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Chávez: America Bad, Russia Good.

I agree with you as far as you go, but there were other instances that were less defensible.

I think that being involved in a global struggle against forces bent on world domination can, if not excuse, provide a rational for many of the worse US actions.

On the other hand, you had stuff like the United Fruit Company, which while not the actual government of the US, did enough shady stuff to fuel an understandable anti-US sentiment.
Oh yes. No argument. There was the whole baby formula fiasco also (assuming that wasn't an urban legend. I just realized I have never checked). The scuttlebutt was that American baby formula companies in the 60's or 70's (IIRC) were selling powdered baby formula to poor women in Latin America and babies were getting sick because they were not yet ready to deal with the local water used to make the formula. Company owners knew of the problem but couldn't give up the profits.

A quick Google search only shows recent incidents. I'll look into it but in any event, yeah, America has done a number of indefensible things. Some of them purely selfish and exploitative. I won't deny that.
 
From Wiki:


Marketing of formula

Main articles: infant formula and Nestlé boycott
Beginning in the late 1970s Nestlé began to attract global criticism for its infant-formula marketing policies, especially those conducted in developing countries. Public outcry peaked with the Nestlé boycott of 1977 which (though suspended for several years in the mid-1980s) it remains in effect today. Nestlé is the most boycotted company in the world as a result [1].
Evidence [2] shows that Nestlé advertised and still advertises its formula as a risk-free substitute (or even a preferable alternative) to breastmilk, resulting in increased use and often replacing available breastmilk. There is a substantial body of evidence [3] on the risks of the use of formula. Risks stem from the intrinsic problems of use of a non human substance as a food for the human infant, the risks of contamination of the product itself with chemical contaminants or pathogenic bacteria [4] or the risks of incorrect or unsafe making up or storage and use of formula in bottles. The risks of formula are much greater when used in the developing world with about 1.5 million deaths a year attributable to lack of breastfeeding [5]. However deaths also occur in the developed world [6] especially among premature infants who are at increased risk of necrotising enterocholitis when fed with formula.
The promotion and distribution of formula, particularly in undeveloped regions, continues.[11][12] Responding to criticism, Nestlé now labels all non-formula milk products (such as coffee creamer) with explicative warnings such as, "this product is not to be used as a breast milk substitute."[13] The agricultural conglomerate also voiced its agreement to abide by the nonbinding International Code of Marketing of Breast-milk Substitutes established in 2004 by the World Health Assembly, though the company has faced multiple allegations of breaching this policy.[14][15][16][17] The most recent evidence of malpractice came in February 2008, to which Nestlé responded by halting distribution of one product line and shutting down the operations of an independent licensee.[13]
 
Well, this comes directly from our own adventurism in the last 20 years, I dare say, especially, but not limited to, the last 8.
 
Well, this comes directly from our own adventurism in the last 20 years, I dare say, especially, but not limited to, the last 8.

The US's poor relationship with Latin America goes back WAY past the 1980's. Depending on how far out on the limb I feel like crawling, I'd say it's been problematic at least since the Platt Amendement in 1899 and possibly since the annexation of Texas in 1845.
 
The US's poor relationship with Latin America goes back WAY past the 1980's. Depending on how far out on the limb I feel like crawling, I'd say it's been problematic at least since the Platt Amendement in 1899 and possibly since the annexation of Texas in 1845.
Yeah, the last 8 were probably the least active. Not that Bush wouldn't have done more if he could have but he was probably pre-occupied with his mid-east adventure.
 
There's a patent interest of Chavez in building a sort of regional coalition, perhaps a supranational entity in which, of course, he'll be the spiritual leader. Not only has he gotten support from neighboring countries, ie Bolivia, but by openly offering oil or money to Nicaragua and others, he has sparked interest in leftism and alliances that are turning the tables against the US.

He's clearly obsessed with Simón Bolivar, and no doubt we'll be hearing references to him to justify whatever plan becomes evident in the future.
 
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The US's poor relationship with Latin America goes back WAY past the 1980's. Depending on how far out on the limb I feel like crawling, I'd say it's been problematic at least since the Platt Amendement in 1899 and possibly since the annexation of Texas in 1845.

Oh, heavens yes, it was our excursion into Russia's back door I was thinking of.
 
