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Vision From Feeling - Results from 'study'

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Ashles

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As the other thread is now closed I would like there to be somewhere that we can at least discuss any results from Anita's study, should it actually happen. Also somewhere that we can discuss, if anyone still wants to, her proposed protocol for the study and any changes that occur to it.

At least we can post in advance any objections/suggestions to specific parts of the protocol.

For example at the moment there appears to be absoultely NO procedure as to how the ailments are to be described.
If it is simply free text then is there any point in even providing a detailed questionnaire? Why not simply have a blank box into which the subjects describe whatever ailments they have in whatever way they feel like.
It doesn't matter as this has no weight as either a test or as evidence towards or against any sort of 'ability'.

And as mentioned in the other thread we should try and avoid anything that moderators might view as personal attacks on Anita.
In this thread let's focus on the study and if we feel it is going to be a pointless study, focus on criticising the shortcomings in the study itself.
 
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I will be interesting to see what response she gets from random strangers if she conducts her study on a sidewalk. How many people want to stand in the street filling in forms and being gawked at by strangers without even the chance of winning a holiday to Bali?:)
 
I was wondering that. It is a very elaborate protocol for a street (2 locations, 10 minutes of being watched, multiple assistants).

Plus how efficiently can you set up 2 locations in a street?
 
I'd also like to remind Anita of the quick activities that are still outstanding that she has completely ignored multiple requests to carry out (some of which would take only minutes to do):

  • Detail what happened in the Study on January 3rd
  • Fax the notes of said study to the contact details Unca Yimmy provided some time ago (the details are linked to at the bottom of his posts)
  • Run a test on identifying crystals (as she claimed she could do to an amazing degree)
  • Provide the results of the analysis of Pup's pill experiment (even if the result are that she simply couldn't detect anything)
  • Detail what exactly she wrote down regarding Wayne (providing a scan of her notes would be even better)
 
For reference these are the details of the 'upcoming' study as detailed by Anita:

Please see www.visionfromfeeling.com/study.html with links to plenty of drafts of the study procedure. But here it is:

Claimant: me
Participant: persons who assist me in the practical assignments of the study
Volunteer: person from the public who fills in the questionnaire and is seen by the claimant and one or two participants​
The study will require two separate locations that are out of sight and sound of each other. Volunteers will begin at the first location, where one participant is stationed and hands them the health questionnaire to be filled in. The questionnaire also comes with an information page that describes the study, what is involved in volunteering, and how to fill in the questionnaire. The participant is also available to discuss the study with the volunteer and also to answer any questions that the volunteers might have. The participant holds on to the filled in volunteer's health questionnaires.

Once the volunteer has finished with the questionnaire and handed it in, a second participant takes the volunteer to the second location. Once the volunteer is seated and settled in, the claimant and one or two additional participants will spend up to ten or fifteen minutes to look at the volunteer and fill in our own health questionnaires based on our impressions of the health of the person. The volunteer may of course leave early if they wish. The reason I propose that the volunteers be taken to a second location is because many volunteers might gather at the first location and should not be seen early by the claimant or the one or two participants.

There is no speaking or other interaction between the claimant and the one or two participants and with the volunteer. The volunteer will be seen from the back and no eyecontact is possible. The health questionnaires of the claimant and one or two participants who also do the viewing are then handed in preferrably to an additional participant who is stationed at this second location.

So the study would hope to involve five participants but can do with fewer. At the end of the study, health questionnaires pertaining to one particular volunteer are matched based on the identification numbers printed on their top margins and the correlation is determined by the participants though the claimant has the right to be present. The volunteers remain entirely anonymous with regard to their identity. I am even considering having the identification numbers concealed during the study with respect to the privacy of the volunteers so that "no one can remember the ID number and what person it pertained to".

The one or two participants who also see the volunteers act as controls and are encouraged to try any trick that they can think of to acchieve a higher correlation. They can try any method of guessing or any method of cheating that they can get away with, because, we want to know if I am doing such things and whether my correlation would be higher.

The study is not a test. If it were intended as a test there would be plenty of issues with its quality. But it serves the purpose of a study very well. I will gain additional experience with the claimed medical perceptions, get to find out what ailments I am better at identifying than others and hopefully good ones could be selected for a test. How many times when a particular ailment occurs do I detect it and at what percentage do I not detect it, so that we know at least how many subjects with such a particular ailment would be required for a real test. And we can get something of an estimate as to whether my correlation seems to be higher than that acchieved by the one or two participants. Is my correlation (ie. accuracy) high enough to be interesting for further investigation? These are just some of the valuable things I'd hope to learn from taking the study.

The study is not very quantitative, there is no specific point-scale system. It will produce rough estimates, but from that I will then design an improved 2nd study which builds on what was learned from the 1st one and is closer to what an actual test would be like. Provided that the claimed ability is not falsified under this first study. There is no specific point-scale system that would determine a falsified claim and a non-ability might pass through to a second study, but would be caught eventually.

