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Fascist America, in 10 easy steps

That Blackwater may have been founded before 911 and Bush and Iraq does not mean their current status was not created by Bush. Clearly they would be no more than a run of the mill security firm without those events. A run of the mill security firm they are not.

If you want your head in the sand about Plame, be my guest. Most people get it.

I'll see your quote and add one, "It can't happen here". Course not. :rolleyes:

Fortunately, not yet.
 
skeptigirl,

I think people are disagreeing because the scale was insufficient, the execution was disorganized, and because Bush's control over America was hampered in a few key situations like Rasul, Hamdan, and Hamdi. All the while, the press and popular culture were free to roast Bush alive.
 
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Did you steal that list from Letterman?

You could cut and paste things from every administration and come close to filling that list how you want it.

I give your list a C+ though.

Ion seemed really into it, IIRC. That's something to cherish.
 
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10) "If a President does it, it's not illegal." Cheney's proud of claiming the authority to authorize torture.

Is that actually a quote from Cheney? I remember when Nixon said that (exactly as you quoted IIRC), but I can't find any references to Cheney saying it (as quoted- lots of references saying that he liked the idea, but none actually quoting him as saying it).

If you want your head in the sand about Plame, be my guest. Most people get it.

I'm not sure what you're referring to there. Are you talking about the motive or are you claiming that laws were broken and Fitzpatrick couldn't figure which law and/or who broke them. (Or is Fitzpatrick part of the coverup?)
 
Is that actually a quote from Cheney? I remember when Nixon said that (exactly as you quoted IIRC), but I can't find any references to Cheney saying it (as quoted- lots of references saying that he liked the idea, but none actually quoting him as saying it).



"...preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States" my eye.
 
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2) Perhaps one doesn't think Gitmo compares to the Gulag. It doesn't if you compare sheer size and the fact the population interred at Gitmo were not citizens of the jailer's own country. It does compare if you look at incarceration and torture without rights or a fair trial.

Is there evidence that torture occurred at Guantanamo Bay? Under the rules of war, are all of those inmates actually allowed to be put on trial?

6) No fly list, Gitmo, Special Renditions

No fly lists aren't arbitrary detention and release.

9) This was a common theme in Rove's political approach to dissent.

Evidence? I seem to recall reading about the recent election of a key dissident to some position of power. What was his name? Oh yes, Obama. Has he been convicted of treason yet?
 
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All the while, the press and popular culture were free to roast Bush alive.
I think this more than anything was crucial (not that I think for a moment we were in any significant danger of becoming facist and I give skeptigirl props for her OP which I think was actually pretty good).

However it's really not that easy to take freedom away from Americans. If you shine the light of day on the actions of an administration it's hard to pull the wool over their eyes for too long.
 
Did you steal that list from Letterman?

You could cut and paste things from every administration and come close to filling that list how you want it.

I give your list a C+ though.

Ion seemed really into it, IIRC. That's something to cherish.

Your post was 100% free of meaningful content.

Feel free to try again.
 
Well, now that it's been 2 years since the thread was started, maybe you all would like to think about the state of the country Bush has left it in

(Shrug)

First our "political analysts" claim Bush is a fascist who will become a dictator, cancel the elections, proclaim martial law, abolish the constitution, legalize torture, and put everybody he dislikes in jail. When none of that happens, they claim that they weren't REALLY wrong because, after all, Bush did a lousy job as president. They then throw a hissy fit about how evil conservatives are and how ashamed of themselves they should be.

That's like a "psychic" predicting the kidnapped person is held in a cave by a black man with a beard, far away. When it turns out the kidnapped child was actually playing in the home of a white kid without a beard close by, the psychic claims a "hit" because, at least, they got the abductor's gender right. They then throw a hissy fit about how evil skeptics are and how ashamed of themselves they should be.
 
Naomi Wolf started with saying America is fascist by predicting a lot of horrible, horrible things Bush will do. When he did none of those things, naturally her defenders claim became not that America is fascist, but that America is "stating to become fascist".

But America (like most other countries) is ALWAYS "starting to become fascist" AND "starting to become socialist" AND "starting to become antisemitic" AND "starting to become anti-Muslim" and "starting to become" a zillion other things. That's because every event that is not 100% exactly in the absolute middle of the political spectrum can be seen as "evidence" that America is "starting to become" something: when a Republican is elected America is "on its way to fascism", when a democrat, it's "on its way to socialism" (or communism).

It's just an attempt to make Naomi Wolf look less than 100% wrong. She was. But then again, most pundits are wrong most of the time. Ah, if only they were ALWAYS wrong! We could then use them as a sort of true north to discover what's going to happen, by simply taking the opposite view.

The problem is that they are sometimes right -- if only by chance -- and thus listening to their predictions is useless, since you gain no knowlege about what will happen. When they say X will happen, you cannot conclude that X will happen -- obviously -- but you cannot conlcude X will not happen, either. So after listening to a pundit go on for two hours about how X is an absolute certainty, the bottom line is, "X will either happen, or it will not".

So why listen to them?
 
Is that actually a quote from Cheney? I remember when Nixon said that (exactly as you quoted IIRC), but I can't find any references to Cheney saying it (as quoted- lots of references saying that he liked the idea, but none actually quoting him as saying it).
Did you miss the Cheney interview


or can you not add 2 & 2?



