So Why Is The Gospel Still An Offense?

[MIKILLINI]

Kathy, you are not reading the other posts here very carefully, judging by your responses.

Didn't you ever wonder why God would place a tree of knowledge in the Garden of Eden?
Why would a loving God place something so destructive within reach of his own creation?
Why would a loving God not warn his new creations about his "worst" creation, Lucifer?
Why would an all-knowing and loving God, who hates sin, place the availability of failure and sin within reach of his human creations?
How can you call that scenario wise?

 

[GeeMack]

Sorry I do not know what % may be truly saved Christians.But Jesus did say narrow is the way and few will find it. I do get sad when I realize this and it does appear more humans who were born will not be in heaven. I'm thinking that if God has 2/3rds of the angels who did not rebel then he may save 1/3rd of the human race. At least I hope at least that many can be but I am afraid it does not look good. That is why I must speak about Jesus in hopes he may reach some more before it's too late. Everyday we hear of lives being lost and all I can hope is some know Christ. It does matter for eternity but I'll let you decide.

Okay, I see. You think your god is a pussy and can't take care of business all by itself.

 

[Elizabeth I]

I certainly do not like some of what God allows but I attribute much of it that he lets us all reap what we have sown to some capacity.

How can you write stuff like that and then ask the question in the OP? It is not the gospel we find repellent, it is people like you. Tell me:

What had my 10-year-old cousin sown that he reaped death by liver cancer?

What had my 3-year-old brother sown that he reaped death by automobile?

What had my co-worker's newborn sown that he reaped death due to congenital defects only hours after being delivered?

Look above at what you wrote and if it does not make you writhe in shame when confronted with these examples and others people have posted in this thread and other threads where you have shown your disgusting online persona, then you are the one who is irredemptible.

No I only pray to Jesus since he is the only one who we are told in scripture to pray to.

Haven't gotten to Matthew 6:9 yet in your trek through the Bible?

After this manner therefore pray ye: Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name.

Doesn't look like he says to pray, "Dear me which art in heaven..."

Are you idolatrous like all those Mary-worshippers?

 

[kurious_kathy]

A close reading of the Gospels would suggest that Jesus is not preaching tolerance and understanding...he is preaching direct, flawless, un-adulterated adherence to his version of God and God's truth. Any deviation from that "truth" lands one in the lake of fire, as it were. Christians who have followed a bloody path are merely acting out the core dictates of their beliefs. God is intolerant of sin and of sinners. You are either with god or against god.

I prefer to think of it as either we agree with God or we don't. He gave everyone free will to choose. Woudln't you agree this is still what it comes down to?

 

[kurious_kathy]

There is nothing offensive about someone being cruelly murdered for suggesting that it might be a better world if people were less judgemental and considered the needs of others. That religious people were offended by such a message and had him killed is of course in itself offensive.

It is also offensive that this message of tolerance and understanding was twisted into some bizarre new religion which became as intolerant and as dogmatic as the one that executed him in the first place and then happily tortured and murdered its way through history: executing horribly anyone that disagreed with the new dogma.

It is not the person but all the religious trappings, buzz words and dogma that are offensive. One does not need miracles, and special word formulae to see that being kind to someone who needs help makes the world a better place. However, such a simple gospel is deemed folly by the religious and in its place they put the intangible and hurdles for people to jump. They seek to shut the gate on those they disapprove of

Okay so when you say the gospel is deemed folley isn't that exactly what the Bible teaches? I recall a verse that says as I stated in the first post "The message of the cross is only foolishness to those who are perishing." So is that why the gospel is offensive to people? It seems to be the bottomline but many share differnet views so I am trying to stay open to research this topic more. I guess I will be asking this question till the day I die. Why?

We are told that Chrits's followers one day will receive a new name in heaven and I anticipate my new name will be something like "Whynette" because I ask why all the time. I hope the Lord won't get tired of my asking but there is so much to question in life and I get astounded by all he has created, especially people. I really do love people but I have found more do not like me now that I am a Christian. Is it just because I can't quit talking about Jesus or is it that I have a horrible personality?

