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Split Thread The validity of classical physics (split from: DWFTTW)

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Humber,

Your links yielded:-

Drag Force on Single Piles in Clay Subjected to Surcharge Loading

And

Composite Materials with Viscoelastic Stiffness Greater Than Diamond

Could you point out where, in either article, it talks about a phenomenon, aplicable to physics in general and aerodynamics in particular, refered to as "Negative Drag"?
 
New list- things Humber doesn't want to talk about
(Or, what i won't abmit I was wrong about!!)

My starter for ten:-

"KE is zero in all frames"

"Cavitation is term used in relation to gas release"

Any others?
 
Humber,
Could you point out where, in either article, it talks about a phenomenon, aplicable to physics in general and aerodynamics in particular, refered to as "Negative Drag"?

And i'd like to know what that all has to do with electrical currents, as humber claims.

But then, for moving goalposts, everything is just fine for humber, as long as that way he can distract people from the actually discussed flaw's in his arguments.
 
Any others?

"Those basic axioms have been proven."

"Mathematics will simply be an obfuscation."

"If they pass when what the law regards as "in the same direction" there must be an instant when their relative velocities are zero."

"No, it does not have zero KE relative to you. It has zero velocity relative to you. "

Etc. etc.
 
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Interesting slip.

So what are we today, Jungian or Freudian?
Interesting lack of worldliness again...

The prison library has just taken stock of some new items. One of them is by Foucault, and I am sure you know what he says about prisons! I imagine the warder will confiscate them.


