So Why Is The Gospel Still An Offense?

[GeeMack]

People die outside of Christ everyday and it is certainly the worst thing that can happen to a person.

Interesting that you claim to know the mind of your god. I heard there were rules against that kind of arrogance.

If I share nothing else that sticks in your minds I hope you'll at least remember I tried to reach out and share the truth that I have found with others.

Because you, possessing that irrational arrogance of a typical fundy, have decided that you're a better person for attempting to interfere in other people's lives. Too bad your magical invisible pal didn't remind you that it's so much more polite, not to mention righteous, to MYODB.

Everyone needs Jesus!

Says you. Again with the arrogance, the belief that you are privy to some divine knowledge.

He is certainly no illusion but he's real and if you want to know him you must choose to accept him on his terms.

Well he certainly is an illusion. If Jesus ever did live, he's dead as a doornail now. Rotted to mold and beyond a couple millennia ago. Ick. Anyone who sees him now is hallucinating or delusional. Which do you think you are, kathy?

Does that mean we understand it all, No. It's a spirit thing only God can make himself known to a person but he will not unless you look for him with all your heart and mind.

And if you find him, are you hallucinating, or delusional?

 

[Sun Countess]

People die outside of Christ everyday and it is certainly the worst thing that can happen to a person.

Worse than what happens to innocent children the world over who starve to death every day? Worse than what happens to other innocent children who live in war zones where they're exposed to violence, raped, tortured, witness to the rape and torture of their beloved family members? What is knowledge of your god and his zombie son going to do for them? It's not giving them health or safety.

If somebody treats others well, loves and is loved, has access to clean water, food, and medicine, and finally expires after a long and productive life "outside of Christ?" Well, sign me up for that tour, because that's striking the life sweepstakes lottery.

 

[PitPat]

My psychic sense says that KK's answer will be: "The Bible said so."

And there lies the brick wall.

 

[kurious_kathy]

Yes, I find it offensive.

I find it offensive that so many young people are told that they are worthless without your approval.

I find it offensive that children are haunted with fears of eternal torture should they think the wrong thought

I find it offensive that you have set an impossible standard so that you can tell everyone, no matter how good a person, that they have 'fallen short'.

I find it offensive that you applaud sacrifice and suffering, as if pain is something to aspire to.

I find it offensive that you will not be satisfied until everyone is living his life full of guilt and shame. Guilt for the suffering Jesus endured, which is constantly rubbed in our faces as our fault, and shame that we continue to do what supposedly caused this horror: be human.

Yes I find the whole concept of Christianity offensive. The idea that god offers us the 'gift' of salvation is as ludicrous to me as that of a slaver offering his slave the 'gift' of freedom, should he only bow down and thank his wonderful master. The idea that god holds the threat of punishment over us for things we cannot avoid is as evil as a parent that admonishes his child for defecation, sparing the rod only should he admit that he was wrong and promise never to do it again.

I find your need to worship pathetic. And your god disgusting.

Well doesn't it only appear offensive if you view it with the wrong perspective? I'm sorry to have to say this but you do have the wrong perseption of God but I understand because I was once an enemy of the cross too. Can't you see the good he has done? He loves us so much he sent his son to pay for our sin. He made away out of darkness and punishment and people who reject this I just cannot comprehend? Not only do I hear how many are offended about the message of the gospel but I see how they are blinded to the good of it.

 

[paximperium]

Well doesn't it only appear offensive if you view it with the wrong perspective? I'm sorry to have to say this but you do have the wrong perseption of God but I understand because I was once an enemy of the cross too. Can't you see the good he has done? He loves us so much he sent his son to pay for our sin. He made away out of darkness and punishment and people who reject this I just cannot comprehend? Not only do I hear how many are offended about the message of the gospel but I see how they are blinded to the good of it.

Doesn't that sound exactly like the excuses from an abusive relationship?
"I'm beating the crap out of you but it is for your own good. Can't you see all I've done for you! Look at all the food I put on the table, you ungrateful slug! I love you that's why I'm kicking you."

Yes, Kathy, you and your belief is very offensive.

 

[kurious_kathy]

Kathy, I have a few questions that I'd like answered before committing myself to Christianity.

1) According to my understanding of Luke 1:31, Mary was warned ("You will be with child and give birth to a son") she'd be impregnated (by the Holy Spirit, no less; not God [Luke 1:35 - "The angel answered, "The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you. So the holy one to be born will be called the Son of God.]); there's no mention that she gave consent.

Is rape wrong?

