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Fascist America, in 10 easy steps

I'm sorry I missed this thread the first time around. A perfectly good opportunity to laugh at both Skeptigirl and Naomi Wolf in the same thread?!

Oh well, what a disappointment...
Well, now that it's been 2 years since the thread was started, maybe you all would like to think about the state of the country Bush has left it in. I bet you all are just peachy-proud of what a good job ol' Georgie has done as Pres.
 
Well, now that it's been 2 years since the thread was started, maybe you all would like to think about the state of the country Bush has left it in. I bet you all are just peachy-proud of what a good job ol' Georgie has done as Pres.

You don't seriously think that do you?
 
Well, now that it's been 2 years since the thread was started, maybe you all would like to think about the state of the country Bush has left it in. I bet you all are just peachy-proud of what a good job ol' Georgie has done as Pres.

You have finely honed skeptical skills. I suspect you can work out what is wrong with your post.
 
From what I remember,

Naomi Wolf was not saying that America is a fascist country. To my knowledge she was trying to point out

1.) The 10 characteristics fascist countries exhibit so as to warn people if a country is starting to become fascist (i.e. the more characteristics the country exhibits) before it actually happens

2.) The US is taking on *some* characteristics -- enough to be disturbing-- that fascist countries exhibit


INRM
 
Fascism is a continuum, part of the political spectrum. There are no clearly defined borders between fascist and non-fascist.

INRM said:
2.) The US is taking on *some* characteristics -- enough to be disturbing-- that fascist countries exhibit
The US has had more fascist tendencies than other western democracies for a long time. Examples include more flagwaving, more authoritarian behaviour by law enforcement officers and a more prominent and powerful national "leader" than other democracies. Doesn't make the country fascist, though. Potentially worrisome, yes.
 
maybe you all would like to think about the state of the country Bush has left it in.

A state in which it is possible for a black man to be elected to the highest office?

From what I remember,

Naomi Wolf was not saying that America is a fascist country. To my knowledge she was trying to point out

1.) The 10 characteristics fascist countries exhibit so as to warn people if a country is starting to become fascist (i.e. the more characteristics the country exhibits) before it actually happens

And when will that happen? Did any of these characteristics include "not get re-elected"?
 
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The US has had more fascist tendencies than other western democracies for a long time.

"The dark night of fascism is always descending in the United States and yet lands only in Europe."
- attributed to Jean-François Revel
 
I can't help but think about what I saw during this last election cycle here in Portland:
A car at Fred Meyer with a McCain/Palin sticker and somebody had spray painted "Fascist" on their vehicle. Another person who video taped their neighbor's young child removing their McCain signs from their lawn and my own neighbors being too fearful to put up McCain signs in their yard in fear of property damage. Additionally, Portland had riot control police on standby election night just in case the wrong person had won the election. Many cars around here sport the bumper sticker "not my president!" in reference to Bush and I'm sure they are all over other cities as well.
Its obvious to me that there are a lot of liberals who have fascist tendencies and have no respect for the democratic system. Obama is my president and Bush was my president, whether I voted for either of them or not! We live in a democracy and need to respect our fellow citizens equal rights and equal representation.
The person who spray paints "fascist" on someone else's car because they are not voting in a matter they approve of, is the real fascist.
 
I can't help but think about what I saw during this last election cycle here in Portland:
A car at Fred Meyer with a McCain/Palin sticker and somebody had spray painted "Fascist" on their vehicle. Another person who video taped their neighbor's young child removing their McCain signs from their lawn and my own neighbors being too fearful to put up McCain signs in their yard in fear of property damage. Additionally, Portland had riot control police on standby election night just in case the wrong person had won the election. Many cars around here sport the bumper sticker "not my president!" in reference to Bush and I'm sure they are all over other cities as well.
Its obvious to me that there are a lot of liberals who have fascist tendencies and have no respect for the democratic system. Obama is my president and Bush was my president, whether I voted for either of them or not! We live in a democracy and need to respect our fellow citizens equal rights and equal representation.
The person who spray paints "fascist" on someone else's car because they are not voting in a matter they approve of, is the real fascist.
Thank you. Stand by for pitchforks and torches. ;)

DR
 
Denying that America is fascist is the 11th sign that America is fascist.
 
