Molten Steel

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The wire shorted out and you are engaging in sophistry.

No, I am pretty sure it is called metallugy or something like that.
It you had understood the article, you would realice that such "nitpicking" was important to determine the reason for a fire.

I don´t know why they failed to mention the termite that changed the structure of the cobber.
 
NIST did not explain how this happened. They left it out of the Final report because the only explanation for the elevator cabs in the hallway is a very large explosion.

That's because the NWO ordered special hush-a-booms -- capable of hurling elevators out of their shafts, yet quiet enough to avoid detection, and delicate enough to avoid shattering every window in the entire building including those of buildings immediately around it. ;)
They had to use these special explosives because they could not be sure that the thermite would bring the building down at just the right time

Q: Can steel framed buildings just burn down?
A: Oh, most certainly Brian. It really happens all the time.

This is not true. There has never been a total collapse of a high rise steel frame building. There is only known partial collapse and that occurred over the space of an hour in a building that looked like a torch.

Christopher7 tell me, do first times ever happen in the world you live in?m Or are first times considered Holy taboo?


The evidence was destroyed.
Is this why some conspiracy groups like to manufacture it? Sites like Whatreallyhappened apparently feel there's a need to brandish manufactured material, and they aren't the only ones who have used such material. What does that say about your evidence, if there was any to begin with?

Thermite.

Please :rolleyes:
There are numerous credible witnesses.

But there's a problem Christopher... thermite doesn't burn for weeks, and steel ain't gonna remain liquid for several months. You forget so easily after being reminded of this little predicament several thousand times. Unfortunately the witness statements and the physical capabilities of thermite must run hand in hand in order to state such a conclusion as you're proposing.

Tell me, is there a special brand of thermite I should be looking to buy next time I demolish a building? Perhaps one that's utterly invincible and perhaps having one of those special NWO ignition extensions? Surely you would know where I could find such a model?
 
C7 said:
NIST did not explain how this happened. They left it out of the Final report because the only explanation for the elevator cabs in the hallway is a very large explosion.
That's because the NWO ordered special hush-a-booms -- capable of hurling elevators out of their shafts
So that's what ejected the elevators. :eek: You should let NIST know. They did not explain how the elevator cars were ejected into the hallway.

But there's a problem Christopher... thermite doesn't burn for weeks, and steel ain't gonna remain liquid for several months.
You are denying what the witnesses said.
 
So that's what ejected the elevators. :eek: You should let NIST know. They did not explain how the elevator cars were ejected into the hallway.

So what do *you* believe did it? Thermite doesn't propel anything and nobody heard explosions consistent with man-made demolition.
 
So what do *you* believe did it?
Read this again and see if you can answer your stupid question for yourself.
NIST did not explain how this happened. They left it out of the Final report because the only explanation for the elevator cabs in the hallway is a very large explosion.
The point your are not dealing with is:

NIST did not explain what ejected the elevators into the hallway.
 
You are denying what the witnesses said.

Grizzly did not say that and you failed to respond to the passage he wrote. Here it is again IN FULL, please have the courtesy to respond in full, rather than cherry pick selective bits and ignore things that make you question your conclusions.

But there's a problem Christopher... thermite doesn't burn for weeks, and steel ain't gonna remain liquid for several months. You forget so easily after being reminded of this little predicament several thousand times. Unfortunately the witness statements and the physical capabilities of thermite must run hand in hand in order to state such a conclusion as you're proposing.

Bit like this post that you completely ignored.

let me get this straight.

You think that somebody went into not one , not two, not three but four ( remember the molten metal observed under WTC 6 ) fully occupied buildings in the centre of New York prior to Sept 11th and planted so much thermite that six weeks after it was ignited it was still active and keeping tons of metal molten ?

Well ?
 
Read this again and see if you can answer your stupid question for yourself.
The point your are not dealing with is:

NIST did not explain what ejected the elevators into the hallway.

Maybe we'll never know. Reality is funny like that.

We do know that there are no unknowns about the collapse of WTC7 need fixing in order to understand the basic collapse mechanism or that that can be fixed by the application of thermite or any man-made demolition.
 
Well ventilated office fires burn at 1000°C. Fires in a debris pile would be oxygen starved and would not burn anywhere near that hot.

They burn higher than that and you have been shown this. The steel was seen to have been exposed to temps of 700 to 800 deg C.

Its in the NIST report.
 
C7 said:
There are numerous credible witnesses.
Griz said:
But there's a problem Christopher... thermite doesn't burn for weeks, and steel ain't gonna remain liquid for several months.
C7 said:
You are denying what the witnesses said.
Grizzly did not say that
Please :boggled:


you failed to respond to the passage he wrote. Here it is again IN FULL, please have the courtesy to respond in full, rather than cherry pick selective bits and ignore things that make you question your conclusions.
Griz said:
Unfortunately the witness statements and the physical capabilities of thermite must run hand in hand in order to state such a conclusion as you're proposing.
This is just more denial and misstatement. I am not proposing a conclusion, I'm quoting witnesses.