2) But wait... according to Revelation 22:16 - "I, Jesus, have sent my angel to give you this testimony for the churches. I am the Root and the Offspring of David, and the bright Morning Star."

Mary wasn't a descendent of David; Joseph was. If Jesus was the blood-offspring of Joseph, how could he have been sired by God?

3) How do I know if I'm not already damned to hell? Maybe I'm one of the people God's chosen to harden:



I mean, I could miss a lot of Sunday football attending church and still miss the bus, right?

4) Is Judas Iscariot in Heaven? I mean, he was just a pawn, right? Someone had to fink Jesus out to the Romans for the prophecy to be true. Jesus volunteered, Judas was just the cosmic scapegoat. If Judas is in Hell, roasting for eternity, why shouldn't we pray to him instead? Jesus just suffered for a few hours on the cross and only three days in Hell.

5) If Jesus and Jehovah are one and the same (John 10:30 "I and the Father are one."), why did Jesus have to pray (Matthew 26:39 Going a little farther, he fell with his face to the ground and prayed, "My Father, if it is possible, may this cup be taken from me. Yet not as I will, but as you will.")?

6) What do you think about Matthew 6:5-6 ("And when you pray, do not be like the hypocrites, for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the street corners to be seen by men. I tell you the truth, they have received their reward in full. But when you pray, go into your room, close the door and pray to your Father, who is unseen. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you.")?

7) How did Christianity even ever spring up around a guy named Jesus, when according to Isaiah 7:14 - "Therefore the Lord himself will give you a sign: The virgin will be with child and will give birth to a son, and will call him Immanuel."? This is even supported by Matthew 1:22 -

Can you help me out here, Kathy? I really want to believe!

1. 38"I am the Lord's servant," Mary answered. "May it be to me as you have said." Then the angel left her. Seems pretty clear to me Mary gave her consent.

2. Mary and Jospeph were both descendents of the house of Daivd.

3. It's not going to church that saves someone but if we are in the faith then we are told to attend to have fellowship and build eachother up in our faith.

4. Judas (sorry) was apostate and turned from Jesus so yes I would say he is in hell wishing he had not loved money more than God.

5. Well Jesus already knew the suffering he would have to endure so don't you think that's normal to want to ask God the Father if there could have been another way? Also I do not think anyone but Jesus could have found the strength to go to that cross afterall he did nothing to deserve punishment, we did. We are the ones who put Jesus on that cross. Can you see that?

6. I never did care for praying outloud but sometimes I guess it is needed. Jesus was confronting some peoples expressing faith but it was only an outward expression they probably were quilty of non belief? This is just my opinion of course but God does not want phony's.

7. We have many names for God in the Bible but Jesus is the one foretold in scripture so when he came and fullfilled all those prophesies which makes Jesus's name above all names. Christianity is all about Him! Does this answer your question?

 

[linusrichard]

Well doesn't it only appear offensive if you view it with the wrong perspective? I'm sorry to have to say this but you do have the wrong perseption of God but I understand because I was once an enemy of the cross too. Can't you see the good he has done? He loves us so much he sent his son to pay for our sin. He made away out of darkness and punishment and people who reject this I just cannot comprehend? Not only do I hear how many are offended about the message of the gospel but I see how they are blinded to the good of it.

What you don't seem to get, KK, is that the good and the bad are wrapped up together. Yes, you have to believe in the Bible and Jesus Christ to see "a way out of darkness and punishment," but you also have to believe in the Bible and Jesus Christ to believe in the "darkness and punishment" in the first place. The Good News of the gospel is only Good News if you also believe in the Bad News of the gospel.

And the only reason you can give us to believe in the Good News is because it's your way out of the Bad News. But you can't give us any reason to believe in the Bad News. Maybe this works on people who are having a hard time - you know, convince them that their troubles are the fault of the Adversary, and they're in a state of sin, a state of rebellion against God, etc., and then when your life is terrible enough, you believe in the Bad News. And then you feel like you have a reason to believe in the Good News. But I'm doing fine.

Are you posting from the public library?

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/121/282062304_f552f5e9a7_o.jpg

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

.... Jesus did not claim to be a prophet, he said he was God!
...

If memory serves, so did David Koresh.

 

[truethat]

Ok so let me ask you this. If God lets us reap what we sow then why don't you?

In case you missed it, Most of us are fully aware of what God thinks of us. We get it, we're going to hell.

For some people you are willing to let a person DIE in order to save your ass. For some of us we would not want a man's blood on our hands, we reject the game, we reject the "sacrifice, we reject God's need of a blood sacrifice, we reject all of these things as inherently evil.