I do believe that this study is an appropriate step toward a real test and toward a real conclusion in this investigation. I know that some of you won't think so. :) But I'm working on it. :xtongue

...

The volunteers fill in a health questionnaire on their own and their answers should not be known by any of the participants or the claimant as their health questionnaire is handed in and put aside until after the study is completed. Their answers should remain anonymous.

I will be nearby a second location. The volunteer fills in the questionnaire at the first location and is then taken to the second location and I do not see the volunteer until they are seated and settled which is when I and the one or two participants who will attempt to do what I do arrive at the second location. So, we are physically separated by being in separate locations.

I need a minimum of two participants, one to assist the volunteers in filling out the questionnaires and one to fill in health questionnaires alongside me so that we have a control to compare my correlation with.

I am working on finding participants for the study. I might engage university students. (Ones who I do not know prior.) If they are university students I might not need to mention anything about a paranormal investigation, since after all at this point nothing paranormal has been established. For all we know it is a study in detection of health problems based on external symptoms. And even if it were the case of extrasensory perception, such does not need to be described as paranormal.
 
Frankly, I'm worried about what will happen if she ever realizes that absolutely none of the things she has claimed are real. Now that she has brought up the "S" word, I'm going to bow out of this, knowing that nothing is ever going to come in the way of proof or evidence regardless.
 
Frankly, I'm worried about what will happen if she ever realizes that absolutely none of the things she has claimed are real. Now that she has brought up the "S" word, I'm going to bow out of this, knowing that nothing is ever going to come in the way of proof or evidence regardless.


I agree, and will bow out as well. Anita's grasp on reality appears to be increasingly tenuous, and I have no desire to help her perpetuate her possible belief in a non-existent ability, or her apparent need to seek attention-which, frankly, I think is the only reason she comes here.
 
Fair enough. Pop back anytime, I'm sure little will have changed. :)
But who knows, maybe we will have made startling progress by this time next year - e.g. maybe Anita will have faxed something to UncaYimmy or told us something about the pill samples.

In a way I am glad the other thread is closed - we don't need to know about any of Anita's personal details and issues, only about the study and the claim. The constant outpouring of personal problems and challenges just continually derailed the central subject - the 'ability' and testing for it.

On this thread hopefully everyone (including Anita) will stick to discussing the protocols for testing and any actual activities she has undertaken to investigate the claimed 'ability'.

Including adressing the bulleted list I have reposted again for about the eighth time.
 
Reference:

A Study to gain more experience with the Medical Perceptions


Claimant: me
Participant: persons who assist me in the practical assignments of the study
Volunteer: person from the public who fills in the questionnaire and is seen by the claimant and one or two participants


I presume this is a list of definitions as they apply to the study and it is provided to assist the reader. I further presume that the defined words will appear in the text of the study, hence the requirement for a glossary in the first place. Curiously, the first defined term, "claimant" does not appear in the text.

The reason I mention this is to make the point that you appear to be drafting your study with only the members of this forum in mind as your target audience. You need to remember that ultimately you're going to have to sell this idea to a more general audience who won't have the background that we do. Perhaps the study would benefit from a short preamble explaining it's broad objectives, and include your definitions in that.

As it stands, the first line of the study could be paraphrased as "Person making unknown claim: unknown person" with no further explanation being offered.



The study will require two separate locations that are out of sight and sound of each other. Volunteers will begin at the first location, . . .


This might be tricky. I believe that the sight of yourself and one or two participants observing a volunteer from behind for up to 15 minutes in the street is going to attract more attention than the participant with the sheaf of papers at Location 1. I fear that you will require yet another participant to redirect curious onlookers from Location 2 to Location 1, should they wish to become volunteers. A greater fear is that few people will have enough time or interest to pursue this redirection.



. . . where one participant is stationed and hands them the health questionnaire to be filled in. The questionnaire also comes with an information page that describes the study, what is involved in volunteering, and how to fill in the questionnaire.


This is a lot of reading and filling in to be done by people who happen to be passing in the street and will require enthusiastic and dedicated participants to attract volunteers. The participant cannot simply hand out questinnaires to random passers-by without some form of spruiking going on first. The "patter" to be used by the participants as an introduction to the study for prospective volunteers needs to be included here. In other words, "hands them the health questionnaire to be filled in" is glossing over an important aspect of how the study will actually be conducted.



The participant is also available to discuss the study with the volunteer and also to answer any questions that the volunteers might have. The participant holds on to the filled in volunteer's health questionnaires.


Similarly to the above comment, this is going to require that the participant be as conversant with your claim as you are yourself, and motivated to attract as many volunteers as possible. The source of such participants might also best be covered in a preamble to the study.



Once the volunteer has finished with the questionnaire and handed it in, a second participant takes the volunteer to the second location.


I sincerely believe this part of the procedure is going to deter most potential volunteers. It simply doesn't seem likely that people will allow themselves to be shepherded around like this by total strangers.



Once the volunteer is seated and settled in, . . .


