Why didn't osama bin laden just hit Israel?

[egslim]

I mean hitting one of the most secured countries in the world? No way! A country with the highest national defense budget in the world?

Bin Laden proved that despite all its bluster and astronomical defense budget, the US was vulnerable to a humiliating terrorist attack by a few well-motivated and intelligent men.

Nor did the US retaliate effectively. Bin Laden is probably safe in Pakistan, where it is very difficult to chase him, because they have nukes. Meanwhile the US is bleeding in Iraq and Afghanistan.

If I were to play devils advocate, I'm an evil terrorist who wants to kill Israelis and Americans. What do I do? I would go after Israel. After all they are the no. 1 source of my anger.

A terrorist's goal is not to kill his enemies, but to influence their politics. Killing people is merely a means to that end.

Therefore going after Israel is pointless. They're pretty used to being bombed and shot at, killing a couple of thousand of them does little to influence their politics.

Americans on the other hand were shocked by the attack. And their response has so far cost them about a $ trillion and tied up most of their country's military for years, with little end in sight.

And perhaps more significant is that some Americans now wonder if their unwavering support for Israel's actions is worth becoming the target of actual terrorist attack themselves. It's one thing to donate some money every year, but quite another to get shot at for doing so. Makes you reflect why you do it.
If that causes the US to become only a little more critical toward Israeli actions, then that would be a major benefit to the Palestines and a succes for bin Laden. Long term it would even be to Israel's benefit.

What do you guys think? If his plan was to bankrupt America then it is CERTAINLY working, but if his plan was so solve the palestinian cause then it hasn't worked.

The US is still far from bankrupcy, but bankrupting the US would do much to improve the Palestinian cause. It would cut or vastly reduce the economic, military and diplomatic aid Israel receives from the US, and allow countries like Iran to increase their support for the Palestines.

 

[Edges]

To answer the OP, Israel gets "hit" all the time. What's the point of hitting them harder? Israel just gets bad PR for awhile while they go on offense and then settle back to getting hit again. Hitting the US hard was the only way to make it global and draw in the western countries as a whole.

I think this is an important point in understanding why bin Laden chose the US as a target. If the same thing had happened in Israel instead of the US, I can guarantee you that very few Americans would know about bin Laden or al Qaeda. Even if they had attacked American soldiers abroad, the average American would be unaware of this particular organizations and its issues. As one of his goals seemed to be to draw attention to hi group, he needed an action that would be, at the very least, different enough be more than just a mention in a news ticker.

ETA Just so it's clear, I don't think this is the only reason that al Qaeda attacked the US. I think this is one of many factors.

 

[Donal]

His story is that he took to the Palestinian cause and was peeved that foreign troops were on his holy land. Ok, that's understandable.

No, he was pissed off at Western (mainly American) influence in Saudi Arabia.

He explains that America supports israel and by hitting america he will force the Americans to fight in his sand and economically ruin the Americans like he did the soviets.

Different times, different methods.

Ok, that all makes sense, BUT, Since America was the nucleus of the Israeli aggression

No, other arab states are the nucleus of Israel's defense.

and by hitting America he would ruin the whole thing, it seems that that plan is a hair-brained scheme that osama would never accomplish. I mean hitting one of the most secured countries in the world? No way! A country with the highest national defense budget in the world?

All of our defenses were pointed outward. Our generals were still fighting the Cold War, expecting and invasion or big attack coming across the two huge oceans that surround us. We were expecting domestic airliners as weapons.

If I were to play devils advocate, I'm an evil terrorist who wants to kill Israelis and Americans. What do I do? I would go after Israel. After all they are the no. 1 source of my anger. I would probably hi-jack a plane departing from egypt and heading towards lebanon and crash into Tel Avivs infrastructure.

No, you cut off Israel's supply line.

Again, I must stress that I am merely role playing here. I do not hate Americans and do not hate Israelis. If you want to beat a terrorist, you have to THINK like a terrorist. If I'm thinking like osama, I would come to the conclusion that the original plan had no way of working.

What were his goals?

He would have more incentive to try and hijack a plane leaving syria or lebanon where the security is weaker.

And piss off some of his backers?

What do you guys think? If his plan was to bankrupt America then it is CERTAINLY working, but if his plan was so solve the palestinian cause then it hasn't worked.

Most Arabs don't give a flying spit about the Palestinians. There was none of this garbage about a free Palestine when that was Syrian and Egyptian territory. The other Muslim states aren't sending doctors and lawyers and engineers. You know, people that actually help build a society.

