Israeli Apartheid?

[Marc39]

I now see that in a 2008 article on B'Tselem's website, the report on the highway sign situation says nothing about "Jew-Only" signs. The headline, cut and pasted below directly from their website, reads as follows...
B'Tselem: West Bank road for Israelis only - Route 443By: btselem
Posted: Apr 16 08

So, either B'tselem corrected the article, from back in Apr.of 2008, to reflect the reality of the road sign, in fact, NOT being "Jew-Only" or The Prevaricator is prevaricating again about the source of the original [incorrect] information he dispensed. Which is it?

 

[Thunder]

I now see that in a 2008 article on B'Tselem's website, the report on the highway sign situation says nothing about "Jew-Only" signs. The headline, cut and pasted below directly from their website, reads as follows...
B'Tselem: West Bank road for Israelis only - Route 443By: btselem
Posted: Apr 16 08

So, either B'tselem corrected the article, from back in Apr.of 2008, to reflect the reality of the road sign, in fact, NOT being "Jew-Only" or The Prevaricator is prevaricating again about the source of the original [incorrect] information he dispensed. Which is it?

Israel allows racism. Nations that allow racism and discrimination when it comes to school, housing, and jobs, are Apartheid states.

 

[Thunder]

Time and time again we show the atrocities and persecutions committed by the Zionist Agenda and time and time again the Zionist apologists squirm in a hovel of denials, deflections and lies.

The Judeo-fascist here at JREF will lie, deny, deflect, and stomp his feet till the cows come home. Then, when we cannot deny any more, he will call us all..anti-Semites.

And after that, he will yell "God Wills It!!!"

I remember watching a Youtube video that a bunch of right-wing Zionists made, walking around an anti-Israel march. They kept asking people why they hated Israel. At one point, after someone confronted them on their right-wing racist views, they simply responded with "read your Bible".

 

[Tin Foil Timothy]

Does it not bother you at all, that Israel's racism and rampant discrimination, and their pathetic justifications for it (God gave the Jews the land, the Holocaust gives the Jews the right to defend themselves in any way they see fit, etc)

...make the collective Jewish people look like a bunch of racist hypocrites?

How can we justify demanding that the world honor, remember, and pay for our suffering at the hands of racists and fascists, when we deny and excuse our own racist and discriminatory actions?

The Tanakh is full of stories of the Jewish people arrogantly disobeying God, holding up false idols, and becoming arrogant. We are punished by God for these actions, time and time again.

I fear, we have still not learned this 2,500 year old lesson..and are doomed to repeat it.

I would have a little more respect for the Zionist Agenda is it was actually honest about it's agenda.

Instead we see, time and time again, blatant lies ...

"There is no humanitarian crisi in gaza" - Tzipi Livni

"it's Hamas fault that civilians get killed" - Israeli spokesperson Mark Regev

"The IDF is the moral army in the world" - Ehus barak

"There is no apartheid in the West Bank - Various Apologists

"There is no evidence of Israeli war crimes " - 'Marc39'

and so it goes on and on and on.

time and time again Israel paints itself as a victim. it indoctrinates it's citizens that it's a victim. it terrorizes and then paints those who fight back as terrorists

Lies Lies Lies Lies Lies.


But despite this the world is waking up to te Atrocities and immoral behavior. Even Israeli media like Hareetz is reporting it.

Remember that Israel is a highly protected country in the eyes f the Western media and still it's starting to be more and more condemned.

Can you imagine the Western Media outcry if Israel was a country the West wasn't supportive of like Iraq, Iran, Venezuela, Cuba, Russia, etc,etc - Israel would have been invaded and a puppet government installed.

 

[Thunder]

Can you imagine the Western Media outcry if Israel was a country the West wasn't supportive of like Iraq, Iran, Venezuela, Cuba, Russia, etc,etc - Israel would have been invaded and a puppet government installed.

And yet, we have still not invaded Sudan or China or Russia.

In fact, we have Most Favored Nation trade status with China.

Lesson? Money talks..and human rights walks.

But anyways, if Israel does not soon end its racist policies, they will surely be destroyed within the next 50 years. Either from an outside enemy, or from civil war.

Israel has ONE hope for survival: End the state-sanctioned racism and leave the West Bank and Arab East Jerusalem.

 

[Tin Foil Timothy]

Israel has ONE hope for survival: End the state-sanctioned racism and leave the West Bank and Arab East Jerusalem.

Won't happen.

 

[Thunder]

Won't happen.

