Church shooting some kind of trend?

[Small Town Jesus]

Mayor Daley from Chicago will no doubt attempt to use this incident to whip up anti-gun hysteria for the purpose of creating yet more gun laws here in Illinois.

So, some good may come of it then.

 

[Moochie]

Some good news:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090309/ap_on_re/rel_religious_america


M.

 

[alfalfafour]

I know how you feel, last time the economy was this bad, I turned into a Hispanic landscaper.

My gardener's name is Jesus. My awakening occurred in 2004, and the economy was going strong. I tried Christianity, sort of like Darwin, Nietshzce,(I never do spell that right) and Kant as well. I turned to Native Spirituality after other things happened. I couldn't find truth or wisdom in Christianity. I found an abundance with the indians.

 

[JoeTheJuggler]

So far all I've heard about yesterday's shooting is that police have determined that the shooter was a friend or acquaintance of several members of that congregation (but apparently not a member himself). He didn't seem to have any connection with the pastor, though, so it looks like my earlier guess is wrong.

They don't know (or at least aren't saying) yet what his motives might have been.

My best guess now is that it was just a flashy and grandiose way of committing suicide. . . that didn't work (because the gun jammed).

 

[Mister Agenda]

Is UU really athiest now? I thought they were "non-trinitarian" "One and only one god" believers?

More like: 'One god...at most'.

 

[Beanbag]

Yet, I too, take inferences from questions. So I can understand why some of you are offended.

I'm not offended by kk -- I'm astounded that she could do something so stupifyingly assinine. But, then again, she's always baited and badgered people, as if to see if she could get a rise out of them.

I don't really mind if she keeps slamming her head into the wall around here. Matter of fact, I think she enjoys it. One of those "cross-eye bear" things (say it out loud, you'll understand). Maximum effect for little personal effort. It's like her saying she's praying for someone: it's the least she can do. Literally.

I just don't want her to prod somebody else to where they do something rash, and get modded out of the forum.

BTW, welcome aboard. It's not always like this. Just be careful in the Conspiracy section, and remember to wash your brain afterwards.

Beanbag

 

[westprog]

Correct. I meant "religious violence", but it is my fault for not making that clear.

No problem, thanks for the clarification.

Incidentally, I'm not ignoring KK because I agree with her. Au contraire.

 

[Roadtoad]

No problem, thanks for the clarification.

Incidentally, I'm not ignoring KK because I agree with her. Au contraire.

Well, those of us who have read your past posts already know that.

 

[Puppycow]

On the news this morning, it was reported that the shooter was suffering from brain damage as a result of having contracted lyme disease. He had been under treatment for some time.

It's my hypothesis that incidents like this that attract a lot of media attention sort of worm their way into the consciousness of the disordered.
Columbine spawned a number of similar incidents and plots to commit same, for instance.

Yes, I just read a story about this:

A man of the same age whose mother's name also is registered at the Troy address was featured in a St. Louis Post-Dispatch article detailing his battle with Lyme disease. In the article, the man's mother said the disease left lesions on his brain and that doctors had diagnosed him as mentally ill before discovering the disease.

In the August 2008 article, the mother said her son was taking several medications and had difficulty speaking after contracting the tick-borne illness.

 

[Roadtoad]

Read it now.

This is simply tragic, no matter how you look at it. This man, if the information is solid, had no real way of knowing what he was doing. His brain simply gave, and now this pastor is dead.

I could only wish we knew more, that there could have been more effective treatment for this man.

 

[Upchurch]

Not all liberal heretics are bad. I believe the pastor who came by to help my family with my Father's hospice care was UU. He seemed to speak a lot about god, and he actually seemed to care and had a lot of empathy for my family.

You seem surprised. I would venture to say that liberal heretics are no more or less bad than the general population.

All "heretical" means is "to choose". It is the opposite of orthodoxy.

eta: Lyme disease is a horrible thing. I knew a guy who had it and it eventually killed him, slowly and painfully. He didn't end up shooting anyone, though.

 

[ugot2bekidding]

Well I am afraid these types of events will continue to grow as the end draws near. We are warned in scripture many times that believers will suffer persecution.

Yea, these days Christians face a lot more persecution than during, for instance, the reign of Nero.

 

[alfalfafour]

You seem surprised. I would venture to say that liberal heretics are no more or less bad than the general population.

All "heretical" means is "to choose". It is the opposite of orthodoxy.

eta: Lyme disease is a horrible thing. I knew a guy who had it and it eventually killed him, slowly and painfully. He didn't end up shooting anyone, though.

Is that all it means? I have actually chosen to call myself "heretic" from time to time. I wanted to find out what Marcion's heresy was all about, but they burned all of his writings.

I adopted a bit of the heresy of the "Libertines" and the "Corinthians" because I think it is sexy. I don't find sex between consenting adults to be sinful.

 

[kurious_kathy]

Wow. Just... Wow.

Of all the slanderous statements you could have ever made, Kathy, that's truly in a class by itself. Tell me: Did you come up with that kind of bilious spew on your own, or did you have help? (Please, tell me Christian Dude had more sense than this.)

The raison d'etre of JREF is EDUCATION. Yes, you're going to be confronted when you make a statement that is not supported by FACT. But, the last thing anyone here has EVER advocated is violence, (and what has been suggested has been more in the vein of "I could just kill you for saying that.") That you would make such a vile smear against people who have done you no harm is one of the most insulting things I've ever heard you say, ever.

