Hardfire: Physics of 9/11

I think you misunderstood.

Do you think the swaying is too high or too low.
What difference does it make to you?

I think you are complaining about not having enough data for your own models.

What are you trying to model?
 
.
Where did I claim to PROVE something?

You didn't, because you proved nothing, zero, zip.
I guess PROOF doesn't mean much to you people anyway.
This is because some loon who equates toothpicks and washers to the collapse of massive skyscrapers hasn’t really proved anything, right?

Oh wait you did just prove something, but I guess you fail to understand exactly what it is you proved, right?
 
I really for the life of me don't understand what the point of this whole Ryan/Ron production is for. I can understand why Ron would commit to it being that he really has nothing better to do. But Macky who is supposedly a (what is is it a Rocket Scientist with NASA or something?) scientist seems to have all kinds of time to post, write white papers, and make presentations, on 9/11.

At the same time they both will proclaim 9/11 truth is dead now for 3 years.

Why beat a dead horse if it's really dead?

After almost eight years do they still have doubts?

"The lady doth protest too much, methinks."
 
You didn't, because you proved nothing, zero, zip.

This is because some loon who equates toothpicks and washers to the collapse of massive skyscrapers hasn’t really proved anything, right?

Oh wait you did just prove something, but I guess you fail to understand exactly what it is you proved, right?
.
More word selection games.

Where did the NIST PROVE that fireproofing was knocked off the trusses? OH, they didn't have to PROVE that to you guys, did they? :D :D

I didn't equate anything to anything. Look at MacKey's Hardfire #3. What did he say about modeling or are you saying he's a dummy that doesn't know what he is talking about?

psik
 
go read the book,

heres more accounts, most of them are duplicated in the book

http://911stories.googlepages.com/insidethenorthtower:witnessaccounts91-60

[FONT=arial,sans-serif]85th floor
"Marvin W. Pickrum,...85th floor inside Tower One....It felt like the building leaned, like standing with your back to the waves in the ocean."



[/FONT][FONT=arial,sans-serif]85th floor
Timothy Snyder and two other employees of Thermo Electron were in their 85th floor office in the North Tower of the World Trade Center when the plane hit three floors above them. They didn’t know it was a plane; Mr. Snyder believed it was a bomb.

“We were just working,” he says. “All of a sudden, we heard this slamming sound that was so loud. The debris started falling outside the windows, and the door to the office blew open. The building started swaying, and it was hard to say if the building would remain standing. I was in my chair, and I just grabbed onto my desk.

“After five or 10 seconds, the building stopped moving, and we knew we had to leave. We all grabbed our bags and headed out.” They walked down to the 78th floor where they were guided to another stairwell, crossing a lobby with a bank of elevators. The marble walls of the lobby were buckled.

[/FONT][FONT=arial,sans-serif]85th floor
Corky Adams: I begin preparing reports for another day of trading at the NYMEX,... horrific explosion. An immediate change in the air pressure. A ghostly column of air shoots like a canon into the office. The front door slams shut. Papers are whipped into the air. I’m thrown off my chair and to the ground. My boss jumps out of his office a second prior to the explosion. He had watched, in horrific disbelief, the entire event as the plane narrowly missed the empire state building and set a direct course for our building. The explosion sends the tower shaking furiously, lurching back and forth with sickening vengeance for maybe five or ten seconds. I think we may die. The building may topple over, or crumble. Finally it stops. The building is still standing. Everybody stares at each other, no idea of what happened or what to say. Speculations about an explosion, a bomb. No, it was a plane, our boss says. A commercial jet.

