10 story hole in WTC 7 - Part II

[lapman]

Whether it was molten metal, steel, aluminum, plastic or phlegm, it's irrelevant. Chris' contention that only thermite could cause it is 100% false since he cannot come up with even one non-9/11 based occurrence of this happening. It didn't happen during the fire bombing of Dresden or Japan which used copious amounts of thermite. That is proof positive that thermite could not have cause whatever was happening beneath the debris piles.

 

[funk de fino]

Find it yourself.

Its not where you say it is. Please tell me where you think it is.

I already did. See post 15.

You've provided assumptions.

Oh No! Not that !

I can see why you want to avoid Mikes testimony

Y'all can tell each other that the molten metal isn't steel or iron. I don't care. The evidence is clear. The glob in the crab claw is molten steel/iron. The colors in the photo are reasonably accurate. You are just being a smartass or you are getting paid to deny anything that disproves the Official Conspiracy Theory.

What is the orange pipe in the bottom left of the picture? Why does it not seem hot or molten?

Bolded part above is cringeworthy. What a sad statement.

 

[Christopher7]

Its not where you say it is. Please tell me where you think it is.
You've provided assumptions.
I can see why you want to avoid Mikes testimony

This statement was taken in 2004. You are using it as a diversion from molten metal and free fall.

What is the orange pipe in the bottom left of the picture? Why does it not seem hot or molten?

Diversion question.
The glob in the crab claw is in the 2100-2500°F.

 

[dtugg]

Hey Chris, have you figured out what molten means yet?

 

[Christopher7]

Nobody's being a "smartass" or anything, it's simple things that deal with photography. I'd be willing to venture that the item in the photo is reasonably hot, but unless you have the information concerning the exposure, aperture, and white balance settings I fail to see how it's an accurate representation for the sole purpose of using a temperature color chart to determine temperature.

Get serious. You demand things I could not possibly know so you can deny the obvious. The photo is clear and obviously taken by a pro. To deny that the colors are reasonably accurate in just denial.

Placing that aside, the item you seem interested seems to be in a reasonable pliable state, given that a grab claw (or whatever you want to call it) is able to pick it up. It's clearly not in a full liquid state

It is semi-solid at the top and dripping at the bottom. This is consistent with the color chart. The part that is dripping is off the chart, very pale yellow to white.

 

[funk de fino]

This statement was taken in 2004. You are using it as a diversion from molten metal and free fall.

C7 this thread was split from the other thread to discuss the testimony of Mike. It is me trying to get this back OT. Stop saying it is a diversion when it is you who is diverting from the thread start.

Where you claimed the ramp was is incorrect. This makes your assumptions about where Mike was incorrect.

Diversion question.
The glob in the crab claw is in the 2100-2500°F.

No, its not and you have been reported again. Please get back on topic for the thread.

 

[Christopher7]

Whether it was molten metal, steel, aluminum, plastic or phlegm, it's irrelevant. Chris' contention that only thermite could cause it is 100% false since he cannot come up with even one non-9/11 based occurrence of this happening. It didn't happen during the fire bombing of Dresden or Japan which used copious amounts of thermite. That is proof positive that thermite could not have cause whatever was happening beneath the debris piles.

It can't be because . . . .

The thermite incendiaries were small amounts spread out over a wide area, there is no comparison, but you know that, you are grasping at straws.

What melted the metal if not thermite?

If you don't have a valid alternative answer, then you have to accept the only known possibility.

 

[Christopher7]

C7 this thread was split from the other thread to discuss the testimony of Mike.

Says who?

Where you claimed the ramp was is incorrect. This makes your assumptions about where Mike was incorrect.
No, its not and you have been reported again. Please get back on topic for the thread.

What is your point and what is your evidence?

 

[funk de fino]

Says who?

Read the first 6 posts, especially the first one.

What is your point and what is your evidence?

Your claims about the ramp are incorrect therefore your assumptions and placement of Mike are wrong.

Look at FEMA drawings for the location of the ramp. There is also a slight inconsistency in this and the NIST diagram. See if you can spot it.

 

[Christopher7]

According to Alan Pense, Prof Emeritus of metalurgical engineering at Lehigh University he states that the photo appears to be mostly glass with unmelted steel rods in it.

That's ridiculous. The glass was ejected hundreds of feet in all directions. There were no concentrations of glass.

One other note, it also depends on which color chart one wants to use. According to Steven Jones, he put the temp at 845-1040C unlike Chris's chart which puts it at a higher 1200C+.