draw /dr<revc>:/ v. Pa. t. drew /dru:/; pa. pple drawn / dr<revc>:n/.[OE dragan = ON draga, OFris. draga, OS dragan (Du. dragen), OHG tragan (G tragen) , Goth. (ga)dragan.]I Cause to move, pull.1 a v.t. Cause (something) to move towards, or past a part of, oneself by the application of force; pull. OE. b v.t. & i. Pull (something, esp. a vehicle or its load) so as to make it follow along behind; Hist. drag (a criminal) on a hurdle etc. to the place of execution. Formerly also fig., agree (with); be in a like situation with. ME.c v.i. Be drawn; admit of being drawn. M17.<unknown>2 v.t. Tear apart; pull in pieces, asunder. ME–E18.3 a v.t. & i. Pull back the string of (a bow) ready to shoot; pull back (the arrow) on the string; hoist (a sail); pull up (a drawbridge); pull out (a bolt, an organ- stop); haul in (a net). ME.b v.t. Pull (a veil etc.) over something so as to conceal it; pull (a curtain, blinds) open or shut. LME.4 v.t. Cause to come, move, or go (from or to some place, position, or condition); lead, bring, take, convey, put. obs. exc. as assoc. with other senses. ME.<unknown>5 v.t. Render into another style of writing; translate. ME–M16.<unknown>6 v.t. fig. Adduce, appeal to for confirmation; assign, attribute; turn aside to a purpose, pervert. ME–E18.7 v.t. & i. Contract, shrink; pull or become out of shape or place. Usu. as DRAWN a. LME.<unknown>8 v.t. Construct (a ditch, canal, wall) from one point to another. LME–L18.<unknown>9 v.t. Pass (food) through or through a strainer; bring to the required consistency thus. LME–L18.<unknown>10 Operate on (a number) with one of the processes of arithmetic: add to, together; multiply into; subtract out of. LME–E19.11 v.t. Naut. Of a ship: require (a specified depth of water) for floating. M16.<unknown>12 v.t. Bring (the edges of a tear etc.) together by sewing; mend (a rent). L16–E17.13 v.t. In various games, direct or divert (a ball) in some way; spec. in Cricket (now rare), divert (the ball) to the on side of the wicket with the bat; Golf drive (the ball) purposely to the left of a right-handed player or vice versa; Bowls cause (the bowl) to travel in a curve to the desired point. M19.1a ADDISON He drew a Paper of Verses out of his Pocket.F. BURNEY I..drew my hat over my face.G. GREENE Josef..drew the string on which the revolver dangled a couple of inches higher.I. MCEWAN He took her wrist and drew her into the street.refl.: W. C. RUSSELL Wilfrid..drew himself erect.b SHAKES. Oth. Think every bearded fellow that’s but yok’d May draw with you.D. BAGLEY There were carts pushed by hand or drawn by donkey.3a AV 1 Kings 22:34 A certain man drew a bow at a venture.W. LONGMAN He then drew the bolt, the door was opened.T. H. WHITE Boys..are inclined to catch hold of the nock of the arrow when they draw.4 T.
HERBERT Hee..drawes his forces against Rantas.
W. IRVING He hastened to draw him from the seductions of the garden.
11 J. CONRAD She drew too much water to cross the bar.II Come; go.
14 v.i. Come together; move or make one’s way towards; also w. advs. in specialized senses (see below). Formerly without adv. or advb. phr.: move, come, go. OE. <unknown>15 v.refl. Go towards or to; withdraw from. ME–E17.<unknown>16 v.i. Tend, approach, to or towards some condition, state, etc. ME–E17.17 v.i. Move in time to or towards an event, a particular time, etc. ME.18 v.i. Hunting. Of a hound etc.: track game by its scent; move slowly towards the game after pointing. (Foll. by after, on, upon.) L16.19 v.i. Gradually get further away from or gain on an antagonist or competitor in a race etc. E19.15 W. RALEIGH As their people increased, they drew themselves more westerly towards the Red sea.16 R. KNOLLES Of a darke colour, somewhat drawing toward a violet.17 B. JOWETT The days of Socrates are drawing to a close.III Take in; attract.20 a v.t. Take (a breath); take (air etc.) into the lungs. See also draw breath s.v. BREATH. ME.b v.i. Of a chimney, pipe, etc.: promote or allow a current of air through it. Of a smoker: suck at a pipe etc. M18.21 v.t. Attract by physical force, as a magnet; tend to become covered or affected with (rust etc.). ME.22 a v.t. Attract (a person) by affecting his or her inclination, sympathies, etc.; cause (the mind, eyes, etc.) to become directed to, from, etc., or attracted; lead (a person) into, from, etc. (a course of action, condition, etc.). ME.b v.i. Exercise allurement or attraction; prove an attraction; attract crowds. L16.23 v.i. & †t. Gather together, collect, assemble. ME.24 v.t. Cause (an enemy etc.) to fall on or upon a person; bring (disaster etc.) on or upon; bring about as a result, bring on. ME.25 v.t. Induce (a person) to do. M16.20b F. MARRYAT The fire does not draw well.R. CHANDLER I finished filling the pipe, put a match to it, got it drawing.21 E. KIRKE The rod draws the electricity from the air.fig.: J. TILLOTSON The blessings it will draw down upon us.22a ADDISON To draw the Eyes of the World upon her.THOMAS HUGHES It is wonderful..how you feel drawn to a man who feeds you well.L. J. JENNINGS A great bereavement..drew his mind from public affairs.G. GREENE I feel an enormous desire to draw attention to myself.S. BELLOW He did not want to be drawn into a quarrel.b J. R. LOWELL Mr. Emerson always draws.23 A. RADCLIFFE Our desolate party drew round it.24 T. MARTIN Rage drew on Thyestes the vengeance of heaven.25 M. LASKI One of the things that had drawn him to ask her to dance.IV Take out; deprive.26 a v.t. Remove or extract (an object) from what it is fixed or embedded in; esp. take (a playing-card or suit) from a pack. (Foll. by from.) ME.b v.t. & i. Take (a weapon) from a sheath or holster in readiness for immediate use. ME.27 a v.t. & i. Pull or take (one thing) from a number in order to decide something by chance; obtain or win (something) in this way. ME.b v.t. Set apart (sheep) from a flock; separate (seeds) from the husks. L15.28 a v.t. & †i. Raise (water) from a well etc. by hauling or pumping; obtain (beer etc.) from a cask or (water) from a tap; run (a bath); cause (blood) to flow from an incision etc. ME.b v.t. Extract (liquor, juice, etc.) by suction, pressure, infusion, or distillation. M16.c v.i. Of tea: infuse. E19.29 a v.t. Take or obtain from a source; derive; deduce, infer, (a conclusion). ME.b v.t. Take, receive, or obtain (money) from a source of supply. L16.c v.i. Obtain information, resources, etc., from. E19.30 v.t. Cause to come out or appear; elicit, evoke; spec. cause (a particular playing- card) to be played by another player. ME.31 v.t. Extract something from; empty, drain, exhaust, deplete; spec. disembowel (a fowl etc., Hist. a criminal after hanging) . ME.b Remove coals from (a fire, furnace, etc.). E19.32 v.t. Drag or pull a net through or along (a river etc.) for fish; search (a wood etc.) for game. LME.33 v.t. & i.a Cause a flow of (blood, matter, etc.) to a particular part of the body; promote suppuration. LME.b Drain off or away, esp. by means of a channel. E17.<unknown>34 v.t. Withdraw (stakes, a racehorse, etc.). L16–M19.35 v.t. Force (a badger or fox) from its hole. M19.36 v.t. Elicit information or conversation from (a person). colloq. M19.37 v.t. Rouse (a person) to action, speech, or anger; irritate, exasperate. colloq. M19.38 v.t. & i. Finish (a game etc.) with no one a winner or scores equal. (Earlier as DRAWN ppl a. 2.) M19.26 T. HARDY He drew the corks of the mineral waters.H. ROTH He would draw several of her teeth.E. BOWEN He kept drawing long black horsehairs from the seat of his chair.b R. JARRELL He drew a big revolver and he shot me.27a STEELE Neither of them had drawn the Thousand Pound.W. MORRIS We..shared the spoil by drawing short and long.TOLKIEN They now drew lots for the watches.28a H. ROBBINS He..walked over to the sink, and drew a glass of water.c F. TUOHY The two women..waited for the Indian tea to draw.29a A. FLEMING The stocke from whence he draweth his descent.Daily Telegraph Gilt-edged investors were looking a bit happier.., drawing comfort from the improving pound.b B. PYM Letty had been retired for a week and had drawn the first payment of her pension.32 A. EDEN Hounds were drawing the home coverts.33 R. D. BLACKMORE His poultice began to draw.36 J. SIMMS I tried to involve him in a political discussion,..but he refused to be drawn.V Extend.39 v.t. Pull out to a greater length; extend, lengthen; prolong, protract. Usu. foll. by out. ME.b Make (wire) by drawing metal through successively smaller holes; elongate and attenuate (a sliver of cotton etc.) by passage through pairs of rollers revolving at successively greater speeds. E16.