[/FONT][FONT=arial,sans-serif]83rd floor
Allen ran computer operations at Lava Trading, on the 83rd floor of the North Tower. Allen was also a licensed pilot and a ham radio operator. When he saw a plane flying low south along the Hudson
River about 8:45 AM, he was surprised, but supposed that it was approaching Newark Airport. A moment later, however, he noticed the familiar sound of a pilot gunning the aircraft’s engine, then heard a
roar as the plane hit the building thirteen floors above him. The building started shuddering, debris began falling, and fires fed by cascading airplane fuel broke out. http://press.princeton.edu/chapters/s8136.html

[/FONT][FONT=arial,sans-serif]82nd floor
"...they heard the boom. The building swayed so severely that it nearly knocked them off their feet. Pieces of the facade started raining outside the window. Patrice Yepez, a co-worker, ran in screaming that a fireball had blown out the elevators. Borst ran into the main corridor and found it destroyed....” http://www.newsday.com/ny-lisave172418919oct17.story


[/FONT][FONT=arial,sans-serif]81st floor, didn't hear impact.
Michael Wright: "All of a sudden there was this shift of an earthquake. People ask, "Did you hear a boom?" No, the way I can best describe it is that every joint in the building jolted...we all got knocked off balance...the flex caused the marble walls in the bathroom to crack.

[/FONT][FONT=arial,sans-serif]72nd floor
Frank Lombardi, Port Authority Chief Engineer
Lombardi was at his desk. He heard nothing, but felt the tower sway, and saw people in the hallway go airborne before they fell. His first thought was that New York was experiencing an earthquake. [/FONT][FONT=arial,sans-serif]William Langewiesche. American Ground. New York: North Point Press, 2002. p.47


[/FONT][FONT=arial,sans-serif]70th floor
Kim King: When the plane entered the World Trade Tower One, the impact was enormously overwhelming. For a couple of seconds I didn’t breathe, my body was frozen, my eyes were open wide but yet I couldn’t see what was happening, and my mind went totally blank. Mentally I couldn’t even begin to register what was happening. The sound of the impact was so massive; my body just trembled with fear, sadness, horror, and panic. The sound of impact was so loud I was truly disorientated. Tower One instantaneously rocked from side to side. It must have rocked at least 15 to 20 degrees in each direction, to the point that it made you loose your balance, however, it felt like my feet were glued to the floor. The floor shook so much your knees buckled, you could see the ceiling trembling above you, the windows were actually shaking and you could hear the sounds of Tower cracking apart. The cracking sounds of the Tower were dreadfully unnatural. My heart was about to beat out of my chest and my body was shaking from fear. The horrifying thing now, was that this was only the beginning of the nightmare.

[/FONT][FONT=arial,sans-serif]68th floor
Greg Trevor: I was nearly knocked to the floor by the impact of the first plane, which slammed into the north side of Tower One more than 20 floors above me. I heard a loud thud, followed by an explosion. The building felt like it swayed about 10 feet to the south. It shuddered back to the north, then shimmied back and forth.


[/FONT][FONT=arial,sans-serif]62nd floor
Daniel T. Duffy: I heard no sound - no crash, no explosion, no screams, but I felt that fortress of steel and glass wobble back and forth like it was a cheap card table, nearly knocking me off my feet. It felt for a moment as if the entire building would go toppling over onto Church Street.

[/FONT][FONT=arial,sans-serif]Below 53rd floor
Kenton Beerman, 24, was also sending e-mail at work when an explosion rocked 1 World Trade Center, making it sway back and forth for 10 seconds.

At first, Beerman thought the building would fall into the Hudson River. Then he realized it had stopped moving and saw thousands of pieces of paper fluttering outside.


[/FONT]

Now that it is established that there was a SHATTERING impact from these witness statements let's have a look at the video evidence. Watch this video through from about 50 seconds and see the plane strike he building. Do you see any kind of shockwave ? Select any point where you would expect to see some reaction of the building to the brute force of the impact. Did the left engine hit first ? If so why did we see no rotation of the tail ?
Given he power of the impact that made the building sway , why did the plane not burst on impact ? How did the delicate nose penetrate steel box columns without deforming ?

http://nomoregames.net/presentations/Madison_No_Planes_Final_August_07.ppt_files/slide0045_image034 Nose Cone
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JPR0hw-mqnk&feature=related 5-6
 
