Hamas & Israel Cease-Fire. Hamas Violates cease-fire.

[gdnp]

It doesn't matter which organization or individual is doing the actual shooting. Hamas is the leading entity in Gaza and thus stop the attacks or at least show that they are doing EVERY possible action to stop it including call for international help if they cannot do it by themselves.
I haven't seen this happening at all. Not even slightly.

What is Abbas doing? He is the head of Fatah, and Al Aqsa claims they are firing the rockets. Can't he control his own military wing?

Two weeks ago Hamas was allegedly summarily executing Fatah members for collaborating with the Israelis. These guys are not friends. Israel just destroyed the Gaza government infrastructure. Any Hamas leader who shows his face in public does so with an Israeli target on his head. They destroyed the main prison. A month ago you had a reasonable argument. Hamas was in charge, and though limited in their capabilities by the Israeli blockade were clearly not making enough of an effort to stop rocket fire.

Now the Hamas government is in disarray. Your criticism is like criticizing the New Orleans police force for not doing enough to stop looting after Katrina. Except the disaster this time was not an act of God.

Well, Olmert has played his last card and lost. Perhaps Netanyahu will have better luck. 1300 Palestinians and 13 Israelis is a steep price to try to win an election.

 

[gumboot]

International help? Do you think the Israeli government should ask for international help to assist them stopping the illegal settlement building?....they don't seem to be able to manage it themselves.

That argument supports yairhol's point.

 

[gdnp]

That argument supports yairhol's point.

I don't see your point. Yairhol claims that Hamas should ask for international help to stop illegal activities by their citizens if they cannot stop it on their own, in this case the firing of rockets at Israel.

The Fool countered that if this is the case then Israel should ask for international help to stop illegal activities by their citizens if they cannot stop it on their own, in this case the building of illegal settlements on Palestinian-owned land.

It seems to me that Israel has much greater capability to stop illegal settlements than Hamas has to stop illegal rockets fired by rival factions. The settlements are much larger and don't move around.

 

[yairhol]

It doesn't matter which organization or individual is doing the actual shooting. Hamas is the leading entity in Gaza and thus stop the attacks or at least show that they are doing EVERY possible action to stop it including call for international help if they cannot do it by themselves.
I haven't seen this happening at all. Not even slightly.

International help? Do you think the Israeli government should ask for international help to assist them stopping the illegal settlement building?....they don't seem to be able to manage it themselves.

The Fool countered that if this is the case then Israel should ask for international help to stop illegal activities by their citizens if they cannot stop it on their own, in this case the building of illegal settlements on Palestinian-owned land.

It seems to me that Israel has much greater capability to stop illegal settlements than Hamas has to stop illegal rockets fired by rival factions. The settlements are much larger and don't move around.

I don't see how that answers anything from what I have said above.
Why do you change the subject to the Israeli side? I talked about the Hamas not doing enough to stop the rockets and you answer with Israel and the settlements?

In other words, you're saying something like "you're right, the Hamas can't do anything against the rockets fired by other organizations in their (Hamas') own territory but in response I say Israel should stop the settlements.".
I hope you see the absurdity of your own post.

 

[Gangularis]

LOL.. have you guys seen these rockets? It left a hole in the ground, and that was it? Man, they have some crappy rockets..

The one guy picks up a rocket and walks away with it. He also picks up a brown bag that's next to it. Since the rocket landed near a kindergarden, I can only assume that Hamas was trying to get someone their bagged lunch.



... by disproportionate response.. I guess that means "brace yourselves for a lot more civilian casualties"...

 

[yairhol]

[QUOTEGangularis]LOL.. have you guys seen these rockets? It left a hole in the ground, and that was it? Man, they have some crappy rockets..
[/QUOTE]

Care to stand somewhere next to a falling 'crappy rocket'?
Care to stand in a house with such a 'crappy rocket' falling on its roof?

Didn't think so.

 

[gumboot]

I don't see your point. Yairhol claims that Hamas should ask for international help to stop illegal activities by their citizens if they cannot stop it on their own, in this case the firing of rockets at Israel.

Yairhol's point is that Hamas are responsible for their territory, and if they can't handle it they should ask for help. Not being able to handle it is not an excuse.

The Fool counters with the illegal settlements - something which Israel can't handle on their own. Yet I've never seen anyone excuse the settlements because it's too hard for Israel to deal with it. I sincerely doubt you'll ever see The Fool argue that - regardless of how much control Israel does or does not have over the settlements - it's still their problem. Period.

So it actually reinforces Yairhol's point. See?

 

[a_unique_person]

Yairhol's point is that Hamas are responsible for their territory, and if they can't handle it they should ask for help. Not being able to handle it is not an excuse.

The Fool counters with the illegal settlements - something which Israel can't handle on their own. Yet I've never seen anyone excuse the settlements because it's too hard for Israel to deal with it. I sincerely doubt you'll ever see The Fool argue that - regardless of how much control Israel does or does not have over the settlements - it's still their problem. Period.

So it actually reinforces Yairhol's point. See?

Israel isn't even trying to deal with it, it's actively promoting their expansion, and has been for years.

 

[gumboot]

Israel isn't even trying to deal with it, it's actively promoting their expansion, and has been for years.

Again, that only serves to reinforce Yairhol's point. Hamas isn't even trying to deal with it, it's actively promoting the firing of rockets on Israel, and has been for years.

See?

 

[gdnp]

Again, that only serves to reinforce Yairhol's point. Hamas isn't even trying to deal with it, it's actively promoting the firing of rockets on Israel, and has been for years.

See?

