harmful. Specific. If you fail to provide it, you are fear mongering by suggesting people shouldn't jump into acid vats. Isn't using your own completely wrong logic against you great?

Try the original VFF thread, which after hundreds of such posts, had to be shut down by management due to the level of baseness those attacking Anita had resorted to.

Oh look, more completely baseless accusations by you without evidence. I sense a pattern!

You have established no actual harm. When actual harm has been established then people can rightly go to the authorities; instead of cowardly letters to people in her personal life.

Right, because we need to have someone jump in a bathtub of acid first before we tell people they shouldn't do that.

Plucked these out of the air, didn't you.
If you really believe Anita has done anything seriously harmful or illegal to anyone then you should have the courage of your convictions and call the police. Go ahead, and report back.
If you don't do so, why would that be?
Lack of evidence?

I see you've failed again - is this a reading comprehension issue? Otherwise all 3 check boxes would be filled. My my, even making things simple for you isn't helping.

Its too bad the police weren't notified before so many people died of woo like this, which you keep ignoring because you are completely wrong and you know it:
http://www.whatstheharm.net.

How many people would like to have murdered by those practicing "alternative medicine" like this?

What's the harm in alternative medicine?

Complementary or alternative medicine works outside the evidence-based realm of science. This area includes alt-med stories that don't fit into any of our other categories. Read more about alternative medicine

Here are 276 people who were harmed by someone not thinking critically.

But I guess you are OK with the murder of 276 people because, you know, we should let the woos try out their "powers" on people and wait for someone dumb enough to take them seriously before stopping it. You would much prefer we wait for someone to jump into a bathtub of acid before determining if its harmful.

Now I have a life so you post back with your next failure and keep flailing about (as usual you will ignore all the evidence that proves you wrong). I'll debunk you later. Its almost too easy.

 

[LightinDarkness]

You are not incorrect. No need to apologize.

Although apparently we are supposed to wait until she diagnoses someone wrongly (previous thread shows - high chance of that) and they get harmed from it. Obviously until then we should just let her run about and diagnose people and wait for someone dumb enough to take her seriously.

/sarcasm