Not unless Israeli Jews are suddenly taken over by a wave of humanity and liberalism.

So yes, Israel is doomed. That's why I am staying right here in the USA.

I sometimes wonder if democracy and pluralism is even compatible with Judaism. With Israel's behavior over the last 60 years, I really do wonder.

Maybe the answer is NO state that is dominated by religion and nationalism is compatible with democracy and pluralism.

 

[Tin Foil Timothy]

Not unless Israeli Jews are suddenly taken over by a wave of humanity and liberalism.

So yes, Israel is doomed. That's why I am staying right here in the USA.

I think many Israelis would like to shed the racist Zionist Agenda. The problem is the balance of power prevents them.

I sometimes wonder if democracy and pluralism is even compatible with Judaism. With Israel's behavior over the last 60 years, I really do wonder.

Maybe the answer is NO state that is dominated by religion and nationalism is compatible with democracy and pluralism.

I wouldn't aergue with that.

 

[Thunder]

I think many Israelis would like to shed the racist Zionist Agenda. The problem is the balance of power prevents them.

Thousands of Israelis support Meretz, ACRI, Peace Now, the New Israel Fund, Gush Shalom, and all the other liberal and peace groups in Israel. If they were in charge, racism would no longer be sanctioned by Israel, the settlements would be abandoned, and there would be a Palestinian state in the West Bank, Gaza, and East Jerusalem.

But sadly, the religous right and Judeo-fascists in Israel outnumber and outpower them. Plus they get tens of millions of dollars in aid from the USA and Britain.

Human rights and freedom do have allies in Israel, but we are weak and need help. It would be very helpful if the Palestinians abandoned violence, but they are not likely to do so.

It is a recipe for perpetual war, tears, and blood.

 

[Marc39]

I would have a little more respect for the Zionist Agenda is it was actually honest about it's agenda.

Instead we see, time and time again, blatant lies ...

"There is no humanitarian crisi in gaza" - Tzipi Livni

"it's Hamas fault that civilians get killed" - Israeli spokesperson Mark Regev

"The IDF is the moral army in the world" - Ehus barak

"There is no apartheid in the West Bank - Various Apologists

"There is no evidence of Israeli war crimes " - 'Marc39'

and so it goes on and on and on.

time and time again Israel paints itself as a victim. it indoctrinates it's citizens that it's a victim. it terrorizes and then paints those who fight back as terrorists

Lies Lies Lies Lies Lies.


But despite this the world is waking up to te Atrocities and immoral behavior. Even Israeli media like Hareetz is reporting it.

"Um, uh, um, er, uh, um, er, I don't actually know what a war crime is, I just like how it sounds, heh heh" Tin Foil Timothy

 

[Marc39]

I think many Israelis would like to shed the racist Zionist Agenda. The problem is the balance of power prevents them.




I wouldn't aergue with that.

Actually, an overwhelming majority of Israeli Jews supported the IDF's incursion into Gaza, so, wrong again, Socrates. You'll also be disheartened to know that recent polls of Americans reflect disapproval of a Palestinian state. I wonder why, the Palestinians are such charming, peace-loving people.

 

[Tin Foil Timothy]

I think many Israelis would like to shed the racist Zionist Agenda. The problem is the balance of power prevents them.

Actually, an overwhelming majority of Israeli Jews supported the IDF's incursion into Gaza, so, wrong again, Socrates. You'll also be disheartened to know that recent polls of Americans reflect disapproval of a Palestinian state. I wonder why, the Palestinians are such charming, peace-loving people.

You're too busy fabricating your own nonsense that you didn't even bother to read my post.

Read it again and come back and tell us where I said the majority of Israelis would like to shed the racist Zionist Agenda. Youpost aboveactually agrees with me.

And given the level of Zionist propaganda in America it's hardly surpring what American polls say.

Once again you have made yourself look foolish. Amazing that despite that you come back for more ridicule.

 

[D'rok]

For those taking the no-apartheid position, is it an zero sum question for you? In other words, do you reject the apartheid classification because it is not the right term, or do you reject it because there is no systematic abuse of human rights by the Israeli government at all?

 

[Marc39]

For those taking the no-apartheid position, is it an zero sum question for you? In other words, do you reject the apartheid classification because it is not the right term, or do you reject it because there is no systematic abuse of human rights by the Israeli government at all?

