Israeli Government Pays for filmmaker killing

[BPSCG]

The Washington Post comments section in general are a bunch of Left Wing Morons and Right Wing Morons yelling at each other. It is sort of surprising that a paper with the Post's stature would not exercise some control over it's forums.

I think they just figure that free speech is a good thing because it makes it easy to spot the idiots.

Either that or they really don't care.

I particularly enjoy reading the comments for Charles Krauthammer's columns. At least half of them seem to think that Krauthammer personally reads their semi-literate screeds. Typical comment runs something like, "Kraut, you stupd jew NEOCON warmongger you dont have the Braines to understannd why the jews are hated by Evryone in the world why dont you get someone to PUSH you and you're wheelchair off a bridge you NeoCon jew."

BTW, the level of hatred hasn't noticeably decreased since January 20.

 

[Roboramma]

Sorry. If you want to start a new thread on a different topic go and start one.

Are you also saying that no-one can critise the governemnt of Israel while therrorist organisations are terrorising people or that Israel does not have to obey the law until Hamas does? That seems to be a common statement by people who support the Israeli government. Why do you think the Israeli government should be held to the standards of Hamas?

Um... you do know what sarcasm is, right?

 

[BPSCG]

Um... you do know what sarcasm is, right?

Must.... resist.... urge to... snark...

 

[E.J.Armstrong]

Ummm, why would you post a quote which doesn't support your claim? You said they were encouraged to go wild, which is not what that quote says. If you believe that 'allowed' and 'encouraged' are the same thing let me point out that you are 'allowed' to shut the hell up and 'allowed' to shave your head and move to Alaska.

Really. Let me remind you what a very senior member of the israeli government actually said, on the record as the Foreign Minister of the government of Israel.

"We have proven to Hamas that we have changed the equation. Israel is not a country upon which you fire missiles and it does not respond. It is a country that when you fire on its citizens it responds by going wild – and this is a good thing." from http://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...et-divided-over-fresh-gaza-surge-1332024.html

It is quite clear from that quote that the 'going wild ' was and is official israeli government policy and regarded as a 'good thing' by the Israeli government.

This is also supported by none other than the Prime Minister of Israel, Olmert when he stated on the record
'...Israeli PM Ehud Olmert earlier vowed a "disproportionate" response to rocket attacks on Israel from Gaza. ...'
from http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/7863500.stm

There we have the most senior members of the Israeli government stating clearly the Israeli government's official policy in Gaza- namely - 'disproportionate' responses and 'going wild' .

Under international law both those things are prima facie evidence that crimes against humanity were and are official Israeli government policy.

This is of course not recent policy. It can be traced all the way back to the 1940's.

 

[E.J.Armstrong]

But E.J., there are newbies here every day! If you don't educate them about me, who will?

But you do it so well what with calling for all sorts of people who annoy you to be killed in your 'jokey' way.

No, I was suggesting you send Michael Moore a love letter. Tell him all about me. I'm sure he'd love to get fan mail from you.

Love and hate, hate and love. Are there really no in between states for you? Does the truth really bother you so much?

I prefer Indonesian Sumatra Mandheling, FIW...

Are you proposing I actually murder them? [/QUOTE]
have you given that donation to the DEC to help with the humaitarian crisis in Gaza yet?

Let me give you a hint of the things I'm talking about. Instead of 'joking' so regularly about killing people who upset you, why not try using rational argument as an alternative?

That is only one of the many alternatives to calling for people to be murdered and what's more that one is on the house. No charge. Totally free. Gratis. Don't forget the deadline for your donation to DEC to get a lot more.

 

[E.J.Armstrong]

..

Even if you disagree with many of my points (and I'm quite sure many of you do), there's nothing that would qualify this death as 'murder'. Except to Robert Fisk, who seems to think Israelis regularly bathe in the blood of innocent Palestinian babies. It's not that he's biased (we all are); it's that he's not sane.

Sigh.

Note yet again

1/ the personal abuse as a substitute for rational argument.
2/ The lack of any evidence for the claims


It appears that the cause of the Israeli government so weak that a rational argument apparently cannot be made for its behaviour. This failure of rationality is so prevalent I feel it should be given a name. Who can think of a good one?

There are prizes to be won. The winner will get two weeks in a Gaza civilian area as the Israeli government acts out its official policy of 'going 'wild' with a 'disproportionate' bombardment.

The runner up will get four weeks.