If Hamas is actively promoting the firing of rockets at Israel, why have the recent rockets been claimed by Al aqsa? does Hamas have so few rockets of their own that they need to use their rivals to do their dirty work? They have never had trouble launching rockets on their own in the past. If Hamas wished to provoke Israel at this point, I think they would have no trouble in doing it on their own.

 

[Gangularis]

[QUOTEGangularis]LOL.. have you guys seen these rockets? It left a hole in the ground, and that was it? Man, they have some crappy rockets..


Care to stand somewhere next to a falling 'crappy rocket'?
Care to stand in a house with such a 'crappy rocket' falling on its roof?

Didn't think so.

woe dude.. chill out.. I was simply making an observation.

 

[yairhol]

cease fire violation # 9 or #10 or #15

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3665905,00.html

Rocket lands in central Ashkelon


Air Raid siren sounds in southern city shortly after 7 am, followed by explosion. Grad rocket lands between buildings in residential neighborhood; three people suffer shock, several cars damaged

A Grad rocket landed between buildings in a residential neighborhood in the city center as residents were making their way to school and to work.

And on Monday, yesterday:

A Qassam rocket was fired at the Sderot area on Monday evening. The Color Red rocket alert system was activated in the city and in the Sha'ar Hanegev Regional Council at around 6:50 pm, followed by a blast. There were no reports of injuries or damage.

several mortar shells fired from Gaza landed in open areas within the Eshkol Regional Council. There were no reports of injuries or damage in the barrage, which took place just before noon.

Who was the forum member that said that Hamas were not intentionally aiming at civilians but rather fire at the IDF?

 

[portlandatheist]

LOL.. have you guys seen these rockets? It left a hole in the ground, and that was it? Man, they have some crappy rockets..

The one guy picks up a rocket and walks away with it. He also picks up a brown bag that's next to it. Since the rocket landed near a kindergarden, I can only assume that Hamas was trying to get someone their bagged lunch.



... by disproportionate response.. I guess that means "brace yourselves for a lot more civilian casualties"...

Here is another video:

 

[portlandatheist]

woe dude.. chill out.. I was simply making an observation.

Apologizing for the war crimes against innocent Israelis? You disgust me. These rocket attacks are real terror.

 

[lupus_in_fabula]

These rocket attacks are real terror.

...and what do you think bombs, missiles and white phosphorous is for the civilians in Gaza? Do you think there's a difference from their point of view?

 

[IDB87]

...and what do you think bombs, missiles and white phosphorous is for the civilians in Gaza? Do you think there's a difference from their point of view?

No one has ever said bombs, missles and white phosphorous are not real terrors to the people of Gaza.

 

[gdnp]

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3665905,00.html


And on Monday, yesterday:

So we have demonstrated that Israel's Gaza incursion, despite the cost of 1300 Palestinian lives and 13 Israeli lives and lord knows how many lesser injuries and millions of dollars in damage, have not stopped Palestinian extremists from firing missiles into Israel.

What is your point? That another incursion will be more successful? Or are you advocating another strategy?

Who was the forum member that said that Hamas were not intentionally aiming at civilians but rather fire at the IDF?

I have never heard anyone make that statement. I did at one time state that I did not believe the palestinians had the capability to target anyone in particular with their projectiles, and that if they could target the IDF they probably would.

 

[portlandatheist]

...and what do you think bombs, missiles and white phosphorous is for the civilians in Gaza? Do you think there's a difference from their point of view?

And I do not "lol" at the bombs, missiles, and white phosphorous in Gaza.

 

[SteveGrenard]

HAMAS apparently has "escalated" their violation of the cease fire:

GAZA: Palestinian militants fired a long-range rocket from Gaza into the Israeli coastal city of Ashkelon on Tuesday and Israel retaliated with airstrikes against smuggling tunnels and a Hamas outpost in southern Gaza, as Egyptian-brokered talks for a sustainable cease-fire ground on in Cairo with no obvious progress.No injuries were reported on the Palestinian or Israeli side.

But the rocket that fell near a clinic in central Ashkelon was the first of its kind since a tenuous calm took hold more than two weeks ago, presenting a new challenge to Israeli leaders before elections Feb. 10 and raising the possibility of a military escalation should the Egyptian initiative fail.

http://www.iht.com/articles/2009/02/03/mideast/mideast.4-421548.php

In other news Hillary has asked Hamas to please stop doing this. She also threatened that she is going to send her mid-east envoy to the region in a few weeks.

Feb. 3 (Bloomberg) -- Secretary of State Hillary Clinton said Hamas must end attacks on Israel and meet conditions that “have not and will not change” on recognizing Israel’s right to exist and accepting current peace agreements.

“There were rockets yesterday, there were rockets this morning,” Clinton told reporters at the State Department in Washington, referring to firings by Gaza Strip militants on Israeli communities. “It is very difficult to ask any nation to do anything other than defend itself in the wake of that kind of consistent attack.

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=apGGjnYbgW8U&refer=home

 

[Gangularis]

Apologizing for the war crimes against innocent Israelis? You disgust me. These rocket attacks are real terror.

Innocent is subjective, considering they understand the basis for how their land was obtained.. I'd beg to differ. Anyway, I'm glad I could disgust you, but I wasn't apologizing for anything, or for anyone.

And I do not "lol" at the bombs, missiles, and white phosphorous in Gaza.

Why not? The difference in magnitude with regards to the military capability between gaza and israel is funny. You just have to laugh at how disproportionate it is... that's all I was laughing it. Quit being so mellow dramatic. When you see me laughing at the bloodied faces of children, then I'll validate your response.