 

[Macoy]

I prefer to think of it as either we agree with God or we don't. He gave everyone free will to choose. Woudln't you agree this is still what it comes down to?

High five, God!

 

[kurious_kathy]

Why am I here?

Shooting fish in a barrel may blow off some steam, but it's not good for the psyche.

These kinds of threads bring out the worst in me.

Time to unsubscribe.

That's okay Piggy I understand, my stomach ties up in knots often too. I hope you are doing well just the same. Take Care!

 

[kurious_kathy]

Oh, man, I leave the forum for months and Kurious Kathy is still popping up? Some things never change.

Sorry but I hope things can change and that some of you will have ears to hear.

 

[HeyLeroy]

Kathy, I have a few questions that I'd like answered before committing myself to Christianity.

1) According to my understanding of Luke 1:31, Mary was warned ("You will be with child and give birth to a son") she'd be impregnated (by the Holy Spirit, no less; not God [Luke 1:35 - "The angel answered, "The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you. So the holy one to be born will be called the Son of God.]); there's no mention that she gave consent.

Is rape wrong?

1. 38"I am the Lord's servant," Mary answered. "May it be to me as you have said." Then the angel left her. Seems pretty clear to me Mary gave her consent.

Wouldn't that mean that Jesus was born out of wedlock, as Mary and Jehovah weren't technically married?

2) But wait... according to Revelation 22:16 - "I, Jesus, have sent my angel to give you this testimony for the churches. I am the Root and the Offspring of David, and the bright Morning Star."

Mary wasn't a descendent of David; Joseph was. If Jesus was the blood-offspring of Joseph, how could he have been sired by God?

2. Mary and Jospeph were both descendents of the house of Daivd.

How do we know? Matthew and Luke describe differing genealogies. Which one is right and wich one is wrong? One has to be correct; therefore the other has to be incorrect. Which is right, and why?

3) How do I know if I'm not already damned to hell? Maybe I'm one of the people God's chosen to harden:

Romans 9:15-23

For he says to Moses, "I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion." It does not, therefore, depend on man's desire or effort, but on God's mercy. For the Scripture says to Pharaoh: "I raised you up for this very purpose, that I might display my power in you and that my name might be proclaimed in all the earth." Therefore God has mercy on whom he wants to have mercy, and he hardens whom he wants to harden.

One of you will say to me: "Then why does God still blame us? For who resists his will?" But who are you, O man, to talk back to God? "Shall what is formed say to him who formed it, 'Why did you make me like this?' "Does not the potter have the right to make out of the same lump of clay some pottery for noble purposes and some for common use?

What if God, choosing to show his wrath and make his power known, bore with great patience the objects of his wrath—prepared for destruction? What if he did this to make the riches of his glory known to the objects of his mercy, whom he prepared in advance for glory—

I mean, I could miss a lot of Sunday football attending church and still miss the bus, right?

3. It's not going to church that saves someone but if we are in the faith then we are told to attend to have fellowship and build eachother up in our faith.

Thanks for trying to answer this since it's not a question on the gospels.

Unfortunately you seem to have missed the point of my question, which is this: how can I know that I'm not one of those people that God has chosen to have a hardened heart? Were that the case, I could pray and pray and pray, never sin, follow both versions of the Ten Commandments and still be smellin' the sulphur when I croak, right?

4) Is Judas Iscariot in Heaven? I mean, he was just a pawn, right? Someone had to fink Jesus out to the Romans for the prophecy to be true. Jesus volunteered, Judas was just the cosmic scapegoat. If Judas is in Hell, roasting for eternity, why shouldn't we pray to him instead? Jesus just suffered for a few hours on the cross and only three days in Hell.

4. Judas (sorry) was apostate and turned from Jesus so yes I would say he is in hell wishing he had not loved money more than God.

