Architects and Engineers for 9/11 Truth

[GlennB]

...

The early report is proof of nothing other than some lack of communication within the news network and a rush to be prepared to report on a possible event.

Or, as we say in the UK, it's "Chinese Whispers" (based on a kids' game where verbal messages are passed on and get twisted) :

"They say building 7 is going to come down"

"Building 7 is coming down "

"Building 7 has come down"

The idea that the MiB fed the BBC the information but mis-timed the announcement is laughable, given that the whole damn business was live on TV and didn't need to be announced by any supposed perpetrators in the first place. YtF would they care ? In case people didn't notice a vast building collapsing ???

The mind boggles.

 

[Corsair 115]

Just to avoid confusion... don't you mean the BBC?

No, I meant the Canadian Broadcasting Corporation. As a Canadian, I'm more familiar with it and see much more of it than the BBC.

So, as a result, I'd like to hear the details of how this conspiracy group controls the major public broadcasting network in my country.

 

[johnny karate]

Media manipulation-

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Mockingbird

It extends to other countries too.

But Russia and china probally not.You get less censorship about american news in the pravda and chinese newspapers than the us.
Russia played Zero a 911 investigation film on primetime tv.
In New zealand we had a mini docu on building 7 and the barry jennings interview.In the US i dont think they have even played the building 7 collapse on a major news network after the event happened.

What you also have to understand is for a long time russia(for example) wouldnt play 911 truth.Because guess what.If people understand False flag terrorism then they will understand their own government does it too.Like the apartment bombing of putin.
The georgian proxy war changed that.

Do you believe members of the mainstream media are therefore criminals for their role in 9/11 the way you believe the FDNY are criminals?

 

[Alt+F4]

Do you believe members of the mainstream media are therefore criminals for their role in 9/11 the way you believe the FDNY are criminals?

I think it would be easier for the "truthers" if they told us who wasn't involved in the 9/11 conspiracy. The list would be a lot shorter.

 

[ref]

I'm not a mental health professional. I could be totally wrong about this. But it seems to me, after spending a lot of time with Gage's work, that his delusions aren't ordinary or mild. He's consumed by this fantasy and won't reassess his methods or conclusions even when reality slaps him in the face again and again. If that's not illness, what is it?

I am no mental health professional either. To me it seems Gage is totally obsessed with the 9/11 thing. He made a wrong decision in 2006, when he decided to give credit to Griffin when hearing him talk on the radio. Gage is gullible. He took the wrong path and went far too long. He can't see himself being wrong about this.

He's gone far enough to lose much of what he had. Because he is obsessed with something he sees very important. When you're that deep in dirt, it doesn't matter if one Mark Roberts tells him that he can't have both thermite and explosives. He just thinks he's found something very suspicious and important, and you are only out there to discredit him. They lose all reasoning and critical thinking skills.

I've discussed 9/11 with a Finnish man, who is a strong Griffin supporter (This man also introduced R.Mackey's paper to Griffin, and is also going to be featured in the upcoming Griffin book about WTC 7). This man can't admit almost any mistakes! He's even incredibly stubborn about the Ted Olson lying about the phone calls issue! Thus far I've gotten him to admit one single mistake, being that there weren't 67 intercepts in the year preceding 9/11. Yet, this guy seems totally sane, if not cornered about these issues.

It is a very strange phenomenon, when people become very obsessed by conspiracy theories and 9/11 being and inside job. People who otherwise seem quite sane, can believe in absolute nonsense very furiously, and are not able to see any flaws in their critical thinking. These people think I am the one, who's not critical. They think THEY are the sceptics. Their thinking is very wrong, yet they can't see it and even refuse to consider it.

I don't know, when that obsession becomes something that can be called illness. Maybe it's not for me to decide anyway

 

[Christopher7]

He's gone far enough to lose much of what he had. Because he is obsessed with something he sees very important.

Talk to yourself much?

". . it doesn't matter if one Mark Roberts tells him that he can't have both thermite and explosives.

Is mark an expert in demolition? No. The fact that he said something a stupid as "you can't have thermite and explosives" proves he is talking thru his hat. Several different types of demolition devices could be used.
There are over 1,000 different types of explosives. . . . . . We control noise levels. [start at 5:28]
[FONT=&quot]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8uNbKJofv3c[/FONT]

He just thinks he's found something very suspicious and important,

Yes, thermite.

