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Molten Steel

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No it most certainly does NOT. Sulphidation is proof that a) the temperature was high enough for sulphidation to occur and b) that the atmosphere the steel was subjected to contained Sulphur (most likely in the for SO2 and possibly H2S and H2SO4).

Could a thermate reaction possibly produce a swiss-cheese effect on structural steel. Thats a yes or no?

All you have to do is examine the literature that covers Sulphidation, there is a staggering amount. This literature will provide you with lots and lots of instances where Sulphidation occurs in steels due to industrial processes such as waste incineration, power generation, etc.
I dont doubt you.

All you need for Sulphidation to occur is sufficiently high temperatures and a source for Sulphur. Rubber, cellophane, plastics. Why don't you find out about all the things that Sulphur is used in and see if they correspond with what was in the WTC? SO2 is gas that is commonly found in house fires so why wouldn't it be common in the WTC?

You have made many possible sources for the sulfur, the next step is to test those hypothesis under controlled conditions to prove whether they can actually produce holes in structural steel. Would you object to Richard D. Sisson Jr’s approach post#498 in answering the question “when” was the steel evaporated (i.e. in the office fires or within the rubble pile)? If the latter can be ruled out and we know that the wtc 7 fires were not feed by diesel fuel do you think the that a normal office people in addition to all the sources you mentioned above could melt holes in structural steel?

No I wouldn't agree because I don't consider there to be a state of ambiguity. It's very plain.

I will give you the same answer as TAM “We are all in a state of empirical ambiguity, or uncertainty, until hypothesis x, y, or z in relation to what caused the "hot corrosion attack on the steel" and “swiss-cheese effect” has been proven true or false.”
The fact you continually come up with different sources that have not be proven only serves to affirm the above statement.

SO2 is a commonly produced gas in fires because there are plenty of common sources where the Sulphur can be liberated. High temperatures will allow Sulphidation. This takes time (due to diffusion rates) and so the majority if not all of erosion seen occurred in the rubble pile. It doesn't surprise me that temperatures around 1000°C were present and it doesn't surprise me that these temperatures would keep burning tons of material and that some of this material released SO2.
There you go again, drawing conclusions based on unproven assumptions. We do not know whether it occured in the rubble pile or during the wtc 7 fire. We do not know because no hypothesis has been empirically proven. That is why i would like to see further investiagtion on this particular issue. Wouldnt you? please re read Richard D. Sisson Jr’s approach post#498 to the question, that is how good science is conducted.

Firstly there never has been any evidence for liquid or molten steel. It's a red herring to claim that molten steel possibly shows evidence of "exotic accelerants". First prove that steel was liquid. No-one can.

I agree, testimony is not conclusive evidence though it is evidence non-the-less.

Secondly the presence of SO2 is exactly what one would expect to find due to the burning of a building so how is it going to show exotic accelerants? The only "exotic accelerants" on 9/11 were two airliners, full of fuel that were slammed into the buildings.

Wtc 7 was not hit by an airliner.

I'n not familiar with NFPA but please link to or reproduce where they make claims with regard to liquid steel, SO2 "exotic accelerants" as my googling only turns up truther sites and I'd rather not lower my IQ. I suspect what you are doing is trying to read across from a NFPA manual when it's not valid to do so.

I cited the source in a post to TAM. Why are the NFPA guidelines not found in debunekr sites? It doesnt take i high IQ to figure that one out.

peace
 
If I were to use the word "fused" in relation to the "meteorite" then it would simply mean and intermingling of the materials caused by the crushing of floors and debris. Yes this would generate heat through friction which is obvious, but I see no evidence that this heat was sufficient enough to melt steel.


without forensic examination of the meteorite it is impossible to determine with empirical certainty what process caused its fruition. do you agree with that statement?

your eyeballs are no substitute for an x-ray dispersive spectrometer.

would you like to see this piece of evidence tested?

peace
 
I know this is all new to you, but I've read the report. I'm asking you to think about what's really big that you're missing. I'll give you a day to think about it.
There's a big difference between reading and understanding.

If you are so interested in the truth and sharing knowledge, why so patronizing in your response?

MM
 
My two cents on the flowing liquid is aluminum, aluminum oxide, molten glass, possible lead and the coals/debris of whatever the liquid poured over as the floor sagged, then fell out of the building. Heavily oxidized Aluminum has an emissivity of around triple that of aluminum.

Its flowing in the exact corner/area where the plane debris went, nor does the flow origin point seem very reactive as thermite is. I don't think its a coincidence.

great, there is a possible explanation we can test. would you like to see your explanation tested?

you forgot to mention the bright flame and ejection of white smoke that preceded the molten flow. NIST hasnt even got a possible explanation for that. whats yours?

peace
 
There is only one referred to as the "Meteorite" and it is the same one that Jones claims was "solidified molten metal" that magically didn't melt the steel rebar embedded in the "meteorite" and coming out of it.