 

[E.J.Armstrong]

Does having actually served in the IDF and knowing dozens of friends who went into Gaza after being called into reserve duty count as 'research'.

You're living in a bubble and this innate desire of yours to slander an entire country and people is readily apparent.

If repeating what your government has already said with evidence to support it is slander then the slander is coming from your government - not me. That you simply cannot accept the truth is frankly your problem.

Nice, an opinion piece from the lovely Robert Fisk. Searched using various news media outlets and search engines, all of which seem to rely on a source that doesn't exist, whereby most source this Fisk article which doesn't source anything at all.

an you guys not really find the inclination to support your claims with a factoid or twain. Let me get this quite clear. Are you trying to claim that Livni did not say what she is quoted as saying?

So I guess here you're fabricated another argument which I didn't make. At what point are you going to realize that this isn't how you win arguments? I like the nice attempt at the whole self-righteousness bit, but it doesn't quite suit you based on your previous posts.

I have absolutely no idea what you are talking about here. Can you explain? Incidentally it was you, not me, who brought up religion. Have you forgotten already?

 

[E.J.Armstrong]

Use of smilies are unnecessary if the original statement is sufficiently absurd.

This should be especially true on a web forum dedicated to critical thinking.

I guess you have read some of the posts on this site. Perhaps you could tell me whether the author of that piece of extreme Islamophobia in my signature was being 'sufficiently absurd'?

In the light of that and much similar behaviour on a web forum dedicated to critical thinking I would be entertained to see your definition of 'sufficiently absurd' so we can all know where you place the line.

 

[E.J.Armstrong]

You are quoting Robert Fisk.

Why don't you quote the rest of the paragraph:



Fisk is flirting with the truth movement and has real problem with the truth. I would want to see some real sources for his quotes before I believed anything he wrote.


Incidentally this is the quality of comments the Independent publishes on its website:

You appear to have a problem with Robert Fisk. That is your problem but your argument seems to be that he must be wrong because he is who he is. Are you trying to claim that Livni did not say what she is reported as saying? If so please provide your evidence.

Do you have a problem with her reported words or is just the world being told about them that seems to annoy you?

What perhaps is your reaction to the Prime Minister of Israel saying that Israel was going to 'disproportionately' respond to Hamas? Did Olmert not use that word either?

 

[bigjelmapro]

If repeating what your government has already said with evidence to support it is slander then the slander is coming from your government - not me. That you simply cannot accept the truth is frankly your problem.

an you guys not really find the inclination to support your claims with a factoid or twain. Let me get this quite clear. Are you trying to claim that Livni did not say what she is quoted as saying?

Thanks for the admission that you can't find the actual statement in regards to IDF soldiers being given permission to 'go wild' in Gaza.

I have absolutely no idea what you are talking about here. Can you explain? Incidentally it was you, not me, who brought up religion. Have you forgotten already?

Never brought up religion, point out where.

 

[E.J.Armstrong]

The Guardian seems to be able to moderate its comments effectively (even the videogame blog I read manages it). I also think that if a newspaper wants its online content to be taken seriously then they should apply the same standards to both online and offline content.

Does that apply to senior Israeli government minister and their comments about disproportionality and going 'wild'?

Does that apply to the official IDF rabbinate leaflets about whom Haaretz stated

'...An overview of some of the army rabbinate's publications made available during the fighting reflects the tone of nationalist propaganda that steps blatantly into politics, sounds racist and can be interpreted as a call to challenge international law when it comes to dealing with enemy civilians. ...'
from http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1058758.html

 

[BPSCG]

have you given that donation to the DEC to help with the humaitarian crisis in Gaza yet?

As I told you earlier, I will write a check for $100 for the International Red Cross's relief efforts in Gaza the very same day that the people of Gaza get rid of Hamas. I will not give money that helps terrorist organizations.

Do you think I should?

 

[E.J.Armstrong]

Um... you do know what sarcasm is, right?

That's a hard one.

Give me a clue?

 

[bigjelmapro]

*Double post* sorry

 

[bigjelmapro]

Study: Israel did not violate war laws

Israel did not violate the laws of war and made marked improvements in its fighting capability during the recent military operation against Hamas in Gaza, yet the gains from the conflict in the long term remain uncertain, a US study concludes.