Everyone was using a chart made from one by a woodworker.
http://www.threeplanes.net/toolsteel.html
[FONT=&quot]http://drjudywood.com/articles/aluminum/Aluminum_Glows.html[/FONT]

I found one made by a blacksmith.
http://www.blksmth.com/heat_colors.htm

 

[Christopher7]

Read the first 6 posts, especially the first one.
Your claims about the ramp are incorrect therefore your assumptions and placement of Mike are wrong.
Look at FEMA drawings for the location of the ramp. There is also a slight inconsistency in this and the NIST diagram. See if you can spot it.

The access ramp was at the east end of WTC 7, the loading dock was at the south west corner.

 

[funk de fino]

The loading ramp was at the east end of WTC 7, the loading dock was at the south west corner.

I guess you will have no problem showing this then.

 

[Grizzly Bear]

Get serious. You demand things I could not possibly know so you can deny the obvious.

Knowing the factors that affect the end result of the photo is denial? Then how do you determine the accuracy of the photo as it relates to the color chart?

The photo is clear and obviously taken by a pro.

You keep blabbing this out without even substantiating the claim. What relevance does this have to the color accuracy of the photo? You do realize that there's more to a photograph than just the photographer right?

To deny that the colors are reasonably accurate in just denial.

More accurately you know nothing about photography or you're plain ignorant of what factors affect the accuracy.

 

[funk de fino]

The loading dock is not shown the drawings in the FEMA report. You are confusing the ramp and dock as being different things.

The ramp is on the east of the building running through full width of building. This is where Mike was. This is why he mentions trying to jump on the Con ed building and going below the generators that are on fire outside to Barclay street.

 

[Kent1]

That's ridiculous. The glass was ejected hundreds of feet in all directions. There were no concentrations of glass.

Everyone was using a chart made from one by a woodworker.
http://www.threeplanes.net/toolsteel.html
[FONT=&quot]http://drjudywood.com/articles/aluminum/Aluminum_Glows.html[/FONT]

I found one made by a blacksmith.
http://www.blksmth.com/heat_colors.htm

Who knows on what level or where the glass came from. Handwaving noted.
That's not the same chart I used nor the same temps. The chart used came originally from http://www.processassociates.com/process/heat/metcolor.htm
http://www.scholarsfor911truth.org/WhyIndeedDidtheWorldTradeCenterBuildingsCompletelyCollapse.pdf
There are many charts http://homepage.a5.com/~canska/forge/heat.php
Also as I showed in the bottom link test from fires have reached above 1200C. There is nothing remarkable that hasn't been talked to death here.

 

[Christopher7]

Knowing the factors that affect the end result of the photo is denial? Then how do you determine the accuracy of the photo as it relates to the color chart?

The photo is clear, it is focused and the light level is excellent. You are trying to find a reason to deny what we can all see in the photo by trying to insinuate that the colors are way off.

 

[funk de fino]

The photo is clear, it is focused and the light level is excellent. You are trying to find a reason to deny what we can all see in the photo by trying to insinuate that the colors are way off.

Take this here please

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=135107

 

[Christopher7]

Who knows on what level or where the glass came from. Handwaving noted.
That's not the same chart I used nor the same temps. The chart used came originally from
http://homepage.a5.com/~canska/forge/heat.php

Thank you for the source of the chart everyone had been using.
According to that chart, the glob is in the 1000-1200°C range. The chart I posted is consistent with the melting point of the steel/iron in the photo.

Also as I showed in the bottom link test from fires have reached above 1200C. There is nothing remarkable that hasn't been talked to death here.

Open carbon based fires burn in the 900-1000°C range and cannot burn long enough to melt steel [or glass] without being fed additional fuel and oxygen.

The claim that the glob could be glass is absurd and you know it. There is no way there could be concentrations of glass in the debris pile.

 

[Christopher7]

The loading dock is not shown the drawings in the FEMA report.

Mike said that he was assisting in setting up a triage center on the loading dock. He was out on Vesey Street helping set this up when he was told to call Ed Campbell, the head of the building. He walked inside to call him and the tower fell.
[the loading dock opens under the Promenade on the south west corner of the first floor on Vesey Street]

 

[Kent1]

Thank you for the source of the chart everyone had been using.
According to that chart, the glob is in the 1000-1200°C range. The chart I posted is consistent with the melting point of the steel/iron in the photo.

Open carbon based fires burn in the 900-1000°C range and cannot burn long enough to melt steel [or glass] without being fed additional fuel and oxygen.

The claim that the glob could be glass is absurd and you know it. There is no way there could be concentrations of glass in the debris pile.

I posted a couple of different charts
I see nothing substance here.
The only thing absurd here is that you're not really addressing or refuting anything I've posted in the slightest. There, that was easy enough.