If you choose to worship, obey and follow evil, that is up to you Kathy, but the rest of us have said no dice. Human dignity is not something to be trifled with.

I do not accept that an almighty creator needed to execute a fellow human being, be that babies or Jesus, in order to forgive us for our sins.


If God can't find a way to forgive people without murder then **** him. I will not be party to the death of another person in order to save my ass.

I'd rather burn.


Is that clearer?


We all know that we are going to die. For some frightened people they are willing to execute and murder for a chance at the afterlife. For others, we respect the human dignity, however fleeting, however momentary is a greater gift than that of eternal life given by a sadistic evil entity.

Since Kathy can't come up with a reasonable argument for this she just skipped right over it.

So I'm posting it again for effort.


Kathy you say it is the worst thing to die outside of salvation. And perhaps to you it is.

In my mind the worst thing is a "God" demanding a blood sacrifice so that I may be saved and then asking a very nice individual (Jesus was a pretty cool guy) to be nailed to a cross and beaten and murdered so I get that salvation.

I don't want it. Most decent people wouldn't want it either. Maybe back in the time of Jesus everything was just that bad and people murdered without thought. But now that we can think we realize it is IMMORAL not only to ask Jesus today but also for us to accept his murder as payment for the price of my freedom.

No thank you.

I'd rather die that be part of this scheme. The scheme is evil because being GOD he could have come up with a better solution.

 

[HansMustermann]

We are the ones who put Jesus on that cross. Can you see that?

Well, I didn't. That barstard Pilatus never asked me

 

[GeeMack]

Well doesn't it only appear offensive if you view it with the wrong perspective? I'm sorry to have to say this but you do have the wrong perseption of God but I understand because I was once an enemy of the cross too. Can't you see the good he has done? He loves us so much he sent his son to pay for our sin. He made away out of darkness and punishment and people who reject this I just cannot comprehend? Not only do I hear how many are offended about the message of the gospel but I see how they are blinded to the good of it.

Actually, kathy, it's not so much the gospel that people find offensive. Really. That's just a collection of myths and fairy tales. Like any other hunk of literature, some will find it appealing and others won't. Those who don't like it will happily leave it on a shelf and pick up another book instead. What is genuinely offensive is you and your arrogant, holier-than-thou preaching. Too bad you're so tightly wrapped into your fantasy. You can't even see that you're causing more damage to that which you hold sacred than if you were to just STFU and let people go about their lives without people like you judging them.

And there's a double bonus in it for you if you do just zip it and slink away into the ooze from which you emerged. You can add some more persecution points to your score sheet, and you'll be ever so much closer to that imaginary fantasy man that you've allowed to take over your pitiful life.

 

[Foster Zygote]

Well doesn't it only appear offensive if you view it with the wrong perspective? I'm sorry to have to say this but you do have the wrong perseption of God but I understand because I was once an enemy of the cross too. Can't you see the good he has done? He loves us so much he sent his son to pay for our sin. He made away out of darkness and punishment and people who reject this I just cannot comprehend? Not only do I hear how many are offended about the message of the gospel but I see how they are blinded to the good of it.

Kathy, I'm not offended by the gospels any more than I'm offended by the Epic of Gilgamesh, the story of Izanami and Izagami, the Bhagavad Gita, A Thousand And One Arabian Nights, the story of Hercules or the story of White Buffalo Woman.

I am a bit put off by your description of people like myself, those who reject your belief in the literal truth of your own chosen myth, as "enemies of the cross". "Enemy" is a strong word that implies a certain degree of threat posed by those so described. It can also be used to imply justification of attack of a preemptive or retaliatory nature.

Finally, your failure to comprehend how anyone could encounter the Christian faith and fail to accept it as literally as you is due to a failure of imagination and lack of perspective on your own part. People reject your interpretation of the Christian narrative in the same way that you reject the Muslim interpretation of the Koran or the Hindu interpretation of the Bhagavad Gita.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

KK probably does believe that pi equals 3, bats are birds and hares chew cud and the Earth is only 6000 years old.

Or that the Moon is the source of light rather than the source of reflected light.

 

[Third Eye Open]

Well doesn't it only appear offensive if you view it with the wrong perspective? I'm sorry to have to say this but you do have the wrong perseption of God but I understand because I was once an enemy of the cross too. Can't you see the good he has done? He loves us so much he sent his son to pay for our sin. He made away out of darkness and punishment and people who reject this I just cannot comprehend? Not only do I hear how many are offended about the message of the gospel but I see how they are blinded to the good of it.

I see the good people have done and the evil people have done, both in Jesus name or any other name or no name. But these are all actions of people.