Bill and BOTH of his two brain cells, Calling victims liars

Now that it is established that there was a SHATTERING impact from these witness statements let's have a look at the video evidence. Watch this video through from about 50 seconds and see the plane strike he building. Do you see any kind of shockwave ? Select any point where you would expect to see some reaction of the building to the brute force of the impact. Did the left engine hit first ? If so why did we see no rotation of the tail ?
Given he power of the impact that made the building sway , why did the plane not burst on impact ? How did the delicate nose penetrate steel box columns without deforming ?

http://nomoregames.net/presentations/Madison_No_Planes_Final_August_07.ppt_files/slide0045_image034 Nose Cone
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JPR0hw-mqnk&feature=related%20%20%205-6



So based on a grainy youtube video and your own profound ignorance and argument from incredulity Bill. All those first hand witnesses I listed above who were in the building are liars? really? prove to us that you are not the lowest of the loathsome bill. a "no planer"
 
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go read the book,

heres more accounts, most of them are duplicated in the book

http://911stories.googlepages.com/insidethenorthtower:witnessaccounts91-60

OK - the WTC1 plane impact, &c; was on floors 94-96:

“A jet fuel fireball erupted upon impact and shot down at least one bank of elevators.The fireball exploded onto numerous lower floors, including the 77th and 22nd; the West Street lobby level; and the B4 level, four stories below ground.”– 9/11 Commission Report, P. 285

So, plane/fuel impacts horizontally at 450 mph at floor 94-96 and produces a fire ball. But some fuel is not fire balling but turns 90° and goes down the elevator shafts (of one bank?) and explodes as numerous lower floors, incl. floors 77, 22, lobby and B4 level. So - at least 4 elevator shafts must have been busy transporting jet fuel down them to floors 77, 22, lobby and B4 level.

Thus, the jet fuel drops or rather flows down four separate elevator shafts and then stops there, we are told.

But why would the jet fuel then explode down at floors 77, 22 lobby and B4 below? It is not easy to ignite jet fuel.

Or was it the fire ball - hot gases - that went down the elevator shafts? How is it possible? Gases are light. OK, they, the gases, were forced down the elevator shafts. By a fire ball!

And why would some of these hot gases explode ... again ... later?

My tankers have transported plenty of jet fuel without exploding. No gases or too rich gases. Empty tankers, without jet fuel, but with some jet fuel gases in pockets + air, may explode if you are really stupid. But only once!

That a fire ball pushes jet fuel gases down four elevator shafts that then explode at numerous levels is not possible.

Apparently the whole lobby and level B4 were severely damaged by explosions. By a fire ball 350 m above? Please!

Thus, in my humble view the 911 Commission report, P 285, is utter nonsense. Like all other pages of named report. It is a fairy tale!

But this is all OT. Unless RM makes a model of it! :)
 
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OK - the WTC1 plane impact, &c; was on floors 94-96:

“A jet fuel fireball erupted upon impact and shot down at least one bank of elevators.The fireball exploded onto numerous lower floors, including the 77th and 22nd; the West Street lobby level; and the B4 level, four stories below ground.”– 9/11 Commission Report, P. 285

So, plane/fuel impacts horizontally at 450 mph at floor 94-96 and produces a fire ball. But some fuel is not fire balling but turns 90° and goes down the elevator shafts (of one bank?) and explodes as numerous lower floors, incl. floors 77, 22, lobby and B4 level. So - at least 4 elevator shafts must have been busy transporting jet fuel down them to floors 77, 22, lobby and B4 level.

Thus, the jet fuel drops or rather flows down four separate elevator shafts and then stops there, we are told.

But why would the jet fuel then explode down at floors 77, 22 lobby and B4 below? It is not easy to ignite jet fuel.

Or was it the fire ball - hot gases - that went down the elevator shafts? How is it possible? Gases are light. OK, they, the gases, were forced down the elevator shafts. By a fire ball!

And why would some of these hot gases explode ... again ... later?

My tankers have transported plenty of jet fuel without exploding. No gases or too rich gases. Empty tankers, without jet fuel, but with some jet fuel gases in pockets + air, may explode if you are really stupid. But only once!