There's a whole lot of disingenuousness surrounding the apartheid Israel disinformation program, which is the latest in a long series of libels hurled at Israel in an effort to demonize, marginalize and, finally, destroy Israel. The level of raw, visceral hatred directed at Israel is quite breathtaking and apartheid is merely a pretext for justifying people's animosity toward Israel. At first, Israel, itself, was accused of apartheid, but, when that didn't fly, principally due to Israel's history of advocating human rights and being the only democracy in the region, the detractors had to figure out another approach for vilifying Israel: Hey, let's throw the "Israel has apartheid in the West Bank" plate of spaghetti against the wall and see what sticks. Bingo! It's sticking, although, much like the spaghetti against the wall, false and defamatory linkage of apartheid and Israel is very distasteful.

 

[D'rok]

There's a whole lot of disingenuousness surrounding the apartheid Israel disinformation program, which is the latest in a long series of libels hurled at Israel in an effort to demonize, marginalize and, finally, destroy Israel. The level of raw, visceral hatred directed at Israel is quite breathtaking and apartheid is merely a pretext for justifying people's animosity toward Israel. At first, Israel, itself, was accused of apartheid, but, when that didn't fly, principally due to Israel's history of advocating human rights and being the only democracy in the region, the detractors had to figure out another approach for vilifying Israel: Hey, let's throw the "Israel has apartheid in the West Bank" plate of spaghetti against the wall and see what sticks. Bingo! It's sticking, although, much like the spaghetti against the wall, false and defamatory linkage of apartheid and Israel is very distasteful.

I'm not sure that really answers my question. I get that you reject the apartheid label. I get that using the term is an attempt to frame the issue in a certain inflammatory way. What I don't get is whether or not you reject the term because it is an inaccurate framing of human rights abuses by the Israeli government, or because you take the position that there are no systematic humans rights abuses by the Israeli government.

Reading between the lines, you seem to be taking the latter position. I'm not sure that is defensible.

Of course, your opponents are taking a position that is just as intractable and indefensible. Sadly, this seems to be a reflection of the real conflict on the ground.

 

[Marc39]

I'm not sure that really answers my question. I get that you reject the apartheid label. I get that using the term is an attempt to frame the issue in a certain inflammatory way. What I don't get is whether or not you reject the term because it is an inaccurate framing of human rights abuses by the Israeli government, or because you take the position that there are no systematic humans rights abuses by the Israeli government.

Reading between the lines, you seem to be taking the latter position. I'm not sure that is defensible.

Of course, your opponents are taking a position that is just as intractable and indefensible. Sadly, this seems to be a reflection of the real conflict on the ground.

I provided some context. If you need a more abbreviated response: No.

 

[D'rok]

I provided some context. If you need a more abbreviated response: No.

OK. Just checking to see if there was any room for discussion.

 

[Marc39]

OK. Just checking to see if there was any room for discussion.

Never at a loss for words. Anyone who believes anything even close to apartheid exists in the West Bank (Gaza used to be called apartheid, too, but, when Israel withdrew from Gaza, it punched a hole in that apartheid balloon) is lacking a true appreciation for the horrors of apartheid and probably has never been to the West Bank. Ask yourself a simple
question: If Israel truly wanted to impose apartheid on Arabs, why just in the West Bank and not in Israel, itself?

 

[Tin Foil Timothy]

I'm not sure that really answers my question. I get that you reject the apartheid label. I get that using the term is an attempt to frame the issue in a certain inflammatory way. What I don't get is whether or not you reject the term because it is an inaccurate framing of human rights abuses by the Israeli government, or because you take the position that there are no systematic humans rights abuses by the Israeli government.

Reading between the lines, you seem to be taking the latter position. I'm not sure that is defensible.

Of course, your opponents are taking a position that is just as intractable and indefensible. Sadly, this seems to be a reflection of the real conflict on the ground.

Yes he most certainly is. Marc39 is an Israeli Atrocity denier and an Israeli Apartheid Denier.


The question of calling it Apartheid for inflammatory reasons. On the contrary. There's no need to inflame something that inflames itself by it's sheer abhorrence.

But if we like we can always use the term 'racism' instead.

 

[Tin Foil Timothy]

OK. Just checking to see if there was any room for discussion.

hey D'rok ...

You asked a legitimate question ...

For those taking the no-apartheid position, is it an zero sum question for you? In other words, do you reject the apartheid classification because it is not the right term, or do you reject it because there is no systematic abuse of human rights by the Israeli government at all?

... to which the answer could be one of to positions.

Marc39, after his propaganda rhetoric, simply answers "no"

I guess we can assume "no" means both 'no apartheid' and 'no systematic abuse of human rights by the Israeli government'

And this proves why this guy is delusional.