So Why Is The Gospel Still An Offense?

[Evolved Wookie]

So Jesus hates it when people acknowledge his mother and wants to prevent her from having any glory, huh? That's some example he's setting.

It's quite correct according to commandment #11: "Do as I say, not as I do."

 

[Megalodon]

I like the basic idea of, "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you." I think that if more people endeavored to do this, the world would be a better place.

Actually, I don't. Other people might have different tastes.

The "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you." is just another justification to control others.

After all, "I" would like to have an external force bringing me back to the flock if "I" strayed, so let's do that to others.
"I" know the joy of going to church every Sunday, so "I" should make sure others are coerced to come.
If "I" was a woman, "I" would like to have a strong patriarch protecting me from the world.
In the extreme, "I" know that paradise's rewards eclipse all earthly suffering, so let's torture the sin out of those heathens... That's what "I" would like you to do, if the shoe was in the other foot.

Nah, not for me... I actually prefer "As long as it harms no one, do as you please."

 

[Holler Hoojer]

It's quite correct according to commandment #11: "Do as I say, not as I do."

I always thought that was Bill Clinton.

 

[Cainkane1]

Is it the message of Christ’s sacrifice on the cross that you find offensive?
Or is it the Christians who share the message with you?

Over and over I hear people stating mostly it’s the Christians they find offensive rather than Christ. If you judge Christ by his followers then you are not seeing him right since Jesus was the only sinless being who ever lived. I also think it best to remember Jesus said it is not the well that need a doctor but the sick so Christians just have gotten to a place where they agree with God and they know they need a Savior then we repent and follw his teachings. Do we do it perfectly no, but we admit our need for forgivess as all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God. If you could truly have the gift of repentance then you would know it’s all true.

So again I ask if God has made a way of escaping judgment for each of us who would not want to take it? The message of the cross is only foolishness to those who are perishing, but the good news is you still have time to change your mind and receive what Jesus did for you on the cross. He died for all of us so we could be reconciled to God, what’s so offensive about that?

The problem is there is no evidence that jesus Christ ever existed. His so called "sacrifice" was nothing more than a plagery of several pagan dietys who gave their lives for humanity. Atheists don't hate what never existed. The concept of God giving birth to himself, then sacrificing himself to save humanity from his own wrath makes no sense whatever. I prefer to believe that death is annilation and that no afterlife exists for some fickle Diety to manipulate.

 

[Holler Hoojer]

kurious kathy,

I believe in a deity (about which I know absolutely nothing) and I strive to follow as many of the teachings of Jesus (or Yeshua Ben David, if you will) as make sense. I find Christians usually offensive.

I also strive to follow some of the teachings of Maimonides, Socrates, His Holiness the Dalai Lama, Thomas Merton, John Locke, and lately I've been looking closer at Hinduism. What I find offensive in most Christians is that they will tell me I am wrong/sinfull/doomed to hades/satanic for even considering the value of spirituality taught by folks who worship a many-armed god statue.

I think I impose my beliefs on nobody else in any way (except to insist on my right to religious freedom of conscience). So, why am I not free to follow my own path without condemnation, control, and even the imposition of Christian belief (think Dover School Board, stem cell research restrictions, absurd abortion restrictions, prayer in school, etc). Really, would you be offended if a Jainist insisted you never again use bug-spray?

 

[kbm99]

Or is it the Christians who share the message with you?

This is what I find offensive:

Smug Christians who believe that, if only I hear the story of the gospel one more time, I will suddenly and miraculously believe, unlike the previous thousand times I've heard it.

Christians who act as if they are some oppressed sub-culture, when in fact that are the dominant religion in my country and in much of the world, and all too often willing to oppress those who believe differently from them.

Obnoxious Christians who want to "witness" to me for their own satisfaction, despite the fact that they've been told before that I have heard the message already and that I reject it.

Dishonest Christians who insist on trotting out the same discredited arguments for their faith time and again, no matter how many time those arguments have been dispensed with.

Self-satisfied Christians who act as if my non-belief were the product of some failing on my part to understand the story of the gospel rather than an informed conclusion which I have every right to come to myself.

But most of all, I find offensive those dense, self-centered, blinkered evangelical Christians who just will not stop preaching to anyone and everyone within range, no matter how many times they have been told that such behavior is not welcome.

 

[truethat]

Actually I take offense to the gospel for a few reasons. Basically I don't like God, he seems like a total jerk if what is written in the bible is true. I don't like the gospel because Jesus asks us to worship this God. I probably wouldn't have as much of a problem if Jesus followed a different God.