I think you missed the point of the question. Jesus was a volunteer, Judas wasn't. Why was Judas damned at all? Why did anyone have to be damned to fulfill Jesus' death-wish?

5) If Jesus and Jehovah are one and the same (John 10:30 "I and the Father are one."), why did Jesus have to pray (Matthew 26:39 Going a little farther, he fell with his face to the ground and prayed, "My Father, if it is possible, may this cup be taken from me. Yet not as I will, but as you will.")?

5. Well Jesus already knew the suffering he would have to endure so don't you think that's normal to want to ask God the Father if there could have been another way? Also I do not think anyone but Jesus could have found the strength to go to that cross afterall he did nothing to deserve punishment, we did. We are the ones who put Jesus on that cross. Can you see that?

Unfortunately, no. Why did He have to pray to Himself?

As to having done "nothing to deserve punishment", He would've known the laws of the day. If disturbing the peace was punishable by death (and that appears to be what happened) He knew full well that His actions would lead to crucifixion. This goes back to the question of why Judas had to be damned when he was just fulfilling his cosmic role.

6) What do you think about Matthew 6:5-6 ("And when you pray, do not be like the hypocrites, for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the street corners to be seen by men. I tell you the truth, they have received their reward in full. But when you pray, go into your room, close the door and pray to your Father, who is unseen. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you.")?

6. I never did care for praying outloud but sometimes I guess it is needed. Jesus was confronting some peoples expressing faith but it was only an outward expression they probably were quilty of non belief? This is just my opinion of course but God does not want phony's.

Then unfortunately your opinion defies scripture, I guess.

7) How did Christianity even ever spring up around a guy named Jesus, when according to Isaiah 7:14 - "Therefore the Lord himself will give you a sign: The virgin will be with child and will give birth to a son, and will call him Immanuel."? This is even supported by Matthew 1:22 -

All this took place to fulfill what the Lord had said through the prophet: "The virgin will be with child and will give birth to a son, and they will call him Immanuel"—which means, "God with us."

7. We have many names for God in the Bible but Jesus is the one foretold in scripture so when he came and fullfilled all those prophesies which makes Jesus's name above all names. Christianity is all about Him! Does this answer your question?

I've just shown you two examples where scripture foretold that the Son of God was to be called Immanuel, so unfortunately that doesn't, really.

Indeed, I can't really find any place in the New Testament where Jesus actually claimed to be the Son of God! It's kinda weird, really; when He was asked directly if He were the Son of God, He said He was the son of man! Indeed, He said that quite a lot. At one point He referrred to Himself as a son of God, but really, every Jew in Israel considered themself a son or daughter of God. They were the Chosen People, right?

It's almost a Monty Python sketch:

Stranger: Bill, are you the son of Randy?

Bill: No, I'm the son of Stan.

Stranger (yelling): HE'S THE SON OF RANDY!!!

 

[Akhenaten]

<snip>


Pharoh was the one who brought that curse on his people.

His mythical, mispelled Majesty did what?

What is this curse of which you speak, Hebrew? My people know nothing of it.

God was just trying to free his people fron the evil egyptians who made tem slaves and since pharoh did not cooperate he was the one responsible.

Evil Egyptians ?!eleven!? This affront shall not stand. Make ready your chariots, Hebrew, and prepare your companies. The Divisions of Amun, Ptah, Seth and Re stand ready to avenge this wrong.

God has the right to choose how he wants to deal with people.

As does the Aten. Also, he is visible, regular as clockwork in his appearances and actually does stuff to people. Beat that, upstart.

I don't think anyone likes death but everyone will surely face it. Why do you think we die?

Usually because of Hittites, and those pesky Hyksos fellows. There was a rumour about a mass drowning in the Red Sea, but it turned out to be an Akhet Day prank by some university students.