No, they instead sit in their offices and tell the Palestinians to go blow themselves up in shopping centers.

To the rest of the Arab world, Palestinians are nothing but ordnance delivery systems.

 

[BPSCG]

Top Ten Reasons Osama Hit America Instead Of Israel:

9) Hijackers wanted to find out what ham tasted like before dying, found out El Al flights observe Jewish dietary laws.

 

[Skeptic]

Since when have Islamic terrorists cared about the lives of innocent Muslims?

Good point.

 

[Skeptic]

Islam is peace. Not the word, the religion.

Lucky us!

I mean, with Muslims behaving as they do when "Islam is peace", how would they have acted if Islam were war?

 

[lomiller]

His story is that he took to the Palestinian cause and was peeved that foreign troops were on his holy land. Ok, that's understandable.

That may be his story, but Al Qaeda’s goal is to set up an Islamic fundamentalist Sunni governments in Egypt, Saudi Arabia and Iraq. The US represents a direct challenge to this. In addition attacking the US got the US to retaliate against the strongman they themselves were trying to overthrow in Iraq.

 

[pipelineaudio]

The US is still far from bankrupcy, but bankrupting the US would do much to improve the Palestinian cause. It would cut or vastly reduce the economic, military and diplomatic aid Israel receives from the US, and allow countries like Iran to increase their support for the Palestines.

I don't see how. If you are claiming that us military aid gives the ability to kill x palestinians and the withdrawl of us aid means they can kill x-us aid palestinians, there is a problem

One SMALL us aid bit could level palestine into smoking embers

What us aid MIGHT be doing is allowing the israelis the economic freedom to better target their targets instead of causing much more collateral damage

Aside from that, bankrupting the us would mean that the palestinians would get a lot less us aid themselves

 

[BPSCG]

Top Ten Reasons Osama Hit America Instead Of Israel:
8) Hijackers' GPSs were programmed by low-bid Elbonian contractors who put Tel Aviv on the US east coast.

 

[malcolmxwarrior]

No, he was pissed off at Western (mainly American) influence in Saudi Arabia.



Different times, different methods.



No, other arab states are the nucleus of Israel's defense.



All of our defenses were pointed outward. Our generals were still fighting the Cold War, expecting and invasion or big attack coming across the two huge oceans that surround us. We were expecting domestic airliners as weapons.



No, you cut off Israel's supply line.



What were his goals?



And piss off some of his backers?



Most Arabs don't give a flying spit about the Palestinians. There was none of this garbage about a free Palestine when that was Syrian and Egyptian territory. The other Muslim states aren't sending doctors and lawyers and engineers. You know, people that actually help build a society.

No, they instead sit in their offices and tell the Palestinians to go blow themselves up in shopping centers.

To the rest of the Arab world, Palestinians are nothing but ordnance delivery systems.

Ok daniel pipes.

Go read some more kristol dude.

Egypt = American puppet dictatorship. Jordan= american puppet monarchy. Saudi Arabia = Monarchy American Puppet.

Almost all Islamic countries have populations where theire people are opressed. In saudi Arabia they're opressed, egypt they're opressed, Indonesia they're opressed, sudan, pakistan, afghanistan Etc. So it's not because of islam it's because of people. Americans support opressive regimes. That is bad. Americans give egypt about a billion dollars a year annually so they don't mess with Israel. Egypt couldn't resist the benjamins! That's bribe money. Hush money. But now, America is going bankrupt so that bribe money is gone. Israel and egypt are getting life line cut.

 

[malcolmxwarrior]

That may be his story, but Al Qaeda’s goal is to set up an Islamic fundamentalist Sunni governments in Egypt, Saudi Arabia and Iraq. The US represents a direct challenge to this. In addition attacking the US got the US to retaliate against the strongman they themselves were trying to overthrow in Iraq.

I thought it was the taliban. This original story gets so confusing

Osama's goal was to rid the "puppet" regimes in pakistan, Afghanistan, Iraq Etc. Revolution.

He was a revolutionary. And I'm pretty sure all revolutionaries in the past killed people. Well, except for ghandi

 

[malcolmxwarrior]

Lucky us!

I mean, with Muslims behaving as they do when "Islam is peace", how would they have acted if Islam were war?

Gimmie a break guy.

Most of these islamists come from opressive regimes backed by USrael right?

Right.

So it takes two to tango bro.

And you israelis and taxpaying Americans are just as responsible for the USS cole and 9/11 Etc.