Rather than dodge the issue, please give us an explanation on how it is possible for the molten metal to solidify around steel rebar without melting the rebar. If you believe that is not possible, you can so state right here rather than continue to dodge the issue what Steven Jones would have his followers beleive.

lets not put the cart before the horse. first a sample must be tested to determine if the metal was indeed melted at one point.

and no, there are two items refered to as the "meteorite"

peace
 
lets not put the cart before the horse.
Yet that's what you continually do. You have failed over and over again to give a reasonable explanation of how the perps were able to "thermate" the towers without detection. All your other highly improbable points are moot until you can demonstrate this.
 
Yet that's what you continually do. You have failed over and over again to give a reasonable explanation of how the perps were able to "thermate" the towers without detection. All your other highly improbable points are moot until you can demonstrate this.

sorry to disappoint tex but i would never attempt planting thermate in any building in fear of arrest.

peace
 
The entire "I don't know what happened and I see something I think is odd, so I want a new investigation" crap is getting old. I don't want one penny more being spent to satisfy nutbags ignorant speculation.
 
The New York Times reports that “some of the nation’s leading structural engineers and fire-safety experts” believe the investigation into the collapse of the WTC is “inadequate” and “are calling for a new, independent and better-financed inquiry that could produce the kinds of conclusions vital for skyscrapers and future buildings nationwide.” Experts critical of the investigation include “some of those people who are actually conducting it.” [NEW YORK TIMES, 12/25/2001]

I'm picking this out because it's a classic example of conspiracy theorist cherry-picking and elimination of context. Look at the date. This sort of quote is trotted out repeatedly to try to discredit work done after its date of publication. If you honestly think that no further investigation has been done into the WTC collapses since December 2001, then your position in this debate is laughably uninformed. If you recognise that further investigation has been carried out since December 2001, then you're fully aware that this quote is out-of-date, yet you've chosen to include it in your arguments. Either you haven't bothered reading it, or you sneaked it in to make it look like the New York Times was criticising the NIST enquiry. This discredits your entire position, since your only reasons for quoting it are incompetence or dishonesty. Which is it in this instance?

Dave
 
without forensic examination of the meteorite it is impossible to determine with empirical certainty what process caused its fruition. do you agree with that statement?

your eyeballs are no substitute for an x-ray dispersive spectrometer.

would you like to see this piece of evidence tested?

peace
You do realize that there were thousands of tons of these and they were seen by hundreds of people? (look at pictures of the GZ clean up, they're all over the place).

Now one question (actually two), How much "exotic accelerant" are we talking here and how do you propose it was placed?

Come on be the first "truther" in history to support their theory with a reasonable hypothesis.
 
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I know IT. IS. NOT a meteorite that IS WHAT THEY HAVE CALLED IT. Not me...

Without forensic examination of the meteorite is impossible to determine with empirical certainty what process caused its fruition. Do you agree with this statement?

In terms of understanding its formation (assuming that would interest you) a photograph is no substitute to x-ray dispersive spectrometry, IS. IT?

Peace and i am working my towards you other posts.

fru·i·tion audio (fr-shn) KEY

NOUN:

1. Realization of something desired or worked for; accomplishment: labor finally coming to fruition.
2. Enjoyment derived from use or possession.
3. The condition of bearing fruit.


Are you saying that the meteorite grew on trees?
 
The entire "I don't know what happened and I see something I think is odd, so I want a new investigation" crap is getting old. I don't want one penny more being spent to satisfy nutbags ignorant speculation.

appreciate that well informed input jamsy

peace
 
fru·i·tion audio (fr-shn) KEY

NOUN:

1. Realization of something desired or worked for; accomplishment: labor finally coming to fruition.
2. Enjoyment derived from use or possession.
3. The condition of bearing fruit.


Are you saying that the meteorite grew on trees?
Hey it was his first day with the new thesaurus, give him a break. Trying to sound smart is a big step for a "truther".;)
 
I equate the TWS investigation to something on the lines of a murder where a body is discovered riddled with bullets. What he wants done is to check to see if he wasn't killed by a guillotine.
 
You do realize that there were thousands of tons of these and they were seen by hundreds of people? (look at pictures of the GZ clean up, they're all over the place).

thousands of tons and still not one forensically examined.

Now one question (actually two), How much "exotic accelerant" are we talking here and how do you propose it was placed?

lets not put the cart before the horse. first we have to sample the evidence to determine their chemical composition and what temperatures they were exposed to. after we do that then maybe the findings will support the case for eotioc accelerants. but until then i dont wish to speculate on much would be required.

Come on be the first "truther" in history to support their theory with a reasonable hypothesis.

i dont have a theory what i support is a hypothesis. forensic examination of relevant evidence will either confirm or reject that hypothesis. its real simple.

peace
 
I equate the TWS investigation to something on the lines of a murder where a body is discovered riddled with bullets. What he wants done is to check to see if he wasn't killed by a guillotine.

poor analogy.
we are investiagting who shot the bullets. was it suicide or was it some else
peace
 
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