Anyway, we don't all die:

Near, far, wherever you are
I believe that the ka does go on
Once more you open the door
And you're here in my heart
And my ka will go on and on ​

Nepherkheperure Waenre

ETA: Hey! I just noticed that it's Sunday. Where do you suppose that whole thing came from, hmm?​

 

[kurious_kathy]

Those who believe in justice don't try to escape it.

Well I think you should rethink your stance on this one. No one wants to face the white throne of justice. That day will not be fun and I just hope I do not have to face some of the people I have hurt or that have hurt me, especially my gramps. People just do not realize how much damage can happen to a person if they have been a vicitim of a pedophile. It takes a supernatural kind of love to forgive these guys too and I can only forgive these guys through Christ who forgave me. And I'm not referring to when I was a victim but when I grew up and became a pretty worldly woman. I guess I confused love for something else for along time?

And I am not saying I think these pedophile guys should be free to roam the streets either. They need to be put away where they cannot touch another person like that. My gramps died before he was found out or I would have expected him to go to jail and hopefully he would have repented but unfortunately he died when I was still quite young. Why some of these types of predators never repent is beyond my understanding too. How can they not know what they are doing is wrong and evil? Sorry I am rambling but having conversations here stirs up alot in me. I am very familiar with the affects of vicitimisation and suffering but I do NOT blame it on God. He's the one that will repay a man evil for evil or good for good but if you are claiming to be good on your own merit it does not work. We can only avoid Gods judgement through accepting Christ, there is no other way.

 

[HansMustermann]

Heh. You know, the irony is that at least one hypothesis is that Moses got the monotheism idea from Akhenaten

 

[Akhenaten]

Heh. You know, the irony is that at least one hypothesis is that Moses got the monotheism idea from Akhenaten

Oh hell yes I do! It will probably come up, although I may be on someone's ignore list.

 

[kurious_kathy]

Tell me Kathy, what are you going to do forever - the same old prayers, and halo's and harps, and chatting to Jesus will probably become a bit boring after the first Trillion years. And given that there will be, apparently, no sex in your heaven, you do not even have that as a sideline.

Norm

That's an easy one,hopefully all the things I never got enough time to do in this lifetime. I have so many dreams and desires (mostly pertaining to being creative and athletic) that I just never got the chance to do in this lifetime but now I look forward to getting the opportunity in heaven. Or perhaps by then maybe my desires will change but either way I am looking forward to finding out.

 

[X]

I understand your thinking in humanistic terms as all suffering seems wrong but God has a purpose for everything he allows. I certainly do not like some of what God allows but I attribute much of it that he lets us all reap what we have sown to some capacity.

In other words, you have no good answer, and you know it. You just won't allow yourself to follow that thought through to its conclusion, preferring instead to blindly accept the comforting non-answers of your preacher.


This is related to what I said earlier:
Dogma makes sense if you think it, but not if you think about it.

Pharaoh was the one who brought that curse on his people. God was just trying to free his people from the evil Egyptians who made them slaves and since Pharaoh did not cooperate he was the one responsible. God has the right to choose how he wants to deal with people.

Plainly, you haven't read Exodus in a while.

Exodus 4
²¹ And the LORD said to Moses, "When you go back to Egypt, see that you do before Pharaoh all the miracles that I have put in your power. But I will harden his heart, so that he will not let the people go. ²² Then you shall say to Pharaoh, 'Thus says the LORD, Israel is my firstborn son, ²³ and I say to you, "Let my son go that he may serve me." If you refuse to let him go, behold, I will kill your firstborn son.'"

...and many more mentions of God hardening the Pharaohs heart.
​

The reason Pharaoh did not co-operate was because God made him uncooperative.

If the gospel of Christ wasn't true Satan would not be working so hard to get people not to believe it!!

Hilarity. If you don't know why, I suggest you consider your views of the Qu'ran, the Bhagavad Gita, the book of Mormon, and any other Holy Book you don't happen to believe in. And then consider that fact that we view your precious Bible in the same way.