That a fire ball pushes jet fuel gases down four elevator shafts that then explode at numerous levels is not possible.

Apparently the whole lobby and level B4 were severely damaged by explosions. By a fire ball 350 m above? Please!

Thus, in my humble view the 911 Commission report, P 285, is utter nonsense. Like all other pages of named report. It is a fairy tale!

But this is all OT. Unless RM makes a model of it! :)

Yours is an argument from incredulity Anders. When a pool of fuel burns does it burn from the bottom up Anders? Or does it burn from the surface?

And Your tankers? What tankers? You have no tankers!! The only tankers you have are those rubber ones in your bathtub in your apartment building at [SIZE=-1]6, rue Victor Hugo, F 06 240 Beausoleil, France![/SIZE]
 
The Next Experiment!

You guys are complaining about washers. What else should I use?

I know HARD DISK DRIVES!

I could start buying old dead hard drives. I could even do some dumpster diving and take them out of computers that people throw away. I'll have to figure out how to make supports that are actually stronger toward the bottom as they support more drives. A stack of 20 drives is probably pretty heavy.

Put some 5 1/4 full heights at the bottom. Those were some heavy mothers compared to these dinky 500 gig drives we have nowadays. LOL

:D :D :D

psik
 
Hmmmm, I have two very important questions.

According to the french phone book, the "Pages blanches", Heiwa's first name is spelled as "Bjorkmann". No, the phone book for professionnal business ("Pages Jaunes") don't mention any "Heiwaco" in France.

So where are the "Heiwaco" offices? What's the correct spelling of Heiwa's first name?

The fraud goes on...
 
So based on a grainy youtube video and your own profound ignorance and argument from incredulity Bill. All those first hand witnesses I listed above who were in the building are liars? really? prove to us that you are not the lowest of the loathsome bill. a "no planer"

Let the record show that you were the one to mention the witnesses were possibly lying and you were the only one to bring no-planes into the argument.

If you don't like the youtbe version of the video it is available in the original CNN format in the stores (or whichever media organisation it was).

Please stop using that 'argument from incredulity ' phrase. You overuse it to the point of irritation. You'll be saying 'ilk' next.lol
 
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Please stop using that 'argument from incredulity ' phrase. You overuse it to the point of irritation. You'll be saying 'ilk' next.lol


The shoe fits, If you have a problem with that, stop making arguments from incredulity

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argument_from_ignorance
The argument from ignorance, also known as argumentum ad ignorantiam ("appeal to ignorance" [1]), argument by lack of imagination, or negative evidence, is a logical fallacy in which it is claimed that a premise is true only because it has not been proven false, or is false only because it has not been proven true.
The argument from personal incredulity, also known as argument from personal belief or argument from personal conviction, refers to an assertion that because one personally finds a premise unlikely or unbelievable, the premise can be assumed to be false, or alternatively that another preferred but unproven premise is true instead.
Both arguments commonly share this structure: a person regards the lack of evidence for one view as constituting proof that another view is true. The types of fallacies discussed in this article should not be confused with the reductio ad absurdum method of argument, in which a valid logical contradiction of the form "A and not A" is used to disprove a premise.

Now that it is established that there was a SHATTERING impact from these witness statements let's have a look at the video evidence. Watch this video through from about 50 seconds and see the plane strike he building. Do you see any kind of shockwave ? Select any point where you would expect to see some reaction of the building to the brute force of the impact. Did the left engine hit first ? If so why did we see no rotation of the tail ?
Given he power of the impact that made the building sway , why did the plane not burst on impact ? How did the delicate nose penetrate steel box columns without deforming
?
 
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Yours is an argument from incredulity Anders. When a pool of fuel burns does it burn from the bottom up Anders? Or does it burn from the surface?