<unknown>40 v.t. & i. Amount to or to. LME–M16.41 v.i. Naut. Of a sail: swell out tightly with the wind. E17.39 T. ELLWOOD I Prayed often, and drew out my Prayers to a great length.P. THEROUX A man melting tubes of glass and drawing them thin.VI Make, depict.42 a v.t. Trace (a line or figure), make (a picture), by drawing a pen, pencil, etc., across a surface; cut (a furrow) with a ploughshare. ME.b v.i. Draw pictures, practise the art of drawing. M16.c v.t. Represent by a drawing, depict; fig. represent in words, describe. L16.43 = draw up (b) below. Formerly also, write (a story), compose (a song). ME.<unknown>44 v.t. Devise, contrive; set in order, arrange. M16–M17.45 v.t. Shape or carve (stone, wood, etc.) by shaving thin slices off it. M17.46 v.t. Write out (a cheque etc.) in due form to authorize payment. (Foll. by on, upon the person etc. that has to pay.) M17.47 v.i. Draw a cheque etc. on or upon a person etc.; call on or upon a person for or for funds, or any source for or for something. L17.48 v.t. Make, formulate, (a comparison, contrast, distinction, etc.). L18.42a J. RHYS She took a sharp stick and drew lines and circles on the earth under the tree.43 L. STEPHEN Langton had employed Chambers..to draw his will.44 F. HAWKINS The matter of any Book or Science, drawn into Indexes or Tables.47 P. ACKROYD There were few intellectual models upon which to draw.V. GLENDINNING Edith was drawing deeply on her childhood memories for this poetry.Phrases: draw a bead on: see BEAD n. 4c. draw a blank fail in a search; elicit no response. draw a veil (over): see VEIL n. 5. draw bit, draw bridle, draw rein check one’s horse or (fig.) oneself. draw breath: see BREATH. draw bridle: see draw bit above. draw in one’s horns: see HORN n. draw it mild fig. [f. drawing beer] be moderate, not exaggerate. draw level (with) come from behind to a position alongside in a race etc. draw one’s steel: see STEEL n.1 draw pig on pork, draw pig on bacon: see PIG n.1 draw one’s sword against take up arms against, attack (lit. & fig.). draw rein: see draw bit above. draw steel: see STEEL n.1 draw straws: see STRAW n. draw stumps: see STUMP n.1 draw the badger: see BADGER n.2 1. draw the cloth arch. remove the tablecloth after a meal, clear away. draw the line at: see LINE n.2 draw the longbow: see LONG a.1 draw the short straw: see STRAW n. draw the stumps: see STUMP n.1With advs. in specialized senses: draw back move backwards from one’s position, fig. withdraw from an undertaking. draw down (a) make (metal, plastic) thinner by hammering, stretching, etc.; (b) make a drawing of (a loan), borrow. draw forth evoke. draw in (a) entice (to do); deceive, take in; persuade to take part; make to include in a conversation; (b) draw tight, cause to shrink; (c) (of a day) approach its end, (of night) approach, (of successive evenings) become shorter; (d) (of a train etc.) enter a station; (of a vehicle) move towards the side of the road; (e) = sense 20a above. draw near (to) approach (lit. & fig.). draw off (a) withdraw (troops); move off; (b) drain away by a tap etc., esp. without disturbing the bottom or sediment of the liquid. draw on (a) come near; (b) bring on, involve as a consequence; (c) entice, allure; (d) pull on (a garment etc.). draw out (a) = draw up (b) below; (b) elicit, evoke; (c) lead out, detach, or array (troops); (of troops) move out of camp etc.; (d) induce to talk; (e) (of successive days) grow longer; (f) (of a train etc.) leave a station; (of a vehicle) move away from the side of the road. draw up (a) bring (esp. troops) or come into regular order; (b) compose (a document), esp. in a formally correct way; write out in due form; (c) come up with, come close to; gain on or overtake an antagonist in a race; (d) bring or come to a halt, pull up; (e) make oneself stiffly erect; (f) take up with (a person).



