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Merged Obama on Leno

GreyICE said:
I get the impression you don't like me because you're wrong a lot and I point it out. True/false?
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False.

I honestly don't have much of an opinion about you one way or the other. Beyond the occasional specatularly brilliant or foolish persona, I don't even really bother to keep score in the various internet slapfights I observe and engage in from day to day. Your handle only really sticks in my mind for as long as the current exchange happens to last.

And no, I don't think it's irrational to expect someone to get through a Leno interview without having anything negative to say about the Special Olympics. Would you care to support your claim that no human could possibly live up to such a standard? (Protip: References to your private internet slapfight scorecard don't really count as support for your claim.)
 
Well this little thread merged into something special.

As for the special olympics gaffe, I'll be more concerned when the frequency and nature of his stupid comments becomes remotely like our former President's. Bush set a low bar and Obama would have to limbo pretty severely to get under it.
 
funk de fino said:
As a non american, non republican, non democrat I would find it interesting to see what would have happened had it been Bush jr? I think the tone of the thread may have been slightly different somewhat?
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Doubtful. Poking fun of a group or club you are clearly a member of gives you certain leeway.
 
Dr Adequate said:
Well, get less indoctrinated

The President is, in the end, a guy doing a job, he's not the Celestial Emperor.

This is one of the things that I find unnerving about Americans. We Brits manage to split it: the Queen is the Head of State, whom it would be tasteless to say anything bad about, but who has no actual power, whereas the Prime Minister, who actually runs the country, is the Head of Government, whom we hired and can fire.

Americans have combined the two roles, and the result is distinctly odd. Are you guys sure you wouldn't like Queen Elizabeth II to be your constitutional monarch ... no? Well, no harm in asking.
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And when Diana meet her fate, the British stiff upper lip quivered for years. Talk about unnerving!
 
3bodyproblem said:
Doubtful. Poking fun of a group or club you are clearly a member of gives you certain leeway.
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I seem to recall we all spent a lot of time making fun of Bush's clumsiness when speaking. I don't recall there being a lot of examples of him casually indulging in negative stereotypes.

But, hey, who knows? I'd be willing to give each president one or two free passes. Bush did it, Obama did it, now we're even, right?
 
theprestige said:
I seem to recall we all spent a lot of time making fun of Bush's clumsiness when speaking. I don't recall there being a lot of examples of him casually indulging in negative stereotypes.

But, hey, who knows? I'd be willing to give each president one or two free passes. Bush did it, Obama did it, now we're even, right?
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Bush was a negative stereotype. At least for rich, privileged, white guys. :)

Somehow I suspect Bush indulged in negative stereotypes, he just never got caught on national television.

That in no way excuses Obama, or makes them even. It's not a stupidity contest.
 
Cicero said:
And when Diana meet her fate, the British stiff upper lip quivered for years. Talk about unnerving!
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That's a good point.


Wait, I didn't just say that.

In America we DO have our own goddamn "royal family" -- the ****in' Kennedy clan. Our Princess Diana was JFK Jr. whose accomplishments include failing the bar a bunch of times, running a magazine into the ground, and irresponsibly crashing his plane. Sister Caroline recently thought it her birthright to claim a NY Senate seat.
 
Cain said:
That's a good point.


Wait, I didn't just say that.

In America we DO have our own goddamn "royal family" -- the ****in' Kennedy clan. Our Princess Diana was JFK Jr. whose accomplishments include failing the bar a bunch of times, running a magazine into the ground, and irresponsibly crashing his plane. Sister Caroline recently thought it her birthright to claim a NY Senate seat.
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Camelot Caroline's campaign collapse ( http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=131731) finally drove the stake through the Kennedy mystique. But other than the people who worked for George Magazine, his mourners amounted to the Kennedy family and professional Kennedy apologists, Sorensen and Schlesinger, the Thames was in danger of flooding London with the tears of Diana's interminable mourners.
 
GreyICE said:
Why? When Bush made his comment about tirelessly working to destroy America, we may have joked about it a bit, but no one was suggesting that this reflected some fundamental unfitness for president (the reasons he was fundamentally unfit to be president were much less shallow than that).
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I'll let you try and see the difference in the two remarks. I shouldn't have to point it out to you.