Waterboarding is torture

Waterboarding is torture

Waterboarding is torture

2+2

torture is illegal

torture is illegal

torture is illegal



I'm not sure what you're referring to there. Are you talking about the motive or are you claiming that laws were broken and Fitzpatrick couldn't figure which law and/or who broke them. (Or is Fitzpatrick part of the coverup?)
So you can't figure out this one either? What? Scooter just had a grudge against pretty blonds? Care to tell us what your version is?
 
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skeptigirl,

I think people are disagreeing because the scale was insufficient, the execution was disorganized, and because Bush's control over America was hampered in a few key situations like Rasul, Hamdan, and Hamdi. All the while, the press and popular culture were free to roast Bush alive.
If anyone bothered to read or listen to Wolf, they'd have heard she was talking a slippery slope not a final done deal plunge.

But then, the Bush apologists haven't quite opened their eyes so no surprise there.
 
I think this more than anything was crucial (not that I think for a moment we were in any significant danger of becoming facist and I give skeptigirl props for her OP which I think was actually pretty good).

However it's really not that easy to take freedom away from Americans. If you shine the light of day on the actions of an administration it's hard to pull the wool over their eyes for too long.
RandFan, you have a brain in your head after all. Perhaps I was rash to put you on ignore.
 
Is there evidence that torture occurred at Guantanamo Bay?
Uhhh yeah! Earth to gtc, Cheney had no qualms about it.

Under the rules of war, are all of those inmates actually allowed to be put on trial?
So those Geneva Conventions Bush said didn't apply to 'enemy combatants' had nothing to do with rules of war then? Just rules in peacetime?

No fly lists aren't arbitrary detention and release.
Suit yourself. I suppose I could have put the no fly list under 5, 7 or 9.

Evidence? I seem to recall reading about the recent election of a key dissident to some position of power. What was his name? Oh yes, Obama. Has he been convicted of treason yet?
They did try the "associates with terrorists" campaign slogan.

Too bad, they failed. Reason is restored to the USA. Hooray for the good guys!!
 
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Naomi Wolf started with saying America is fascist by predicting a lot of horrible, horrible things Bush will do. When he did none of those things, naturally her defenders claim became not that America is fascist, but that America is "stating to become fascist". ...
And just what was it about "Letter of Warning" that you didn't understand?
 
If anyone bothered to read or listen to Wolf, they'd have heard she was talking a slippery slope not a final done deal plunge.

The change, at least to me, was not bad enough to even mention it the same breath with fascism. To do so smacks of alarmism.

But then, the Bush apologists haven't quite opened their eyes so no surprise there.

Oh good God, I'm nowhere near a Bush apologist. Off the top of my head, the only action of his I supported was Afghanistan. Everything else sucked.

Stem cells
Speaking skills
Cronyism
Black and white stance on "evildoers"
Affirmative action
Supreme Court Justices
Gun control
Manipulation of administrative law
Evolution
Habeus Corpus
Torture
Intentionally twisting of legal phrasing
The unitary executive
UN ambassador choice
Flag burning
Gay rights
Abortion
Death Penalty
Marijuana decriminalization
His personal war on science

etc.
etc.
etc.

Heh...Bush apologist.
 
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From the Revolution, to the War of 1812, to the Civil War to World War 1 to the Great Depression to World War Two to the Korean War to Viet Nam to the Cold War to Desert Storm to 9/11 to Afghanistan to Iraq and Katrina and every conflict and disaster in between that I haven't mentioned... the United States of America just keeps not turning into a fascist dictatorship.

Given the defendants established pattern of behavior, I'm finding little cause to be concerned.
 
Your post was 100% free of meaningful content.

Feel free to try again.

Perhaps you might like to try again:

You could cut and paste things from every administration and come close to filling that list how you want it.



Uhhh yeah! Earth to gtc, Cheney had no qualms about it.

Personal attacks just make you look like a crank.

If you have evidence that torture occurred at Guantanamo Bay you should provide it.

So those Geneva Conventions Bush said didn't apply to 'enemy combatants' had nothing to do with rules of war then? Just rules in peacetime?

What a nonsense. Not every combatant is a prisoner of war.

They did try the "associates with terrorists" campaign slogan.

Which he did. You need to get a grip. You are suggesting that a rival candidate pointing out that someone associated with a terrorist is evidence that the US is descending into fascism.

Too bad, they failed. Reason is restored to the USA. Hooray for the good guys!!

They lost an election. Don't you think that a political party losing a fair election is evidence that the US was never heading down the path of fascism?
 
1) I think "war on terror" can certainly be said to have been used by Bush, et al, to manipulate people for political goals.

I'm curious, skeptigirl. Do you agree with the statement "Terror is the new communism"?

2) Perhaps one doesn't think Gitmo compares to the Gulag.

It doesn't. It doesn't even come close. That you'd even suggest it does says more about you than you know.

3) ... 9)

:rolleyes:

10) "If a President does it, it's not illegal."

Funny how nothing that Clinton did seems to have been "illegal" in your mind. Did you apply this statement? :D
 

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