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Universal Health Care in the US. Yea or Nea?

Universal Health Care in America?

  • Yes!

    Votes: 68 61.8%

  • No!

    Votes: 24 21.8%

  • Don't care.

    Votes: 2 1.8%

  • I don't know enough either way to answer right now.

    Votes: 10 9.1%

  • Universal Shemp Care.

    Votes: 6 5.5%
  • Total voters
    110
  • Poll closed .
Why is it that most Americans accept socialised education, policing, firefighting and highways without much or any resistance, but the minute there is any suggestion of extending this to healthcare, it's "Oh noes! Layabouts want to be entitled to steal my cash!"
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Because we give enough free [rule 10] away as it is. If we didn't accept those things, the socialist here wouldn't do anything at all.

Kidding aside, I'm not sure why people accept those things. Private schools are better. Private roads are better. I think we should stick with what works best.
 
DaN K. StAnLeY said:
So you people are saying that someone who doesn't work, pay their tax, or contribute to society in general, should be able to reap the benefits of my hard work?? That doesn't sound right. Even uni-health depends on people contributing tax for it to succeed.
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So, because a universal system might include among its beneficiaries people who aren't in your category of "deserving", that's it?

Why do you constantly harp on about the workshy freeloaders? Is there nobody in America who needs expensive healthcare who is working hard in a minimum wage job, or who is unable to earn through chronic illness, or who is the carer for a disabled relative? Really? Is it all about people who don't work and don't pay tax? Nobody else?

You really have a very skewed view of society.

Rolfe.
 
Well, I've heard of "economy of scale", but this is an interesting proposition - the absolute converse.

Oooh, it might cost a bit more per capita - because.... er, what? Because some people's ambulance trips might be a bit longer than average! God give me strength. And just what percentage of healthcare might ambulance trips make up, pray? And remember, you're comparing with a country where patients are regularly airlifted to hospital from outlying islands by air ambulance or helicopter.

Running out of arguments, perhaps
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I like how you just labeled ONE example of a difference in our countries, as my entire argument. I'm sure you must realize there is going to be more cost associated with driving 100 miles than driving 10.

Here is another problem, I have with uni-health. What if I need a heart specialist to examine me, but the best heart doctor is in Florida and I live in Washington state. Should I recieve less than the best care, or should I have an all expense paid trip to Florida for my heart operation? Again, the cost of transporatation could be a huge factor. That would be like flying someone into England from New York.
 
Why do you constantly harp on about the workshy freeloaders? Is there nobody in America who needs expensive healthcare who is working hard in a minimum wage job, or who is unable to earn through chronic illness, or who is the carer for a disabled relative? Really? Is it all about people who don't work and don't pay tax? Nobody else?

You really have a very skewed view of society.
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I'm sure people do need it, but they would be more likely to get it through the system we already have if there weren't so many abusers, and "layabouts" mooching off of their benefits. I'm sorry my view of society includes personal responsibility.
 
DaN K. StAnLeY said:
I suggest we fix the current system and go with what we have. I can suggest ways of doing this but I'm sure its been done here. I'd be glad to hear anyones PROOF that their way is better, but I'm sure all I'll get are a hundred more reasons we should be like Europe.
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Um, this seems to be a re-statement of an earlier post, where you declared that it would be impossible to PROVE that an alternative system would work until if was actually in operation.

And that of course you wouldn't favour adopting any other system unless you had PROOF that it would work.

We'd all still be swinging from the trees with that attitude.

Rolfe.
 
DaN K. StAnLeY said:
I like how you just labeled ONE example of a difference in our countries, as my entire argument. I'm sure you must realize there is going to be more cost associated with driving 100 miles than driving 10.

Here is another problem, I have with uni-health. What if I need a heart specialist to examine me, but the best heart doctor is in Florida and I live in Washington state. Should I recieve less than the best care, or should I have an all expense paid trip to Florida for my heart operation? Again, the cost of transporatation could be a huge factor. That would be like flying someone into England from New York.
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In the UK, do you know if a citizen would be paid to travel from Aberdeen to Plymouth if that's where the best care is located, or are you just making stuff up?

I have a guess.
 
