Israeli Army Hate Training!!

[bigjelmapro]

Who said anyone had their hands clean? I said Israel is the instigators in all this.

Nice misguided allegation once again. Its great that nobody really takes you seriously on this site.

 

[Stout]

There are three moral standards used in the world: one, the strictest, for Israel, one, an average one, for most of the rest of the world, and one, the most lenient, for Arabs and/or Muslims.

The reason Israel is held to a different standard, higher than the rest of the world, is that it is the Jewish nation. We have here a mixture of "blame Israel first" antisemitism, by some people, and "after all the Jews suffered, they must be more moral than everybody else" well-meaning, but misguided, demand for higher moral standards.

The reason Hamas is held to a different, lower, standard than the rest of the world, is that they are Muslims (in general) and Arabs (in particular). Here, we have a mixture of "well, what can you expect from such savages? No point making a fuss about it" outright racism, and "well, the poor dears suffered colonialism, so they have no choice but to act savagely..." well meaning, but misguided, demand for lower moral standards.

This is unfair to the Jews, as it holds them to a higher moral standard that cannot possibly be met, and then blames them for it. But it is downright degrading and racist towards the Arab-Muslims, since they are presumed to be not fully human, not creatures who could be expected to act in a civilized or non-violent manner, it's only a disagreement about whether they are such by nature, or due to colonialism.

P.S

If the Arab-Muslims really couldn't act differently, no choice remains but to kill them or isolate them all from the rest of the world, for the same reason we isolate and even kill violent animals. The violent animal might have very good reason, due to mistreatment, to be violent; but since it cannot act differently, the world must be protected from it.

That's an interesting idea with the three different standards, I have to agree. I'll admit I sort of went down that road of holding Israel to a higher standard, well, not so much a higher standard as much as a denial ( or reluctance to believe ) that they might be up to anything "immoral". It stemmed directly from my being raised thinking that Israelis ( Jews ) were victims.

As far as I can tell, the Muslims are being held to a lower standard because they too are victims. More specifically, victims of "us" western society and all the attendant leftist memes like imperialism and colonialism yada yada. I'm still unsure on how much weight I should give to these ideas.

In the interest of fairness and learning more about this conflict, I've decided to avoid awarding moral brownie points to either side which is proving to be difficult as it drives many of the passions brought out in these discussions.

 

[Stout]

Applause.

At least someone here recognizes this apart from me.

.

We all recognize this.

We all also recognise that there are extremist factions on both sides at work here and it's simply a matter of sorting those factions and their views out.

It is unfortunate that one of those factions just happens to be the government of one of the sides.

 

[Stout]

Why 110 years? Why not 60 years, or 10 years, or 2,000 years? I mean, if you're going to argue that a particular "side" is the instigator, and therefore ultimately to blame, you'll need to offer up a very good argument for drawing an arbitrary line in history and claiming "it starts here". So let's hear it. What happened in 1899 that makes it the crucial point in the history of the Levant?

Yes, that would be a contentious issue in this discussion, just when do you want to pick as a starting point for this conflict. I'm tending towards 1948.

 

[Tin Foil Timothy]

Ahh....the truther speaks. Do you believe that 9-11 was a Mossad job?

WTF?

Are you seriously implying that the definition of a 'truther' is someone who isn't deluded enough to believe that false flags never happen.

 

[Tin Foil Timothy]

Who said anyone had their hands clean? I said Israel is the instigators in all this.

Nice misguided allegation once again. Its great that nobody really takes you seriously on this site.

It's ironic you claim to speak for everyone on the forum ( ... which I suspect would offend most people here. After all I don't remember voting for a forum spokesman. ) that nobody takes me seriously?!?

Yet you call the whole Zionist Agenda a misguided allegation, thus dimissing the history of Palestine over the last 110 years.

What was that about being taken seriously. You may not have noticed but a country called Israel was planned for 50 years and then created on land where other people living. Those people were displaced. for various reasons this country of Israel expanded and displaced even more people.

It might be worth learning even the basic framework of the history before entering the debate and throwing out personal attacks that have taken a boomerang trajectory and returned to splat egg over your face.

 

[gumboot]

Yes, that would be a contentious issue in this discussion, just when do you want to pick as a starting point for this conflict. I'm tending towards 1948.

In my opinion it is the issue. The core issue of disagreement in the Palestine-Israel conflict is the question;

"Do Jew have a right to have a homeland in the Levant?"

In my experience, the vast majority of people base their position on all subsequent events and issues in relation to their answer to that question.

 

[Tin Foil Timothy]

In my opinion it is the issue. The core issue of disagreement in the Palestine-Israel conflict is the question;

"Do Jew have a right to have a homeland in the Levant?"

In my experience, the vast majority of people base their position on all subsequent events and issues in relation to their answer to that question.

What is your answer to the that question and what do you define as the borders of the homeland within the Levant?

 

[gumboot]

What is your answer to the that question and what do you define as the borders of the homeland within the Levant?

That's off topic for this thread. I'll create a new one...

 

[funk de fino]

It worked in Northern Ireland. The British didn't bomb Northern Ireland even though the terrorists had caused many civilian deaths with bombings in both Northern Ireland and the British mainland.

And to note, the carnage in Northern Ireland lasted half the time it's lated in Palestine.

The big difference is that the British didn't have an agenda to take over land

He never, did he? Did he really type that?

From the guy who tells people they are uninformed and should stay out of things they do not understand, this is hilarious.

This would be some thread.

 

[Puppycow]

When I was in the military I hated training too.

 

[bigjelmapro]

It's ironic you claim to speak for everyone on the forum ( ... which I suspect would offend most people here. After all I don't remember voting for a forum spokesman. ) that nobody takes me seriously?!?

Has nothing to do with irony really.

Pointing out the loony in the forum is not at all difficult and does not require any sort of special training or title.

Yet you call the whole Zionist Agenda a misguided allegation, thus dimissing the history of Palestine over the last 110 years.

Kneejerk--->Zionist agenda. Who is speaking about this besides yourself? Do you have a 110 number fetish?

How about formulating something original rather than a rehash of previously posted drivel? Thanks.

What was that about being taken seriously. You may not have noticed but a country called Israel was planned for 50 years and then created on land where other people living. Those people were displaced. for various reasons this country of Israel expanded and displaced even more people.

Another fantasy. And its called Israel, not so-called.

And I know the history behind this allegation of displacement, which happened on both sides, where war displaced a great portion of Arabs, many of which were immigrants themselves, and the Jews living in Arab countries, were displaced by their 'loving' Arab governments (as well as Persian) by actual government planning (no conspiracies here). So we have refugees on both sides, but apparently, only Arabs seem to be recognized as the refugee claimants.

There's no reset button for what has occurred over the past 60 years, the brunt of blame put squarely on the shoulders of poor Arab leadership (contrary to your baseless accusations and fantasies), through all the wars and reluctance of recognizing the Jewish homeland by the Arab bloc.

It might be worth learning even the basic framework of the history before entering the debate and throwing out personal attacks that have taken a boomerang trajectory and returned to splat egg over your face.

Hypocrisy shining forth once again. Eons ahead of your Palestineremembered.com version of history. But nice try at labeling me as the novice.