GE said:
Now we have people moaning on that Obama isn't Presidential enough because he takes few hours of time off to go on Leno. And honestly, who can blame them? I mean whatever else you wanted to say about Bush, he was noted for his extreme dedication to the Presidency, never taking time off for much of anything.
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I'm not.
 
Robert Wright -- I think fairly -- criticized Obama for making the "cling to guns" comments at the closed, informal meet over in San Fran, not because of the comments themselves but because they indicate a lack of discipline, which is needed from a leader (thank you, Joe Biden).

You have words you use around close friends, friends, acquaintances and strangers. I don't use the c-word in front of students, or my mother. As President you need to put Special Olympics in a similar forbidden break-open-with-tank-in-case-of-emergency category.

Not that this stuff really matters. What matters is the Obama team's incompetence in dealing with the ailing economy in terms of both a public relations and, more importantly, policy. (They're still getting a pass on both counts from the honeymoon effect).
 
I don't care what anyone else thinks I like the fact that Obama speaks like a real human being and not like some conditioned/trained politician who knows only vague non-confrontational talking points. Part of that will be humor, brusqueness and things we might cringe at. It's part of the package but it's one I'm willing to tolerate.
 
We know who Obama is, and most of us with IQs above 90 like what we see in him, perhaps can relate to the things that move him. He makes the same kinds of dumb remarks that most of us do on a occasion, but, at least, people are not dying because he had some bizarre idea of how the world actually works.
 
leftysergeant said:
He makes the same kinds of dumb remarks that
most of us do on a occasion,
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Heh, lemme tall ya, it's gonna be fun harping on every single slip of the tongue His Holiness makes over the next four years. Just like the way you people did to Bush. By the time we have our list of Obamaisms compiled, he won't have to try out for the Special Olympics.

but, at least, people are not dying because he had some bizarre idea of how the world actually works.
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Gonna file that one away for when the first person to die because of something the the anointed one buggered up.
 
"There is no such thing as Democrat or Republican. There is the Robber class and the Robbed class --- that is the great divide in this country."

Cindy Sheehan
 
Sword_Of_Truth said:
Everyones least favorite incestuous necrophiliac. :p

Has she stopped prostituting her dead son for her own personal gain yet or is she still abusing his corpse hoping for another 15 minutes?
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In her campaign to challenge Pelosi for her Senate seat, Sheehan explained her motivation.

"I'm doing it to encourage other people to run against Congress members who aren't doing their jobs, who are beholden to special interests,"

Code Red isn't an SIG? Maybe Sheehan would be tougher on illegal immigration than Pelosi?
 
leftysergeant said:
but, at least, people are not dying because he had some bizarre idea of how the world actually works.
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Yet. Give him time, he's only been on the job a couple of months, fer goodness sakes.

Oh, and if you are going to look for places for people to die thanks to his policy, he's already chosen a cookie cutter strat for Afghanistan, even though his logistics lines are not quite up the force upgrade, yet.

The upgrade in the fight into Pakistan he didn't start, W did, but funnily enough, he has continued it. Apparently with the agreement of some in the Pak government. That open secret about UAV's killing people with impunity from above is setting up an unfavorable symbolic narrative in Pakistan, and a few other places. Long term, I say that gets some more people killed. Most likely due to Pakistan internal strife, perhaps more Americans.

Granted, on that last paragraph, I've seen some evidence in public comment that his strat team is relooking that whole Gordian Knot. Maybe he's going to take some Treebeard advice and not be hasty in implementing his final strat for Afghanistan.

We'll see. As I said in the opener, it's early yet. Losing Freeman's appointment was, IMO, an unfortunate bit of political shrapnel.
 
theprestige said:
His policies are abominable. His political acumen is almost zero. His widely proclaimed "smart diplomacy" is anything but. His loyalty only extends as far as his associates' first public gaffe. And now, it turns out he can't even chat with Jay Leno for a few minutes without resorting to negative stereotypes for comedy purposes.
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I too disagree with Obama fundamentally on most of his domestic policies, but to say he has zero political acumen is silly I think. It seems to me he is a consumate politician and is brilliant at mobilizing people.
 
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