And Your tankers? What tankers? You have no tankers!! The only tankers you have are those rubber ones in your bathtub in your apartment building at [SIZE=-1]6, rue Victor Hugo, F 06 240 Beausoleil, France![/SIZE]

Pool of fuel? Fire ball!! Hollywood, style. No pools of fuel at Hollywood. Fire balls. 911 Commission stuff. Fire balls! Taking the elevator to B4 level!

My tankers? You mean the ones I looked after in the 80's, 90's, 00's. All 40+. They traded the oceans. But you got my French address right. I like http://heiwaco.tripod.com/freiberg.htm better. Old house, though.
 
The shoe fits, If you have a problem with that, stop making arguments from incredulity

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argument_from_ignorance

Just for completemess and context let's restore the links you deleted.

Now that it is established that there was a SHATTERING impact from these witness statements let's have a look at the video evidence. Watch this video through from about 50 seconds and see the plane strike he building. Do you see any kind of shockwave ? Select any point where you would expect to see some reaction of the building to the brute force of the impact. Did the left engine hit first ? If so why did we see no rotation of the tail ?
Given he power of the impact that made the building sway , why did the plane not burst on impact ? How did the delicate nose penetrate steel box columns without deforming ? (had to restore this to contextualise the links)

http://nomoregames.net/presentations...e0045_image034 Nose Cone
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JPR0h...ed 5-6
 
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Pool of fuel? Fire ball!! Hollywood, style. No pools of fuel at Hollywood. Fire balls. 911 Commission stuff. Fire balls! Taking the elevator to B4 level!

My tankers? You mean the ones I looked after in the 80's, 90's, 00's. All 40+. They traded the oceans. But you got my French address right. I like http://heiwaco.tripod.com/freiberg.htm better. Old house, though.

They kicked you out of of your apartment too? Yes Anders, im sure any vessel you held a torch to is now plying the depths of reefs worldwide. I might have seen your work on the old tv series Diver Dan. Baron Barracuda lives there.
 
Just for completemess and context let's restore the links you deleted.

Now that it is established that there was a SHATTERING impact from these witness statements let's have a look at the video evidence. Watch this video through from about 50 seconds and see the plane strike he building. Do you see any kind of shockwave ? Select any point where you would expect to see some reaction of the building to the brute force of the impact. Did the left engine hit first ? If so why did we see no rotation of the tail ?
Given he power of the impact that made the building sway , why did the plane not burst on impact ? How did the delicate nose penetrate steel box columns without deforming ? (had to restore this to contextualise the links)

http://nomoregames.net/presentations...e0045_image034 Nose Cone
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JPR0h...ed 5-6

Are you a no planer bill? Well, I saw it happen in person and if you argue that it didn't you are crazy. Every no planer is crazy.
 
arguments from incredulity highlighted in red. again

Just for completemess and context let's restore the links you deleted.

Now that it is established that there was a SHATTERING impact from these witness statements let's have a look at the video evidence. Watch this video through from about 50 seconds and see the plane strike he building. Do you see any kind of shockwave ? Select any point where you would expect to see some reaction of the building to the brute force of the impact. Did the left engine hit first ? If so why did we see no rotation of the tail ?
Given he power of the impact that made the building sway , why did the plane not burst on impact ? How did the delicate nose penetrate steel box columns without deforming ?
(had to restore this to contextualise the links)

http://nomoregames.net/presentations...e0045_image034 Nose Cone
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JPR0h...ed%20%20%205-6
Bill, Stop being profoundly ignorant. You are in way over your head here.The tail of the plane isn't going to make a sudden turn because one engine may contact the structure before the first. at 540 mph Ever hear of inertia bill? And when have you seen a flame front from a fireball propagate faster than 540 mph? especially reverse of the planes direction? And do you really expect to see a shock wave of less than two percent from a video?
 
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Are you a no planer bill? Well, I saw it happen in person and if you argue that it didn't you are crazy. Every no planer is crazy.

I don't claim no-planes because it eems more logical that they would hhave used real planes. Still, many factors including the post you are eplying to point to a no-plane scenario. So I don't claim anything and just examine the evidence and wherever it lead, it leads.
 

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