The analysis of the 22-day conflict in Gaza by Anthony H. Cordesman of the Center for Strategic and International Studies finds "impressive improvements in the readiness and capability" of the Israeli Defense Forces since the war against Hizbullah in Lebanon in 2006, and unequivocally states that Israel did not violate the laws of war despite the large number of civilian casualties among the Palestinians.

"[Israel] did deliberately use decisive force to enhance regional deterrence and demonstrate that it had restored its military edge," the report states. "These, however, are legitimate military objectives in spite of their very real humanitarian costs."

So again, the whole 'disproportionate' and 'going wild' allegation still do not hold any water.

 

[E.J.Armstrong]

Thanks for the admission that you can't find the actual statement in regards to IDF soldiers being given permission to 'go wild' in Gaza.

Au contraire. The words of Livni have been quoted in the Independent newspaper. If they are wrong please provide your evidence? Do you know the name 'Ben Lynfield'?

For the nth time, where 'N' is a positive integer that is getting larger by the post.

Livni stated
"We have proven to Hamas that we have changed the equation. Israel is not a country upon which you fire missiles and it does not respond. It is a country that when you fire on its citizens it responds by going wild – and this is a good thing."

from http://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...et-divided-over-fresh-gaza-surge-1332024.html

Now, are you accusing the reporter of making this quote up? If so please provide your evidence.

Never brought up religion, point out where.

Don't you read your own posts? Let me give youi a small reminder

It's where you stated
'...You guys do realize this wasn't an Israeli Jew ...' Now I may be wrong but there is a mention of a religion in there somewhere. Can I help you spot it?

If you can't find your own posts please let me know.

 

[E.J.Armstrong]

As I told you earlier, I will write a check for $100 for the International Red Cross's relief efforts in Gaza the very same day that the people of Gaza get rid of Hamas. I will not give money that helps terrorist organizations.

Do you think I should?

And you still haven't told me yet when the children of Gaza were responsible for them being attacked by the IDF?

All the DEC and I are asking is for a little compassion to be shown to those not responsible for their injuries and trauma. Is that too much to ask?

PS
Here's another alternative to calling for people you don't like to be killed that you might consider.

Don't blame the children for the sins of their fathers, never mind their politicians.

If you steal something do you really want the law to incarcerate your baby? To put it another way. If the IDF used white phosphorus in civilian areas and collectively punished all the innocent people in Gaza do you really think all the children in Israel are equally guilty? Surely that argument is totally stupid yet, strangely, very close to what you are saying.

 

[bigjelmapro]

Au contraire. The words of Livni have been quoted in the Independent newspaper. If they are wrong please provide your evidence? Do you know the name 'Ben Lynfield'?

For the nth time, where 'N' is a positive integer that is getting larger by the post.

Livni stated
"We have proven to Hamas that we have changed the equation. Israel is not a country upon which you fire missiles and it does not respond. It is a country that when you fire on its citizens it responds by going wild – and this is a good thing."

from http://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...et-divided-over-fresh-gaza-surge-1332024.html

Now, are you accusing the reporter of making this quote up? If so please provide your evidence.

Typical media circus. How does this equate to the IDF being allowed to 'go wild' in Gaza? Its the usual chopping up of quotes to make it look like something it isn't.

Don't you read your own posts? Let me give youi a small reminder

It's where you stated
'...You guys do realize this wasn't an Israeli Jew ...' Now I may be wrong but there is a mention of a religion in there somewhere. Can I help you spot it?

If you can't find your own posts please let me know.

I merely stated it wasn't an Israeli Jew, which doesn't at all indicate that I'm using religion as an argument. Point out where I'm using this religious argument other than pointing out a simple fact.

 

[BPSCG]

And you still haven't told me yet when the children of Gaza were responsible for them being attacked by the IDF?

Sorry - you answer my question first. Should I give money to an organization if by doing so I am helping terrorists?

Check one:

• Yes
• No

 

[E.J.Armstrong]

Study: Israel did not violate war laws



So again, the whole 'disproportionate' and 'going wild' allegation still do not hold any water.

Can you tell me where in the report did it discuss the use of white phosphorus in civilian areas? How can this report be taken seriously when no independent investigation has taken place into the allegations about crimes against humanity committed by the IDF in Gaza?

Incidentally the words in quotes are not my words but those of the Israeli government. I have already linked to the quotes of Olmert and Livni but you have signally failed to support your own claims about them. Simply saying the moon doesn't exist won't work any more, when it is so visible in the sky.

If you want to go on pretending that the government of Israel did not use those words feel free.