Merged Stolen Palestinian Land

[Thunder]

There is no evidence of Israeli war crimes

Ding ding ding!!!

We have it folks!!!

A genuine Israeli racism/war crimes denier!!!

We've got Holocaust deniers.
We've got 9-11 Deniers.
We've got round Earth deniers.

And now we have Israeli racism/war crimes deniers!!



Talk to this guy Marc

 

[mortimer]

So...the Gaza blockade was set up to prevent Hamas from importing in weapons from Iran and Syria through...Israel????????



BS. Its all BS. The blockade had ONE single goal. To force the Palestinians to rebel against Hamas. They figured that if they starved the people enough, they would rebel against their fellow Muslims.

But Israel forgot one thing. The Palestinian people would rather DIE then turn against fellow Muslims.

Evidence? Do Hamas and other Palestinian terrorist organizations not smuggle weapons by sea?

 

[Thunder]

Evidence? Do Hamas and other Palestinian terrorist organizations not smuggle weapons by sea?

I am talking about the border crossings between Israel and Gaza. It is truly insane to think that Hamas was smuggling in weapons through the Israeli land borders.

Wait..did I say insane?

 

[mortimer]

I am talking about the border crossings between Israel and Gaza. It is truly insane to think that Hamas was smuggling in weapons through the Israeli land borders.

Wait..did I say insane?

Because they'd get caught. Do you believe that if there were not checkpoints looking for weapons smuggling into Gaza from Israel that Hamas would not try smuggling them in that way?

 

[Thunder]

Because they'd get caught. Do you believe that if there were not checkpoints looking for weapons smuggling into Gaza from Israel that Hamas would not try smuggling them in that way?

Israel has every right to check trucks going from their territory into Gaza fro weapons.

They don't have the right to prevent food/supplies/fuel traffic except to "prevent a humanitarian catastrophe" as Ms. Livni so eloquently put it.

 

[mortimer]

Israel has every right to check trucks going from their territory into Gaza fro weapons.

They don't have the right to prevent food/supplies/fuel traffic except to "prevent a humanitarian catastrophe" as Ms. Livni so eloquently put it.

Of course they do. They are under no obligation to allow ANY traffic to cross their borders.

 

[Tin Foil Timothy]

There is no evidence of Israeli war crimes

I promised myself I'd never ever use this emoticon, but for the first time on JREF I simply have to make an exception.

 

[Thunder]

Of course they do. They are under no obligation to allow ANY traffic to cross their borders.

Correct. And Germany was under no obligation to let in any food into the ghettos and concentration camps.

 

[Tin Foil Timothy]

In fact it's gone in my signature.

 

[mortimer]

Correct. And Germany was under no obligation to let in any food into the ghettos and concentration camps.

Are you seriously equating the two? Did Germany share a common border with the ghettos and concentration camps?

 

[Thunder]

Are you seriously equating the two? Did Germany share a common border with the ghettos and concentration camps?

no. many ghettos and concentration camps were completely enclosed by Germany. And Germany had no obligation to make sure the Jews had food...as they were not German citizens.

right?

 

[mortimer]

no. many ghettos and concentration camps were completely enclosed by Germany. And Germany had no obligation to make sure the Jews had food...as they were not German citizens.

right?

We're talking borders, parky. Do you know what a border is?

 

[gdnp]

Your post sounds like gibberish.

States not only have a right, but a duty to prevent arms from reaching terrorist groups like Hamas and the other Palestinian terror groups operating in Gaza, and the blockade fufills that responsibiity. Under Security Council Resolution 1373, which was adopted under Chapter VII and is therefore binding, Israel, Egypt and all other states are required to take steps to criminalize and prevent all material support – active or passive, direct or indirect – to terrorist groups. Thus, all states bordering Gaza are legally obliged to prevent the flow of arms and other materiel to Hamas. Israel is also a party to the International Convention for the Suppression of Terrorist Bombings, which renders it criminal for any individual, Israeli or not, to supply rockets, mortars and missiles to Hamas and the other Palestinian terrorist groups. Israel and other state signatories are required to take steps to punish such criminals.

1) please supply the resolution where the UN declared Hamas a terrorist organization. I would think that binding security council resolutions against terrorist organizations would only go into effect after the security council has declared an organization terrorist. As with the IRA, Hamas has different wings: military wings, political wings, humanitarian wings.