No one on this board takes any pleasure that an innocent man was shot. No one. Especially not me, not Hoke, not Tricky, no one. If there is anything going on, it's concern for the man's family, for his loved ones, for his congregation. It's hope that he'll pull through. And frankly, I would have thought that you would have read enough of what folks have said on this board to have gotten that.

How dare you. Damn you.

Okay RT maybe it was a bad joke but really look how verbally abusive you can be. I'm not saying things to you like that! I would never want to damn anyone and the whole point of Christians trying to share the truth is so others won't be damned either. Do you get that?

I am the one who has felt many times if I met you face to face you would slap me for sharing what i believe with you. Do you think that's oaky because i certainly do not and I would appreciate it if you would really try hard to be nicer even if you do not care for my personality or what I have to share here on Jref. Thanks

 

[kurious_kathy]

Read it now.

This is simply tragic, no matter how you look at it. This man, if the information is solid, had no real way of knowing what he was doing. His brain simply gave, and now this pastor is dead.

I could only wish we knew more, that there could have been more effective treatment for this man.

And what if this man who shot the pastor was demon possessed, what can anyone but Jesus do for a man like that? And for the record only a non believer can be taken over by a demon. And if the Bible is true (like I believe it is) we have only begun to see bad things like this as the demons will be losed on this earth while God casts his judgement. It will happen I absolutely know it! My hope is everyone gets Jesus right before it's too late to avoid this horrible event that is sure to come.
You have heard of Judgement Day right? Don't you believe in it??

 

[Upchurch]

You have heard of Judgement Day right? Don't you believe in it??

Yep. I've heard of Judgment Day. Nearly every generation since before Christ thought is was going to happen in their lifetime and each of those generations has been wrong.

So, no. I don't believe in it.

Not to be overly rude, but do you even listen to yourself? You're talking about demons as if they were real things that go around and make people do bad things. I mean, seriously, how old are you? It's like something out of a fairy tail.

 

[joobz]

Okay RT maybe it was a bad joke but really look how verbally abusive you can be.

You write a post accusing us of being murderers, and than say that we're being abusive?

Hypocricy, thy name is... nevermind.

I am the one who has felt many times if I met you face to face you would slap me for sharing what i believe with you.

Because you think that roadtoad would slap you, you think he should apologzie for that?

Perhaps you should consider your own behavior. Why would you think someone would want to slap you?

Do you think that's oaky because i certainly do not and I would appreciate it if you would really try hard to be nicer even if you do not care for my personality or what I have to share here on Jref. Thanks

Start with you not being so insulting. Perhaps you should attempt to be the christian you claim to be.

 

[Moochie]

And what if this man who shot the pastor was demon possessed, what can anyone but Jesus do for a man like that? And for the record only a non believer can be taken over by a demon. And if the Bible is true (like I believe it is) we have only begun to see bad things like this as the demons will be losed on this earth while God casts his judgement. It will happen I absolutely know it! My hope is everyone gets Jesus right before it's too late to avoid this horrible event that is sure to come.
You have heard of Judgement Day right? Don't you believe in it??

KK, do you see how you're frightening yourself to your own personal Armageddon by taking this stuff literally? I would try to get another opinion if I were you.

I saw this over in another thread -- you may find it of interest.


M.

 

[3point14]

And what if this man who shot the pastor was demon possessed, what can anyone but Jesus do for a man like that? And for the record only a non believer can be taken over by a demon. And if the Bible is true (like I believe it is) we have only begun to see bad things like this as the demons will be losed on this earth while God casts his judgement. It will happen I absolutely know it! My hope is everyone gets Jesus right before it's too late to avoid this horrible event that is sure to come.
You have heard of Judgement Day right? Don't you believe in it??

See, this is why I posted in another thread that I really do find the religious (all of them, I'm afraid, but the extremists are the most fun) delusional nutters. Demons? Judgment day? Possession? Thank you KK for re-enforcing my my views.

 

[joobz]

And what if this man who shot the pastor was demon possessed, ... And for the record only a non believer can be taken over by a demon.

So, you just
1.) Defined a fictitious evil.
2.) Claimed that that fictitious evil can only be had by non-Christians.

In essence, you've just created a reason a purely fictitious for you to hate non-believers and view them as second class. Does that make you feel good to classify others as subhuman?

And if the Bible is true (like I believe it is) we have only begun to see bad things like this as the demons will be losed on this earth while God casts his judgement.

Who will "lose" these fictitious evils on the world? If god is in control of all things, doesn't it stand to reason that your god is the source of these evils?

It will happen I absolutely know it! My hope is everyone gets Jesus right before it's too late to avoid this horrible event that is sure to come.

It sounds like you actually look forward to this.

You have heard of Judgement Day right? Don't you believe in it??

I have heard of that. It used to terrify me as a kid. I hated the idea that people would be born into a time when things would go to hell and that god had pre ordained this. Why would god so unjustly torment those born in the end times? As I got older, I recognized the silliness of the whole argument.

In fact, I became horrified at the people who would propagate such fear mongering fairy tales. That they would actually preach it as though they wished it to happen. I am simply thankful that we have people in this world who don't wish for the end, but wish for better days. That these people are the ones who make the world a better place, day after day. That we move forward, improving standards of living and improving the opportunities for our children. Your opinion is powerless over those who make change. Your opinion is powerless over me. I work to make my children's lives better. Can you say the same?