In the UK, do you know if a citizen would be paid to travel from Aberdeen to Plymouth if that's where the best care is located, or are you just making stuff up?

I have a guess
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My point is, if we are all contributing why shouldn't we ALL get the best treatment.
 
DaN K. StAnLeY said:
My point is, if we are all contributing why shouldn't we ALL get the best treatment.
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Is this a serious question?

Can you really not figure this out by yourself?

Take a guess.

Really try.

If you still can't figure it out, I'll come back and help you.
 
DaN K. StAnLeY said:
I'm sure people do need it, but they would be more likely to get it through the system we already have if there weren't so many abusers, and "layabouts" mooching off of their benefits. I'm sorry my view of society includes personal responsibility.
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So why aren't you agitating for people to take personal responsibility for educating their own children? Putting out their own house fires? Mending their own roads? Catching their own burglars?

Look, you seem to be losing track of the argument. This isn't a discussion about social security. This is a discussion about healthcare.

At the moment, yes, your current model does include the possiblity of people "getting through the system", because you do not have universal entitlement. When only a minority are entitled to access the system, resentment develops over those seen as having crawled under the wire.

This is inevitable in any means-tested system. Someone, somewhere, will find a way to free-load. But we're not talking about a means-tested system. We're talking about a system where no means-testing is necessary, because everyone is entitled to care. Nobody is "getting through the system", because if you're sick or injured, you're entitled to access the system. End of story. Whether you're a millionnaire or struggling on the minimun wage or unemployed.

You complain about the possibility of a system where the better-off are forced to pay for the medical treatment of the poorer people, with no benefit to themselves - but that describes the system you have at the moment. You complain about a system where the lazy or feckless might be able to get access to something for nothing. But that describes the system you have at the moment.

Why aren't you complaining about the fact that the hard-working taxpaying public is not able to access the healthcare their taxes are paying for? That's what I'd be cross about if I were in your shoes.

Rolfe.
 
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DaN K. StAnLeY said:
I like how you just labeled ONE example of a difference in our countries, as my entire argument. I'm sure you must realize there is going to be more cost associated with driving 100 miles than driving 10.

Here is another problem, I have with uni-health. What if I need a heart specialist to examine me, but the best heart doctor is in Florida and I live in Washington state. Should I recieve less than the best care, or should I have an all expense paid trip to Florida for my heart operation? Again, the cost of transporatation could be a huge factor. That would be like flying someone into England from New York.
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As quixotecoyote said, it's the only example you gave. Pardon me for assuming it wasn't the whole of your argument, and not realising you had all these other killer points you just hadn't got round to posting.

Distance of remote residents from healthcare is an issue most countries face. In my own country, 100 miles is common in the remoter parts. Sometimes, a significant part of that 100 miles is over very stormy ocean. We need air ambulances and helicopters, but somehow we cope.

So does Australia.

In the grand scheme of healthcare costs, transport to hospital is pretty small beer.

Care to think of something else?

Oh yes, people might start insisting on being transported for free to the other side of the country because they like the surgeon's statistics.

Oh, got any more straw men where that came from? As quixotecoyote asked, have you any idea how it actually works where it's working? Can a resident of Thurso demand free transport to and from Exeter to have their varicose veins treated?

Short answer, no.

It's not that slippery a slope you know.

Rolfe.
 
So why stick with a health care system that doesn't "work the best"?
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The same reason I don't discard my truck if it just needs a tune up. Sure it will cost more to run for a while, but when I fix'er up, she'll purrr like a kitten, bubba.
 
Is this a serious question?

Can you really not figure this out by yourself?

Take a guess.

Really try.

If you still can't figure it out, I'll come back and help you.
__________________

I can guess, but my answer would seem stupid and unfair.
 
As quixotecoyote said, it's the only example you gave. Pardon me for assuming it wasn't the whole of your argument, and not realising you had all these other killer points you just hadn't got round to posting.
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Did you miss all the other points people have made in this post?
 
DaN K. StAnLeY said:
The same reason I don't discard my truck if it just needs a tune up. Sure it will cost more to run for a while, but when I fix'er up, she'll purrr like a kitten, bubba.
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Not everyone agrees that she "just needs a tune-up", though.
 
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