Now I happen to believe that Hamas's military wing is a terrorist group. Then again, the PLO has military wings like Al Aqsa martyrs brigade that are also terrorist. In fact, they are responsible for many of the rockets being fired from Gaza, not Hamas. And yet, Israel still deals with Abas. Go figure.

2) Even if we are to concede that one should not supply weapons to terrorists, does that imply that we should also not supply adequate food, medicine, cement, fuel, etc. to Gaza civilians? Because somewhere around 40% of voters chose Hamas in elections? Israel, in one recently publicized case, blocked the shipment of pasta into Gaza. Are they expecting macaroni bombs, or are they carrying out collective punishment against the civilian population?

In addition, all states have the right to control their own borders. Israel has the right to prevent the flow of arms to Gaza across its own border with Gaza. Egypt has the same right to prevent the flow of arms across its Gaza. And Israel has the right to demand that Egypt exercise this right both on the grounds of Israeli-Egyptian agreements requiring Egypt to do so and on the basis of Egypt’s obligations under 1373.

I agree that Israel as the occupying power has the right to block weapons form entering Gaza. As such, the blockade of Gaza's coast and airspace has a legitimate military purpose. However, their right to block military supplies from entering Gaza does not justify the limitation of food, medicine, and other humanitarian supplies.

BTW, that Israel has the right to deny weapons to their enemy does not imply that Hamas commits any crime by smuggling weapons. Under the rules of war, the occupier has rights as do the occupied, and among the rights of the occupied is to resist the occupation militarily.

 

[Thunder]

Are they expecting macaroni bombs, or are they carrying out collective punishment against the civilian population? .

Israel is not capable of committing an act of collective punishment, racism, war crimes, crimes against humanity, Apartheid, etc. Such an accusation is clearly anti-Semitic. You should be ashamed of yourself.

 

[Thunder]

We're talking borders, parky. Do you know what a border is?

israel controls the sea around Gaza. they control the airspace. they control the great majority of its land border.

Israel had no business keeping out one ounce of food or one drop of fuel from Gaza.

 

[Marc39]

1) please supply the resolution where the UN declared Hamas a terrorist organization. I would think that binding security council resolutions against terrorist organizations would only go into effect after the security council has declared an organization terrorist. As with the IRA, Hamas has different wings: military wings, political wings, humanitarian wings.

Gaza is not a member of the UN. The US State Department and its counterparts in the European Union, Canada and Australia classify Hamas as a terrorist organization. Japan has avoided diplomatic relations with Hamas on the basis of its refusal to recognize Israel and for violence perpetrated by Hamas against Israel.

Even if we are to concede that one should not supply weapons to terrorists, does that imply that we should also not supply adequate food, medicine, cement, fuel, etc. to Gaza civilians? Because somewhere around 40% of voters chose Hamas in elections? Israel, in one recently publicized case, blocked the shipment of pasta into Gaza. Are they expecting macaroni bombs, or are they carrying out collective punishment against the civilian population?

A significant impedient to the delivery of humanitarian aid to Gaza had been Hamas stealing aid shipents, and doing so repeatedly, forcing the UN to halt all shipents. That has since been eased, but, it should be noted that Hamas had been interfering with the delivery of aid to Gazans. Israel has consistently allowed for the transfer of aid to Gaza, including food, clothing and medicine. Palestinians also have access to Israeli hospitals.

 

[Marc39]

I promised myself I'd never ever use this emoticon, but for the first time on JREF I simply have to make an exception.

One of my children uses that emoticon. She says it's "stupid" but it makes her laugh.

 

[Marc39]

Israel is not capable of committing an act of collective punishment, racism, war crimes, crimes against humanity, Apartheid, etc. Such an accusation is clearly anti-Semitic. You should be ashamed of yourself.

Singling Israel out is the very definition of anti-Semitism.

 

[funk de fino]

Singling Israel out is the very definition of anti-Semitism.

You sir, are a liar

 

[Marc39]

You sir, are a liar

"For the purposes of this report, anti-Semitism is considered to be hatred toward Jews—individually and as a group—that can be attributed to the Jewish religion and/or ethnicity. An important issue is the distinction between legitimate criticism of policies and practices of the State of Israel, and commentary that assumes an anti-Semitic character. The demonization of Israel, or vilification of Israeli leaders, sometimes through comparisons with Nazi leaders, and through the use of Nazi symbols to caricature them, indicates an anti-Semitic bias rather than a valid criticism of policy concerning a controversial issue.
Source: US State Department