I recall reading somewhere that you don't have permission to deploy tables and chairs for the conduct of the study. The imposition of standing in the street while up to three people look at your back trying to detect health problems seems a lot to ask of volunteers.



. . . the claimant and one or two additional participants will spend up to ten or fifteen minutes to look at the volunteer and fill in our own health questionnaires based on our impressions of the health of the person. The volunteer may of course leave early if they wish.


The bolded words are equivalent to "Volunteers will not be held against their will" and need not be stated. To do so, in fact, sounds a little threatening in itself.


The reason I propose that the volunteers be taken to a second location is because many volunteers might gather at the first location and should not be seen early by the claimant or the one or two participants.


Since no signage is allowed, the only way that potential volunteers will know of the study is if they are approached by the participant. Thus, the recruitment and flow of volunteers automatically limited to one-at-a-time.



My comments so far refer to the part of the study dealing mainly with the enlistment of participants and volunteers and I will refrain from commenting on other aspects of the study until the devil in these details has been ironed out, mixed metaphors notwithstanding.
 
Is my correlation (ie. accuracy) high enough to be interesting for further investigation?

The obvious answer is that to you, yes, it is worthy of further investigation because that's what you are doing. What's obvious to the rest of us is that you don't have any basis to be exploring the limits of your "ability" without first having a test that proves there's an ability to be explored.

Falsifying your claim is rather easy. Each and every false positive (detecting what is not there) is proof that your imagination is at work and calls into question the 100 or so "never been wrong" observations you have made so far.

As a practical matter, you had better get moving if you want to take advantage of Spring Break next week. You can't wait until the last minute to go looking for participants. You told us a week or two ago that you were contacting students on campus. Have you done that yet?

And where are the survey notes you promised to mail or fax to me? Not only did you promise here, but you promised in a private chat.
 
From www.VisionFromFeeling.com

I have asked two of the three organizers of the FACT group again whether those members who have expressed interest in participating in the study could do so, and it seems that it will be allowed. Final decision will be posted here shortly. Oh, I did suggest to write and sign a waiver that clearly states that the study is not a test and that it can not provide evidence in favor of the claimed ability of medical perception, and that the study is entirely designed by me and is not endorsed by the FACT group. This waiver will be prepared shortly and be posted here for everyone to see. It should verify my honest intentions and avoid any concern of future complications. As you know, traditionally paranormal psychic claimants can be quite tricky! Luckily I'm not one of those!
 
I never once participated in that thread and yesterday after seeing the last page I was glad for that. It was very sad and unsettling and I'm glad that Chill closed it. That person seems in dire need of professional help and I would keep that first and foremost in my mind if I ever tried to communicate with them.
 
Dear Skeptics,
If we focus on my paranormal claim and refrain from personal attack, I've just had another brilliant idea and I'm surprised if you guys find cause to criticize it! Since I claim to see images of the inside of human bodies and am interested in investigating what its correlation is with real information, there are plenty of people who have had MRI's and other medical imaging done and these images are still available! How about a simple matching test where I match medical images with persons? This is a brilliant idea and would make a very easy to arrange test. Before I claim this and proceed to such an official test, I do need to try this on my own because I do not make specific claims until I have experienced the specifics of the claim as would be outlined in a test.

Luckily I am headed toward a career associated with medical imaging so maybe I can pull some strings? I will look into this. Tell me what you guys think. It's good, isn't it?

Edited by chillzero: 
Edited for civility. Keep it civil, or the thread will be closed, or moderated.
 
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One of the benefits of having such a test of matching MRI and other medical images with persons are that we are no longer limited to health information that can be verified on site (such as a scar on the surface of the skin) and can work with information that is embedded in the body. Such information is of course out of sight and therefore suitable for a test since there is no question of whether it would be detectable from the outside with plain eyesight.

The persons who volunteer for such a test have of course already had medical images taken recently and the cost of imaging is already covered.

I really do need to try this out first since I don't know yet whether I can translate a 2-dimensional image into what I perceive in order to make a match. I do intend to look into it right away.

*Sorry. I thought it was funny.
 
Why should we believe you would actually carry out this test, when you have refused to submit to any number of simple protocols ?

There is no longer any question ( not here, anyway ) of whether or not you have this claimed ability ..

The question is why you think you do .. ( .. assuming you are not simply lying )
 
Are MRIs easy to interpret though? Or are they like xrays and utrasounds and look like blurry nothing unless you have been trained to read them.

How would you determine that what the MRI showed and what you thought you saw were a match?
 
The persons who volunteer for such a test have of course already had medical images taken recently and the cost of imaging is already covered.
Are you sure you can afford about $1000-1500 bucks per chest or abdominal scan per patient from a private MRI scanning center?
 
Are MRIs easy to interpret though? Or are they like xrays and utrasounds and look like blurry nothing unless you have been trained to read them.
The latter unless it is absurdly obvious. You would have to pay a radiologist to read it. An Xray is billed a few hundred bucks, an MRI takes about 10times as long to read. Guess how much it'll cost.
 
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