That you choose to ascribe the good actions to a god and the evil actions to a devil is arbitrary. I could just as easily attribute all evil actions to a vindictive god whispering in the ears of the offenders, and all good actions to a kind devil encouraging people to lighten up and just be human.

Can't you see the hypocrisy is saying that god offers salvation? Salvation from what? From his own punishment!

I cannot tolerate tyranny. You tell me there is someone with absolute control over my life, my eternal soul even. This person is judging my every move, and readying a punishment for things that are beyond my control. You tell me I am to love this person, that he has my best interests in mind. Tyrants speak this same way.

Could you be happy at the point of a gun? Could you enjoy your life with someone telling you how to live it, at threat of death? Every so often saying "I don't like that you did that there, apologize."

Your god is a slaver. And as I said before, I find your need to be a slave, to be told what to do in every aspect of your life, pathetic. And yes, your god, and slavery in general, is disgusting.

 

[fromdownunder]

You really start to wonder after a while if Kathy is trying to convince others or herself.

Kathy, are you so frightened that one day you will die, be buried (or cremated) and become worm food? Beind dead will be no more different than never having been born. Can you remeber what things were like before you were born? And yet you seem to have this need to think that you must live forever, because you are important and the universe revolves around you.

If your only purpose in this life is to earn elephant stamps for the next one, then it is such a waste.

Norm

 

[kurious_kathy]

Mary was incorporated, I believe, to make up for the fact that this religion was going to be so male oriented. So to help some pagans along and other cultures that didn't think women were completely worthless.

I believe if you'll research Constantine you'll discover it all got twisted because of the way he felt about his mother. Somehow the beginning of Catholicism had gotten alot of Pagan junk mixed in with the gospel. It is my observation the Catholicism is very New Age.

 

[Neverfly]

KuriousKathy, it's extremely clear from your posts that you hold Catholics in very low regard.

I mean, you will often bring up Catholics out of the blue- just to knock them down.

Why is Catholicism still so offensive to you?

 

[kurious_kathy]

I don't want to appear ignorant, or to revisit something which may have been covered before, but what does "coredeptrous" mean? As far as I can find, it doesn't appear in any dictionary known to any search engine which I access.

Am I, perhaps, right in thinking that it is yet another invention of our KuriousKathy, like most of her religion appears to be.

Co redemptrous is refering to a Catholic belief that they are taught that Mary has co redeeming power like Christ but that is not true or true Biblical teaching. The Catholics also added some books to their Bible which are rejected but most evangelicals.

 

[kurious_kathy]

To take a slightly different tack, KK, you do realise that about 67% of the living worlds population is not Christian, don't you? And since you seem to have knocked Roman Catholics out of the picture as well, suddenly we are up to about 83% of the world not being Christian.

Then we can also add all people who existed prior to the expansion, by the loving Christian Europeans, into the Americas, the Pacific Basin, Australia, Southern Africa...etc... thet never knew or even heard of your God. And the millions who still have not. All destined to rot in your hell?

So, over the entire life of the human race, what % would you personally define as a succes rate. I would put your God's success rate at under 10%, and add the point that with millions (billions?) of people, He/She/It never even bothered.

Now, if I had a Business Plan where I just happened to be in charge of the universe, and was "perfect" I would think that a success rate of probably under 10% of my creation was a MAJOR fail.

Or perhaps he just ran out of capital, and could not build Heaven to the original specifications (not enough Gold).

Hell of course would be much easier, since powered suns take Billions of years to burn out....oh wait, that's not for eternity either.

Tell me Kathy, what are you going to do forever - the same old prayers, and halo's and harps, and chatting to Jesus will probably become a bit boring after the first Trillion years. And given that there will be, apparently, no sex in your heaven, you do not even have that as a sideline.

Norm

Sorry I do not know what % may be truly saved Christians, but Jesus did say narrow is the way and few will find it. I do get sad when I realize this and it does appear more humans who were born will not be in heaven. I'm thinking that if God has 2/3rds of the angels who did not rebel then he may save 1/3rd of the human race. At least I hope at least that many can be saved but I am afraid it does not look good. That is why I must speak about Jesus in hopes he may reach some more before it's too late. Everyday we hear of lives being lost and all I can hope is some know Christ. It does matter for eternity but I'll let you decide.

 

[Macoy]

Well doesn't it only appear offensive if you view it with the wrong perspective? I'm sorry to have to say this but you do have the wrong perseption of God but I understand because I was once an enemy of the cross too.

Shurely jesus was probably "an enemy of the cross" too? I hear he wasn't too keen to be crucified.