Your next question is just am attempt to change the subject which is:

NIST did not explain how this happened. They left it out of the Final report because the only explanation for the elevator cabs in the hallway is a very large explosion.
 
Please :boggled:


This is just more denial and misstatement. I am not proposing a conclusion, I'm quoting witnesses.

Your next question is just am attempt to change the subject which is:

NIST did not explain how this happened. They left it out of the Final report because the only explanation for the elevator cabs in the hallway is a very large explosion.

It is not denial Chris, it is reality, it is your reality, the reality you want everybody else to buy into.

The reality of the matter is that if thermite brought down these buildings and kept metal molten by the ton, for weeks and weeks afterwards, then somebody went into four fully occupied buildings in the middle of New York, prior to Sept 11th and planted it all, a great amount of it all.

So, Chris, why are you suddenly uncomfortable with your reality? Why will you not admit this is what you believe happened?
Can you not see the reality of what you are proposing?

It is after all your reality.

Edit, the subject of this thread is molten metal, something you keep screaming about, so save your attempts to dictate what is and is not to be discussed.

Oh, Chris selective quoting doesn't help, everybody can read exacty what was said.
 
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Unfortunately the witness statements and the physical capabilities of thermite must run hand in hand in order to state such a conclusion as you're proposing.

The section you seem to be having trouble wrapping your fingers around. Apparently handing it to you on a silver platter still does not improve your reading comprehension.... sad...

Your argument requires that thermite be able to react after having a building collapse on top of it all, and then burning for months. Thermite's contraints prevent it from ever being capable of such feats. Sorry... I don't think the witnesses lied thermite simply isn't supported meaning thermite is but a fantasy you dreampt up one night while sleeping.


This is just more denial and misstatement. I am not proposing a conclusion, I'm quoting witnesses.
I suspect your reading comprehension problems are worse then even my own conservative optimism. You're claiming that thermite is the only possibility no? Well once you find a brand that survives a building collapse and can burn and melt steel for several months straight you'll have me sold! Otherwise you're pushing two subsets -- one a blatant misrepresentation of witness statements -- the other a statement from ignorance -- neither of which can be connected together, and never will be.
 
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Well ventilated office fires burn at 1000°C. Fires in a debris pile would be oxygen starved and would not burn anywhere near that hot.
They burn higher than that
Wrong!
Fires in a debris pile would be oxygen starved and could not burn anywhere near 1000[FONT=&quot]°[/FONT]C.
you have been shown this.
Not so.

The steel was seen to have been exposed to temps of 700 to 800 deg C. Its in the NIST report.
You are referring to Sample #2. Sample #1 was exposed to temperatures approaching 1000[FONT=&quot]°[/FONT]C.
 
It is not denial Chris, it is reality, it is your reality, the reality you want everybody else to buy into.
You refuse to deal with this reality:

NIST did not explain how this happened. They left it out of the Final report because the only explanation for the elevator cabs in the hallway is a very large explosion.


The reality of the matter is that if thermite brought down these buildings and kept metal molten by the ton, for weeks and weeks afterwards, then somebody went into four fully occupied buildings in the middle of New York, prior to Sept 11th and planted it all, a great amount of it all.
The proof is in the result, your personal incredulity notwithstanding.

You sidestep and/or ignore all evidence of CD and whine about how it could not be because.

This is just denial.
 
Metal Processing Institute, WPI

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I'd like to see a microscopic examination of steel that we know was attacked with therm*te.
 
You refuse to deal with this reality:

NIST did not explain how this happened. They left it out of the Final report because the only explanation for the elevator cabs in the hallway is a very large explosion.


The proof is in the result, your personal incredulity notwithstanding.

You sidestep and/or ignore all evidence of CD and whine about how it could not be because.

This is just denial.

So Chris somebody went into four fully occupied buildings prior to Sept 11th and planted so much thermite that it not only brought them down but remained active and kept tons of metal molten for weeks and weeks afterwards?

Didn't you just say

I am not proposing a conclusion,
?

Yet you now post
The proof is in the result, your personal incredulity notwithstanding.

You sidestep and/or ignore all evidence of CD and whine about how it could not be because.

So since you clearly have now concluded it was a CD, please answer my question.I am more than happy to face reality it is you that seems to have a problem admiting the reality of your conclusions.
 