 

[Skeptic]

Top Ten Reasons Osama Hit America Instead Of Israel:
8) Hijackers' GPSs were programmed by low-bid Elbonian contractors who put Tel Aviv on the US east coast.

Which wouldn't be that far from the truth, culturally and demographically speaking at least...

 

[malcolmxwarrior]

Could you add all the sources you considered to come to the OP's conclusion?

No.

 

[gumboot]

Ok daniel pipes.

Go read some more kristol dude.

Egypt = American puppet dictatorship. Jordan= american puppet monarchy. Saudi Arabia = Monarchy American Puppet.

Almost all Islamic countries have populations where theire people are opressed. In saudi Arabia they're opressed, egypt they're opressed, Indonesia they're opressed, sudan, pakistan, afghanistan Etc. So it's not because of islam it's because of people. Americans support opressive regimes. That is bad. Americans give egypt about a billion dollars a year annually so they don't mess with Israel. Egypt couldn't resist the benjamins! That's bribe money. Hush money. But now, America is going bankrupt so that bribe money is gone. Israel and egypt are getting life line cut.

You realise that the "puppet" government of Saudi Arabia is the main source of Radicalisation in the Muslim world, yes?

 

[Skeptic]

Gimmie a break guy.

Most of these islamists come from opressive regimes backed by USrael right?

ALL Islam-ruled countries have opressive regimes, since that's the only kind of regime possible when you're ruled by Islam. ALL Islam-ruled countries also produce Islamic terrorists, regardless of their relationship to the west.

True, some of them (say, Iran) more than others (say, Yemen); some of them (say, Sudan) specializing in terrorizing neighbors (or their own people), while others (say, Saudi Arabia) are more known for exporting terrorism and/or its ideology to the west. But that they are all opressive and all terroristic is the case.

It has nothing to do with their relationship with the west. Sure, if they have good official ties with the west, you can blame the US backing of their "opressive regime" for the terrorists, while if they have bad ties, or are at war, with the west, you blame the US "agression" against them for the terrorists. But in fact Islamic rule is the cause of both the opressive regime AND the terrorists -- whether or not the opressive regime likes or hates the USA.

P.S.

To clarify, of course by "ruled by Islam" I do not mean "has a Muslim population". There ARE Muslim countries not ruled by Islam, being ruled by a democracy, or a non-fundamentalist oligrachy/monarchy, etc. -- Jordan and Turkey, or most of the gulf states, comes to mind -- but you'll also find, of course, than such Muslim states are both (a) far less opressive and (b) far less likely to produce terroirsts than those countries ruled by Islam.

 

[malcolmxwarrior]

You realise that the "puppet" government of Saudi Arabia is the main source of Radicalisation in the Muslim world, yes?

That is my point.

The united states and it's israeli friends have no problem with an opressive regime in saudi arabia. They loved suharto in indonesia, they love mubarek in egypt, they love the house of saud, musharaaf, the shah, Etc.

THAT IS MY POINT!

Don't blame islam dudes. It's NOT Islam. It's hypocritical people. I don't want to blame America's governemnt because I don't want to come off Anti-american but they don't help the situation. They like to put out fires with Kerosene.

 

[Toke]

I don´t understand why Saudi Arabia both spread radicalisation around the world and suppres it at home. Is it slightly different versions or are they taking hypocricy to new levels?

 

[malcolmxwarrior]

ALL Islam-ruled countries have opressive regimes, since that's the only kind of regime possible when you're ruled by Islam. ALL Islam-ruled countries also produce Islamic terrorists, regardless of their relationship to the west.

No.

That is a cop-out/scapegoat. That is a deception. A conundrum.

Iran as of now is an islamic theocracy and they are great people. Now you couldn't have said that circa 1955 when savac and shah were brutally killing people. Or suharto slaughtering millions in east timor with American approval.

Pakistan pre-musharaf government had a scant amount of muslim extremism.

 

[Skeptic]

You realise that the "puppet" government of Saudi Arabia is the main source of Radicalisation in the Muslim world, yes?

To repeat my previous post: ALL Islamic-ruled countries are both opressive and produce terroirsts, since that's what being ruled by Islam does to you.

If the opressive, terrorist-producing Islamic government likes the USA, the useful idiots say the "real" reason they produce terrorists is because evil USA "backing of a opressive regime".

If the opressive, terrorist-producing Islamci government hates the USA,the useful idiots say the "real" reason they produce terrorists is because of the evil USA "imperialistic agression".

Ah well.