It is a very strange phenomenon, when people become very obsessed by conspiracy theories

You are obsessed with the Official Conspiracy Theory.

I don't know, when that obsession becomes something that can be called illness. Maybe it's not for me to decide anyway

Mental illness is believing the government.

 

[beachnut]

I am no mental health professional either. To me it seems Gage is totally obsessed with the 9/11 thing. He made a wrong decision in 2006, when he decided to give credit to Griffin when hearing him talk on the radio. Gage is gullible. He took the wrong path and went far too long. He can't see himself being wrong about this.

He's gone far enough to lose much of what he had. Because he is obsessed with something he sees very important. When you're that deep in dirt, it doesn't matter if one Mark Roberts tells him that he can't have both thermite and explosives. He just thinks he's found something very suspicious and important, and you are only out there to discredit him. They lose all reasoning and critical thinking skills.

I've discussed 9/11 with a Finnish man, who is a strong Griffin supporter (This man also introduced R.Mackey's paper to Griffin, and is also going to be featured in the upcoming Griffin book about WTC 7). This man can't admit almost any mistakes! He's even incredibly stubborn about the Ted Olson lying about the phone calls issue! Thus far I've gotten him to admit one single mistake, being that there weren't 67 intercepts in the year preceding 9/11. Yet, this guy seems totally sane, if not cornered about these issues.

It is a very strange phenomenon, when people become very obsessed by conspiracy theories and 9/11 being and inside job. People who otherwise seem quite sane, can believe in absolute nonsense very furiously, and are not able to see any flaws in their critical thinking. These people think I am the one, who's not critical. They think THEY are the sceptics. Their thinking is very wrong, yet they can't see it and even refuse to consider it.

I don't know, when that obsession becomes something that can be called illness. Maybe it's not for me to decide anyway

Gage is pure dirt dumb stupid on 911 and refuses to fix it. His delusions are so easy to see as false.

Gage talks about post clean up cuts as his proof of thermite. Pure insanity, but just as you say, he can't drop his religion of 911Truth started by the Messiah Thermite Jones.

Jones invented the thermite scenario to go with the melting fire material coming out of the WTC where all the oxygen generators are burning the aluminum aircraft and cheap metal from the office contents, not to mention all the battery backups for the computers in the one acre office space of one floor; I have 10 batter backups right here in my home they would melt quickly in a fire; along with the cheap computer metal.

Gage rants and never hits on fact or piece of evidence to support his delusions.

I have to agree, he is just supporting the position he took, and he can't stop. A lot of people do that, suspend rational thought and support a failed position; we have examples constantly posting the same failed ideas; never posting evidence.


Supporting 911Truth delusions appears to be mental illness, but it is lack of knowledge and sound judgment; for most. Jones made up thermite, he seems insane when he shows those 45 degree post 911 clean up cuts as his proof of thermite. That is an insane idea, and Gage loves it. Gage or Jones or both, used the terrorist are alive story too. Now that is exposing your delusion.

 

[MikeW]

It is a very strange phenomenon, when people become very obsessed by conspiracy theories and 9/11 being and inside job. People who otherwise seem quite sane, can believe in absolute nonsense very furiously, and are not able to see any flaws in their critical thinking. These people think I am the one, who's not critical. They think THEY are the sceptics. Their thinking is very wrong, yet they can't see it and even refuse to consider it.

That's now the most interesting element left of 9/11, I think. If the Finnish man is claiming the FBI's Moussaoui exhibit proved that Olson lied, for instance, as in Griffin's latest "proof", then it's demonstrable nonsense. If asked to spell out the logic behind it then that would become even more flagrantly obvious: he wouldn't be able to do it. And yet, I would also bet that if you went through that exercise he would ignore you and move on to something else. He wouldn't see the fiction, even when it's spelled out. Why? I've no idea, either, but I'd still very much like to figure it out.

 

[Christopher7]

Jones invented the thermite scenario to go with the melting fire material coming out of the WTC

And the molten metal in the debris pile.

where all the oxygen generators are burning the aluminum aircraft and cheap metal from the office contents, not to mention all the battery backups for the computers in the one acre office space of one floor; I have 10 batter backups right here in my home they would melt quickly in a fire; along with the cheap computer metal.