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Unfortunately the witness statements and the physical capabilities of thermite must run hand in hand in order to state such a conclusion as you're proposing.
IYO, such is not the case.
This is just more denial and misstatement. I am not proposing a conclusion, I'm quoting witnesses.

Your argument requires that thermite be able to react after having a building collapse
Wrong.
You are ignoring/denying what the witnesses said.

You're claiming that thermite is the only possibility
For the melting the steel in the first place.
 
I did not think it necessary to reiterate what were talking about. I did not allow for the fact that I am dealing with sophists who will misinterpret in order to make stupid assertions.

"The hydrogen peroxide etch revealed good grain boundary"
lol - You completely misunderstand. You've only picked out that phrase because it has grain boundary in it but you fail to realise what that means or give the full quote. The whole point of an etchant is to reveal the structure. The etchant does this by chemically attacking the grain boundary in preference to the grain. (boundary has a different composition). Hydrogen peroxide is used for copper, Hydrogen Fluoride (HF - nasty) for Titanium, 2% Nital solution for steels amongst others, http://www.metallographic.com/Etchants/Etchants.htm (Murakami's agent - I've got a good story about that one :))


"A sudden large current flow on the surface for a very short duration could explain the surface heating without causing more uniform thermal conditions through the wire cross-section.

The wire shorted out and you are engaging in sophistry.

We are talking about steel beams and girders, not copper wire that melted due to arcing.

ETA: There is no mention of intergranular melting as in the steel samples.
You obviously don't read anything that is linked or understand that grain boundary melting, liquation and inter-granular melting are all the same thing.

Grain boundary liquation and a eutectic
liquid penetrating the tip of the
wire appear to be very straightforward
evidence for incipient melting.

Secondly the only thing that you require to produce the effect is heat. That was the answer to the question - simple wasn't it?

You see when a metal solidifies it does so at lots and lots of places at once, these grow to form crystals which we call grains. When they meet each other a boundary is formed and this boundary solidifies last. The composition of the boundary is different to that of the grain (see Lever Rule). What solidifies last will melt first. So when you raise the temperature to the melting point of the composition of the boundaries then the boundaries will become liquid. In our case diffusion of oxygen and sulphur into the material further reduces this melting point.

In the case of steel in the WTC 1 + 2 the fires got the steel hot enough to lose half and more of their yield strength (and reduce modulus). The fire would not have been hot enough to produce grain boundary melting (liquation) - see Iron Carbon Phase Diagram.

Now lets talk about Sulphur. If the fires were 1000°C and Sulphur was present as SO2 you might expect highly localised Fe-O-S eutectic, but the fact remains that the mechanism by which Sulphur and Oxygen enter the steel to form the composition is diffusion. Diffusion takes time. So evidence of a eutectic shows that temperatures reached 940°C, but not very likely to have done so in the building fires. Also note that construction steel at 1000°C is going to have about 10% or less of it's yield strength at that temperature compared with room temperature. See Fig 6 - http://mmp.iphy.ac.cn/biz3.bioweb.ne.jp/jim/journal/e/pdf1/42/09/1913.pdf So the over-riding failure factor would be loss of strength and not high temperature corrosion due to oxidation and sulphidation.

That means the only way that the eutectic could form is in the rubble pile so the rubble pile must have gotten to 940°C whether you like it or not.

Thermite would not produce the eutectic so claiming the eutectic as evidence for thermite is wrong because the sulphur in the thermite is used to lower ignition point and would therefore already react with the iron in the thermite before it had a chance to get into the steel - remember diffusion takes a long time Thermite cannot keep liquid steel liquid for 6 weeks unless there is tons and tons of it and the burning of that would be noticeable by everyone beacuse it burns with a very bright flame and lots of white smoke. The activity of getting all that thermite into the building in order to keep so much steel liquid 6 weeks after would be noticed.

Claiming that liquid steel was present 6 weeks later debunks thermite.

This is why the truth movement fails. You keep looking for evidence of a cover up and jump on anything that you think will prove a wacky theory, but because you haven't thought things through and are blinded by your ignorance and prejudice you fail to critically examine your theory. When others do the work for you all you do is claim stupid things like "denial tactic" or shill or some other nonsense.

Thermite is dead in the water.
 
So Chris somebody went into four fully occupied buildings prior to Sept 11th and planted so much thermite that it not only brought them down but remained active and kept tons of metal molten for weeks and weeks afterwards?
Didn't you just say
?
Yet you now post
So since you clearly have now concluded it was a CD, please answer my question.I am more than happy to face reality it is you that seems to have a problem admiting the reality of your conclusions.
You still refuse to deal with this reality:

NIST did not explain how this happened. They left it out of the Final report because the only explanation for the elevator cabs in the hallway is a very large explosion.

Your double talk and misinterpretation of what I said is just a lame diversion.

 
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