Remember America has been on the cusp of Fascism since the Nixon years. Before that it was on the cusp of Communism. Before that it was in danger of becoming a Monarchy.

With that in mind I predict that the next thing America is in danger of becoming is a cybernetic hive collective ala The Borg.
 
egslim,

The US has had more fascist tendencies than other western democracies for a long time.

I'd have to agree -- for like the past 40-50 years. It's not good, and certainly not what our Founding Fathers had in mind.

Examples include more flagwaving, more authoritarian behaviour by law enforcement officers and a more prominent and powerful national "leader" than other democracies. Doesn't make the country fascist, though. Potentially worrisome, yes.

The "potentially worrisome" fact is kind of the point.


Tomwaits,

It's after Google becomes aware.

Huh?


INRM
 
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Well since this 2 yr old thread was bumped I thought it might be worth looking at what the author I posted the opinion of said at the time and compare it to what has happened since.

Here are the steps from a web article discussing them in detail. I bolded that bit because people in this thread seem to equate posting something you see value in to whatever it is being your exact opinion. I saw parallels here. Whether or not Wolf said flaky things elsewhere was irrelevant and I did not post some rant we were all headed to Nazism. I merely noted the woman's book had some merit.
* 1. Invoke a terrifying internal and external enemy
* 2. Create a gulag
* 3. Develop a thug caste
* 4. Set up an internal surveillance system
* 5. Harass citizens' groups
* 6. Engage in arbitrary detention and release
* 7. Target key individuals
* 8. Control the press
* 9. Dissent equals treason
* 10. Suspend the rule of law
1) I think "war on terror" can certainly be said to have been used by Bush, et al, to manipulate people for political goals.

2) Perhaps one doesn't think Gitmo compares to the Gulag. It doesn't if you compare sheer size and the fact the population interred at Gitmo were not citizens of the jailer's own country. It does compare if you look at incarceration and torture without rights or a fair trial.

3) Blackwater is but one of several private mercenary armies created by Bush policies. We haven't seen private armies in the US since the Pinkertons. The fact Blackwater turned up in New Orleans after Katrina should concern everyone.

4) Turns out, just like I said, the reason Bush didn't want FISA warrants he could have gotten after the fact was because he was spying on people illegally. Stay tuned on this one.

5) Outing Valerie Plame, firing all the Justice Dept attorneys not cooperating in political harassment schemes

6) No fly list, Gitmo, Special Renditions

7) & 8) The massive wire surveillance targeted the press.

9) This was a common theme in Rove's political approach to dissent.

10) "If a President does it, it's not illegal." Cheney's proud of claiming the authority to authorize torture. And using Plame's outing to silence whistle blowers wasn't legal. Did they care? Of course not.



These are examples of the country my parents warned me about. Except they were describing the problems with communist totalitarianism.

Most of this was going on when Wolf wrote the piece. Now that Bush is no longer able to pardon his cronies and stop the subpoenas, we'll see what has gone on in the Justice Department and the NSA.
 
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2) Perhaps one doesn't think Gitmo compares to the Gulag. It doesn't if you compare sheer size and the fact the population interred at Gitmo were not citizens of the jailer's own country. It does compare if you look at incarceration and torture without rights or a fair trial.

Uh, no. Treatment at Gitmo really doesn't compare to the gulags. And most importantly from the perspective of whether or not the US is fascist, neither does its very purpose. You will not find political opponents of Bush in there.

3) Blackwater is but one of several private mercenary armies created by Bush policies.

Nope. Blackwater was created in 1997.

And using Plame's outing to silence whistle blowers wasn't legal.

I've seen no evidence that this was the motive. Nor have I seen any evidence that the outing actually broke any laws. The only person to get in any legal trouble got busted for lying to investigators, not for having done anything regarding the outing itself.

These are examples of the country my parents warned me about.

I refer you, once again, to my previous quote: "The dark night of fascism is always descending in the United States and yet lands only in Europe."
 

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