Whatever the metal was, it was in the 2300 - 2500°F range.

Jones made up thermite,

You give the man too much credit. He did not invent thermite, he found it in the WTC dust.

he seems insane when he shows those 45 degree post 911 clean up cuts as his proof of thermite. That is an insane idea, and Gage loves it.

Thanks to your gracious help and further analysis, Richard Gage has dropped the angle cuts and the squibs. As time goes on and mistakes are pointed out, Richard will continue to eliminate these points.
You, on the other hand, will never change your position. You will continue to deny the existence of molten metal in the debris pile, explosions, bone fragments on top of a building 250 feet away and anything else that proves explosive demolition.
You will cling to your Conspiracy Theory about Bin Laden and 19 hijackers even though there is no hard evidence that they were responsible for the attacks on 9/11.

 

[beachnut]

Why are Gage's delusions supported with zero evidence.

Jones did made up thermite as the means. No evidence.

19 terrorists killed 8 pilots, crash 4 planes. Too hard for Gage to figure out?

Complicated plot! Kill pilots, fly planes into buildings. Complicated.

911Truth - some gigantic plot as Gage delusion includes people planting explosives, wait thermite, no thermate, or was it cutter charges in the elevator shafts of the WTC with remote fuse set off by radios, with lot of repeaters in the building cause the radios don’t work in the building. What a plot. What did they do with the gypsum board, 3 inches, and how do you fit in the elevator shafts shape charges as wide as the columns are? Did you know the blasts from these would have blown out the windows at speed 10 to 100 times faster than the air pressure squibs; oh dolt Gage dropped the squibs for thermite! Oops thermite does not work! Jones and Gage have no clue how much thermite is needed and why it will not work.

What about the terrorist still alive, has Gage dropped that?
The terrorist failed when the passengers on Flight 93 figured out 911.
The Passengers on Flight 93 figured out 911 in minutes and Gage is spewing delusions after 7 years. Gage and his cult comprise less than 0.01 percent of all professionals, then it is not a surprise the passengers on Flight 93 figured out 911, the few fringe 911Truth delusion experts were not on the flight to mess it up.

Gage's 911 conclusions are delusions and no one can produce evidence to say otherwise.

When will someone produce the molten metal in the debris fires after 911? What does it matter if there are fires melting Al wheels and light metals in the debris fire after 911? Proof of thermite? NO, thermite would not burn for more than a few minutes or seconds. BUSTED! Explosives burn for microseconds; BUSTED. But office fires can burn for months underground confined and reach temperature to melt Al, Lead, etc. So? What a stupid delusion, molten metal; why?

 

[ref]

That's now the most interesting element left of 9/11, I think. If the Finnish man is claiming the FBI's Moussaoui exhibit proved that Olson lied, for instance, as in Griffin's latest "proof", then it's demonstrable nonsense.

He did exactly that.

If asked to spell out the logic behind it then that would become even more flagrantly obvious: he wouldn't be able to do it. And yet, I would also bet that if you went through that exercise he would ignore you and move on to something else. He wouldn't see the fiction, even when it's spelled out. Why? I've no idea, either, but I'd still very much like to figure it out.

I said he was using FBI material to prove that the Olson lied. Would the perpetrators be so stupid, that they released material that contradicted their story. If Olson really was lying, wouldn't he memorize the fake story, and get it right every time.

The man wasn't able to spell out any logic. I asked him at least 4 times, who received the four "unknown caller" calls, if not Olson or his office. I also asked him who else is lying if Olson received no calls, since only Olson and Renee May's parents said they had received calls from that flight, and May's parents sure didn't receive that many calls.

All he could do was laugh at me, saying the 9/11 commission could easily have checked if Olson's office had received any calls.

I asked him once again, who did receive those four calls then. No Answer.

I asked him why would Olson be lying. No answer.

I asked, that even if we supposed that Olson had lied, what part of the official account would that demonstrably change? No answer.

Finally he pointed me to a Griffin article. I told him, that in that article Griffin claims that there were no air-phones on AA77, which is equally absurd.

After that he said, that he no longer adresses my questions, since I obviously am not interested in finding the truth.

Amazing. Truly.