While I think it appropriate to criticize America for a number of things I do think it appropriate to add some context. Given the tens of millions murdered, imprisoned and oppressed by communist regimes America had legitimate concerns about Communism in the Southern Hemisphere. Often times we did not have great choices. Sitting back and hoping that Soviet influenced communism didn't take hold close to our borders wasn't really seen as an option. Unfortunately Leninism was an attractive means of liberation for many who didn't know about or thought they were immune to the tyranny and oppression that so called communism brought with it.

So we acted and often made poor decisions or what we believed was the best choice between two evils. Hindsight being 20/20.

This could be frased differently with slightly more emphasis on the fight against communism being used as an excuse for replacing social democrats with vassal dictatorships and generaly serving ones imperial ambitions.
 
He's clearly obsessed with Simón Bolivar, and no doubt we'll be hearing references to him to justify whatever plan becomes evident in the future.
I always thought Bolivar was a pretty great guy, even after allowing for his anti-democracy attitudes, but even the best efforts to have an American style revolution and government seemed doomed to failure. Haiti's my favorite example of that with L'Ouverture and the end of slavery quickly fracturing into factional strife that let France and later America come back and roll right over them again.
 
This could be frased differently with slightly more emphasis on the fight against communism being used as an excuse for replacing social democrats with vassal dictatorships and generally serving ones imperial ambitions.
Could be but then it doesn't quite fit with America helping to rebuild Japan, Germany and other European nations and helping them secure freedom and Democracy and advancing liberal Democracy which in turn led to increased socialism (cultural reference, BTW, that was the basis for Peter Seller's The Mouse that Roared).

I guess if you see the world mostly in black and white where America is far more likely to be motivated by self serving interests to the detriment of others then I guess evidence contrary to that world view doesn't really matter. The Berlin Air lift could be dismissed as propaganda cooked up by those imperialist Americans to discredit Communism.

Still, if America really is and has been bent on imperialsim I don't quite get why we didn't annex West Germany, Japan and much of Europe the way the Soviet union annexed Hungary, Checkoslovakia, East Germany, etc..

Americans, either they are really, really shrewed when it comes to hegemony or they really suck at imperialism.

Then again perhaps I've excluded the middle and in fact the story is a bit more nuanced than you think... but nuance is boring. Just ask the bright eyed Americans with the Boris and Natasha view of the East.
 
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It'll sure be funny to watch the Chavez fanclub try to rationalize this support for such a corrupt country as Russia. Sure America has some problems and the usual Anti-American crowd likes to complain and point the finger at anything that comes up here and there, but Russia is way beyond anything the US has ever known as far as corruption and undemocratic shemes. It's corrupt times 1000 compared to the US.

Hey Randfan, you're back! :)

BTW, while we're comparing histories, I wonder if Chavez supports what Russia has done in Afghanistan, and Tchetchnia over the years. Seems he has a double standard.
 
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It'll sure be funny to watch the Chavez fanclub try to rationalize this support for such a corrupt country as Russia. Sure America has some problems and the usual Anti-American crowd likes to complain and point the finger at anything that comes up here and there, but Russia is way beyond anything the US has ever known as far as corruption and undemocratic shemes. It's corrupt times 1000 compared to the US.
Yep.

Hey Randfan, you're back! :)[/quote]I do that. It keeps people on their toes. Actually I've got to get away from time to time to get work done. I took on 2 big projects that were on top of my current workload. I'm not in the clear but I had to take a couple of days off. I was really getting burned out.
 
Given the tens of millions murdered, imprisoned and oppressed by communist regimes America had legitimate concerns about Communism in the Southern Hemisphere.

Yeah, America was so concerned about people being murdered, imprisoned and oppressed that it went there to murder, imprison and oppress people in order to prevent that happening.

If you think these are the concerns that drive foreign policy you're just naive. It's not about saving people. It's about power, economics, access to natural resources / markets / cheap labour etc..
 
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The scuttlebutt was that American baby formula companies in the 60's or 70's (IIRC) were selling powdered baby formula to poor women in Latin America and babies were getting sick because they were not yet ready to deal with the local water used to make the formula.

Nestlé is a Swiss corporation.

- Dr. Trintignant
 

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