 

[kurious_kathy]

I find many believers offensive, too. But I hope Kathy is not scared off of this thread. I hope she comes back and answers our questions. I still think this can turn into a productive, or at least interesting, exchange.

Thank You Minarvia, I do not intend to be offensive but I hope some good can come of this conversation too. I do have a hard time getting back to everyone though. If I miss something I apologize. And If I cannot answer someones questions at times I will state that. Many of those questions I may refer someone to where I believe they can find the answers as I have already done so with alwaysbeready.com's website.

 

[truethat]

Ok so let me ask you this. If God lets us reap what we sow then why don't you?

In case you missed it, Most of us are fully aware of what God thinks of us. We get it, we're going to hell.

For some people you are willing to let a person DIE in order to save your ass. For some of us we would not want a man's blood on our hands, we reject the game, we reject the "sacrifice, we reject God's need of a blood sacrifice, we reject all of these things as inherently evil.

If you choose to worship, obey and follow evil, that is up to you Kathy, but the rest of us have said no dice. Human dignity is not something to be trifled with.

I do not accept that an almighty creator needed to execute a fellow human being, be that babies or Jesus, in order to forgive us for our sins.


If God can't find a way to forgive people without murder then **** him. I will not be party to the death of another person in order to save my ass.

I'd rather burn.


Is that clearer?


We all know that we are going to die. For some frightened people they are willing to execute and murder for a chance at the afterlife. For others, we respect the human dignity, however fleeting, however momentary is a greater gift than that of eternal life given by a sadistic evil entity.

Here ya go Kathy, one more time for ya. Care to address this issue?

 

[Akhenaten]

The reason Pharaoh did not co-operate was because God made him uncooperative.

Yeah, that too.


ETA: The Aten smiles on your spelling corrections. see? Take ten Nubians out of Petty Cash for your trouble, Noble Scribe.

 

[kurious_kathy]

No, it's the bigotry against homosexuals, the anti-condom fanaticism that results in an increase in HIV, the anti-abortion fanaticism that leads to people gunning down doctors in their homes and blowing up nurses going to work, it's the right wing hypocrites in the Republican base that want to rewrite history and pass laws that make Falwell, Dobson, and Hagee happy while they take the freedom away from anyone who doesn't believe their god myth, it's the anti-science movement that prefers we all stick our heads in the sand when we see any evidence that contradicts a Bible which BTW, contradicts itself, ....

Should I go on?

But people are not always making good choices, why shouldn't Christians speak up about that? I was once blind to certain things being sin like abortion and I went through that too because in my mind before I got saved if it was legal then it should be okay. Well now I know it's not right in God's eyes so I have had a change of mind and heart. (IN essence I have changed sides) NowI know the devastation that comes from being post abortive and it's never something that doesn't damage a person, never! Sorry I know this battle and it is an ugly one. Yes God gave us free will but killing unborn babies is just ugly and we are accountable for it. I was pro-chocie before I got saved, now I am pro-life and involved in the healing process for post abortive women/ and men. Many men do not talk about it but they go through the pain after an abortion too. Do not kid yourself, abortion is very BAD and to have legalized abortions and have government give money to it is horrible.

Then we must deal with why people think it's a good way to do birth control? It's not. I found out after I was just trying to cover up my sin and God made me deal with it and confess so I can be forgiven. Jesus says if we confess our sins he is faithful to forgive us. Boy do I wish more people were like that instead of throwing it back in your face. I have confessed and know Jesus forgives me but now I know what Godly sorrow is. I can never undo the damage sin has caused me but I have a promise from God that he can and does forgive me. Better to confess now than be judged later!

 

[Neverfly]

Okay so when you say the gospel is deemed folley isn't that exactly what the Bible teaches? I recall a verse that says a...(snip)

In other words, the bible has 2000 years worth of CYA.

Like Sylvia Browne, a claimant needs not demonstrate reality, only backpeddle with "I told you so" claims.


Oldest trick in the book.