Here's what I find offensive.


I find it offensive that God created human beings and then "went off" and left them in the Garden of Eden alone with the serpent who then cajoled Eve into eating the forbidden fruit. I find this offensive because according to God he is all knowing and omnipresent, in which case he knew what was going down with the serpent and made no effort to protect his creatures. He then punished them for eternity for eating a piece of fruit because they disobeyed. Mmmmmkay

Next I find the bible offensive because God has murdered babies on many occasions to make a point. In Egypt for example when Pharaoh wouldn't let the Jews leave, God murdered all the first born children in the land. Now collateral damage aside I don't see how this was fair at all. An innocent baby has no culpability. Furthermore, it didn't say "all children" it said "all firstborns" which means that children who had grown older were murdered as well for no reason. If it also means men who were the firstborn then God murdered the fathers in many families and left widows to fend for themselves. I consider this a very stupid and cruel God especially since "He's GOD" if he could part the waters of the Red Sea to allow people to escape why didn't he just poof the Jews into a beautiful pre made city and be done with it.

I don't like this God because he condones stoning people to death which I think is horrific both on the part of the people doing the stoning, and the person being stoned. I think when someone encourages his children to do evil acts then that says something about the character of this leader. So for example stoning is God's instruction for someone who had sex outside of marriage? Or spoke back to his parents? Pretty barbaric God.

Which leads me to the next thing, BLOOD SACRIFICE. I usually can go along with the new revamped version of the Jesus love until we get to this sticking point, and when discussing this with Christians you usually see the shutters come down over the eyes at this point and a numb dumb....."I don't know why, he just needed one...." The idea that Jesus's death in some way appeased an angry God who needed a blood sacrifice to atone for the sin he allowed to happen in the first place, is sadistic and evil. Flat out evil.

I don't worship evil, and I don't worship spiritual leaders who justify evil. I'm sure Kathy you'd have more success forming a group of Nazi fans and Saddam Hussein supporters, because I think that people throughout history have had an uncanny habit of flocking to evil and somehow being awed by its power. In my humble opinion people like you are no different.

 

[Lanzy]

I think Jesus is very pissed off when a Catholic prays to Mary!

Wow, what a jerk this guy jesus is, for christs sake its his MOM!

 

[joobz]

If you choose to believe that lie then go ahead but I never will for I know the truth!

So, why even bother pretending there's evidence?

I want you to consider very carefully when you present what you would call evidence. Ask if that kind of evidence would prove to you the truthfulness of any other religion.

For example:
1.) Would the willingness to die for a Islam prove to you the truth of islam? If not, why should it prove the truth of christianity?

2.) Would the historical proof of mohammed prove the truth of Islam? Then why would a historical Jesus prove Christianity?

 

[Ladewig]

He is holy and cannot even look at sin so it is our fault, not his. He wanted the best for each of us but we turned evil, not the other way around. Does this make sense to you?

No, it doesn't make sense to me. I disagree with the concept of original sin, so I see no need to seek forgiveness in Jesus's death.

You say that "we turned evil." What exactly is your definition of evil?


. . . . . . . . .

I agree very much with Truethat's post.

. . . . . . . .
Edited to add: count me as one more person who disagrees with the idea that we face eternity. Dead is dead.

 

[Psi Baba]

The scribes and the Pharisees brought a woman who had been caught in adultery, and placing her in the midst they said to Jesus, “Teacher, this woman has been caught in the act of adultery. Now in the Law Moses commanded us to stone such women. So what do you say?” He stood up and said to them, “Let him who is without sin among you be the first to throw a stone at her.” Just then, a woman stepped forward and lobbed a stone at the prostitute. Jesus then said to her, "God dammit, Mom, I'm trying to make a point here!"

 

[truethat]

Funny! LOL


The interesting thing is that Christians tend to argue that "Oh Jesus came to fulfill the law and they stopped stoning people."

But they seem to miss the point. God set up "stoning" as a way to deal with sinners way back when. I mean if God set this up in the first place it says a whole lot about God. He's the big cheese, he sets the standard. If violence and evil are his standards that doesn't inspire much confidence.

 

[Sherman Bay]

There is all kinds of evidence in history but Satan has worked very hard at deceiving people to it. Have you read the historical documents by Josephus? That's one but there are many more...

It's statements like this that show that some people need to lurk more and post less.

 

[Akhenaten]

If you choose to believe that lie then go ahead but I never will for I know the truth!