And this same man, in the very beginning of our many exchanges, said that he is a true critical thinker. He actually does believe that, I am sure of it. Yet he claims everything that Griffin does.

 

[T.A.M.]

Mental illness is believing the government.

Has someone sent this in for a "stundie" yet?

TAM

 

[T.A.M.]

1. The substance pouring out of the WTC in that photo "appears" to be of the temperature you speak, but (A) you cannot prove it is metal (though I suspect it is) and (B) you are comparing two independent images, without verifying that the colors in them are accurate. I can take a photo of your face and make it many shades of "skin tone", but none of them are correct.

2. If Dick Gage has to correct for all of his errors, he will be left with nothing to base his theory upon except his own paranoia.

TAM

Edit: and by the way, NONE of the "molten METAL in the debris pile", "Explosions", or "bone fragments atop a building 250 feet away" indicate, let alone prove the use of "Explosives", unless by explosives you mean "a jet airliner crashing into the building, followed by collapse of said building".

Thanks for playing.

 

[MikeW]

He did exactly that.

I had a feeling he might!

Sounds like you did all you could. It also sounds like your man knew Griffin's claim wasn't true - the exhibit doesn't contradict Olson - and so moved the goalposts to keep the argument going, claiming the absence of additional evidence proved his point. That's another common symptom: you can point out false claims but they very rarely care.

Oh well, let's not derail this thread further. Truther psychology maybe needs a new thread of its own...

 

[GlennB]

And the molten metal in the debris pile.

Whatever the metal was, it was in the 2300 - 2500°F range.

Hi Chris7

Here's a photo of a woodfire in my fireplace. Care to estimate the temperature of the hottest spots ? ----

 

[T.A.M.]

I love the fuscha the best. That must be the hottest...lol

TAM

 

[Gravy]

Is mark an expert in demolition? No. The fact that he said something a stupid as "you can't have thermite and explosives" proves he is talking thru his hat.

I never said that, and that's not what ref is referring to. So what are you talking out of?

Gage repeatedly claims that there were multiple witnesses to explosions that initiated the collapses. When cornered and shown the audiovisual record and asked to point out these explosions (I told him I would quit debunking, remove my website, and apologize if he could do this), he falls back on the silent thermate argument. He did this on the show with Ron Craig. He did it with me.

Gage also makes the astonishing claim that explosives threw 230-ton steel sections hundreds of feet "like matchsticks" and turned tens of thousands of tons of concrete to a fine powder. When asked why these explosions do not appear in the audiovisual record, and why they didn't destroy everything in the area and send shrapnel for miles, Gage falls back on the thermate argument.

If you know of silent explosives that can destroy thousands of tons of concrete and hurl hundreds of tons of steel for hundreds of feet while not producing audible or visible detonations and while not hurling lighter shrapnel ahead of the steel at high velocity and for great distances, please tell us where this magic material can be found. Remember, Gage is talking about thousands of times the quantity of explosives that would be used in a demolition. And even a small demolition is an extremely loud and violent event.

Or is the truth that Gage is simply a disturbed liar who will say anything to try to win an audience? What's your opinion on these things, Christopher7?

If you are confused about these things, I suggest that you watch my video World Trade Center Not a Demolition, which takes you through these claims from an audiovisual standpoint. What did I get wrong, Christopher7?

 

[ElMondoHummus]

I never said that, and that's not what ref is referring to. So what are you talking out of?

Reported for trying to induce Christopher7 to violate Rule 8 . Something about his .




So just how does one speak out of his donkey anywa... Oh, wait! I get it!

 

[Gravy]

Reported for trying to induce Christopher7 to violate Rule 8 . Something about his http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/vbimghost.php?do=displayimg&imgid=15141http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/imagehosting/1238649872cf356a46.png.


So just how does one speak out of his donkey anywa... Oh, wait! I get it!

Keep up with the times: it's been rule 10 for over a year!

 

[ElMondoHummus]

When asked why these explosions do not appear in the audiovisual record...

And for new folks and lurkers who're unaware of this, these explosions do not appear in the seismic record either. Christopher7 has disputed this in the past, and so have others who choose to believe the various conspiracy fantasies; my only response is to read the links above and do searches of this forum's archives to gather information and decide for yourselves.