I find responses like this in the face of factual information to be offensive.

Do you really believe the apostles would have died a martyrs death if Jesus wasn't the Messiah?

I find appeals to incredulity based on faitytales and presented as arguments to be offensive.

They died for their cause and I find it very unlikely they would do that if they did not know what it was they were fighting for.

I find unsubstantiated myths being presented in support of an argument to be offensive.

And you guys cannot discount the cannon . . .

I find all forms of artillery to be offensive.

. . . of scripture as nothing as it has been proven to be true history and accurate!

I find people who repeat the same lie over and over to be offensive.

I pray the Lord lifts the veil from your eyes!

This I just find to be offensive.



This just in: The Aten finds your nasty little Lord fellow to be a bit offensive as well. We already did the monotheism thing and it sucked in the long run. Flogging a dead horse is no way to go through eternal life, son.

 

[alfaniner]

A smug, hate filled and rather nasty fundie Christian.

Smug, yes. Misguided and clueless, yes. But I would disagree with calling her "hate-filled and nasty."

 

[godless dave]

So Why Is The Gospel Still An Offense?

Who says it is?

 

[Achán hiNidráne]

Okay well do you believe that Jesus lived?

Depends on what you mean by "Jesus lived." If by Jesus you mean a ascetic, cynical, itinerant rabbi (or rabbis... the Middle East was thick with them back then), then I think that there is a possibility such a man existed.

If you mean a virgin-born, God-man who used magic to cure lepers, walk on water, cause food to multiply, and could come back about two days after being crucified, then absolutely not.

Some of us live in the real world.

We have other historic documents other than the Bible to prove he lived and many witnesses shared their testimony of his life here on earth...

Sorry, this is false. Josephus' mention of Jesus are most likely Christian forgeries. Tacitus, who wrote the Annuals nearly a century AFTER the fact, only mentioned that there were people who believed that Jesus. That's hardly proof that he existed.

so do you know Jesus is historical fact?

No, I don't. No one honestly can say that for certain, and if you'd pull your head out of your Bible and use your brain for a change, you'd probably admit that you don't either.

 

[H3LL]

Smug, yes. Misguided and clueless, yes. But I would disagree with calling her "hate-filled and nasty."

It must be her love of Catholics that persuaded you.



KK, prayers to God/Jesus is OK but not to the Catholic Mary. How about the Catholic Holy Ghost - Do you pray to that.


.

 

[CriticalSock]

The thing that I find offensive is that I am asked to believe in the existence of an omnipotent god who's every interaction with people on earth is carried out in a far from omnipotent fashion.

Why have one chosen race and butcher all those around it? Surely an omnipotent god can interact with all races equally?

And if you really do have to have your son born on earth and then killed then why have this message of this amazing deed spread by human beings? Why didn't a heavenly messenger appear in every city and town in the world and say "Hey, you really need to know what's been going on in Israel."?

You may say that this was the great work that jesus gave to his followers, but WHY? Millions of Polynesians have lived and died with no knowledge and no chance of knowledge of the great message that could wing them up to heaven because the missionaries of the lord didn't arrive there for well over a thousand years.

But they'll appear before the seat of judgement on judgement day and it'll all get sorted out then might be your argument, but what hope have they got? they've lived their whole lives with no concept of jesus \ christian heaven and whatnot. They've lived their whole lives fishing and growing yams and occasionally eating their enemies and conditioning themselves to be exactly the wrong sort of people for heaven.

All it would have taken would have been one omnipotent act of information dissemination and the whole world could have had the same chance as one small part of the Mediterranean.

The god of the bible acts are the acts that an ordinary man writing about the mythological guardian of his people would write.



Oh and another thing I find offensive. Sampsons 500 foxes. a) He'd never have been able to find 500 foxes within any reasonable time limit b) tying torches to their tails and setting fire to them would mean that by the time he was lighting the 500th fox, the first fox would have burnt out and c) burning 500 foxes to death is just wrong!

 

[Achán hiNidráne]

Do you really believe the apostles would have died a martyrs death if Jesus wasn't the Messiah? They died for their cause and I find it very unlikely they would do that if they did not know what it was they were fighting for.

I could say the same for Mohamad Atta and his colleges.

And you guys cannot discount the cannon of scripture as nothing as it has been proven to be true history and accurate! I pray the Lord lifts the veil from your eyes!

If it's so damn important for us to believe in him, why did "the Lord" allow this "veil" to fall over our eyes in the first place?

So much of omnipotence.