Translation: It finally became clear even to me that I was wrong in such a stupid and transparent way that I couldn't hide it anymore, so now I'm going to ignore it and move on to getting something else wrong instead.
No, after getting the following addmisions, even if inadvertent...
(1) For motion over the ground, KE relative to that ground is necessary
(2) Motion is relative, or relative to the ground according to circumstance
( the closing distance remark)
(3) That parked cars are indeed stationary
(4) Cars in transporters are not
(5) That any two objects i.e. even those on parallel highways, can be ascribed a magical force that binds them

...I thought that was enough.

I would be more worried about my 4-vector mathematical edifice, looking more and more like a toy on a belt. You did try the toy car and paper? No need really, most can just "see" it.

ETA;
"Those basic axioms have been proven."
Over-inflated ideas of Godel's work. Common in university halls
Also, you failed to address my remark that is was a lemma.

"Mathematics will simply be an obfuscation."
From you, always a bluff.
No substance. Told you that from the start.

"If they pass when what the law regards as "in the same direction" there must be an instant when their relative velocities are zero."
How else?
 
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No, after getting the following addmisions, even if inadvertent...
(1) For motion over the ground, KE relative to that ground is necessary
(2) Motion is relative, or relative to the ground according to circumstance
( the closing distance remark)
(3) That parked cars are indeed stationary
(4) Cars in transporters are not
(5) That any two objects i.e. even those on parallel highways, can be ascribed a magical force that binds them

...I thought that was enough.

Translation: run humber, run!!

So, humber - do you still think the relative velocity or KE between two passing cars moving at constant velocities is zero at some point?

Yes or no?
 
Translation: run humber, run!!

So, humber - do you still think the relative velocity or KE between two passing cars moving at constant velocities is zero at some point?

Yes or no?

(1) For motion over the ground, KE relative to that ground is necessary
(2) Motion is relative, or relative to the ground according to circumstance
( the closing distance remark)
(3) That parked cars are indeed stationary
(4) Cars in transporters are not
(5) That any two objects i.e. even those on parallel highways, can be ascribed a magical force that binds them
But I did get all those from only you, or do you deny that?

Yes to velocites.
Zero KE is your idea, and a pointless one. I was toying with you over that.
 
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The treadmill can be dismissed in minutes by simple logic, yet the topic extends to Einstein and "inertial frames". It is a domestic device, like a vacuum cleaner, but hangs upon metaphors. It is quite obviously a cart spinning on a belt. I can, and have, recreated the same effect by other methods.

You have? I'd like to see that. What methods did you use to create the same effect? Why not make a video of it and post it to Youtube?
 
And i'd like to know what that all has to do with electrical currents, as humber claims.

But then, for moving goalposts, everything is just fine for humber, as long as that way he can distract people from the actually discussed flaw's in his arguments.

Actually Christian, that was The Captain's claim.
However, there are electrical and mechanical analogues for negative resistance or drag.
How about discussing why the cart on the treadmill, is not like a toy car with a sheet of paper under it? Did you try it? You can buy these toys for less than 2 Euro.
 
But I did get all those from only you, or do you deny that?

1) yes
2) incomprehensible
3) no
4) no
5) no

Yes to velocites.

Good - so humber confirms that it believes that two cars with constant non-zero relative velocity have zero relative velocity.

I wonder which basic term it's misunderstanding this time? Any guesses?
 
You have? I'd like to see that. What methods did you use to create the same effect? Why not make a video of it and post it to Youtube?

I am going to do just that, Micheal_C.


Well, I have done other tests, but here is another.

attachment.php


Conditions are the same in each case. The balloons are simultaneously cut from their moorings. The observer is the same distance away in each case.
ETA:
The mooring is attached to the belt. The real wind blows left to right

In the real world, the balloons pass left to right w.r.t the observer.
On the belt, the observer passes by the "windspeed" balloons.
There is a difference, and it is arbitrarily large.
 

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How about discussing why the cart on the treadmill, is not like a toy car with a sheet of paper under it? Did you try it? You can buy these toys for less than 2 Euro.

Because discussing things with you is a fruitless effort. You are obviously too stupid to even understand the most basics principles of physics, as you have repeatedly shown by your posts.

And even if one would engage in a "discussion" with you, all you do is to move goalposts, evade questions, and act even more stupid with every post.

Also, you are reluctant to get educated, fail to understand what people are saying, and refuse to admit your own errors.

Really, no sense in trying to have meaningful conversation with you. You proved your inabilities through over a thousand posts. You made yourself the laughing stock, and obviously you are happy with that.

Well, i'm happy to have a really good laugh about you, sometimes together with my friends. That's all that keeps me here. You know, it's really rare to find so much stubbornness and idiocy concentrated in posts of a single person (that is, your posts). You make every IDer, sasquatch believer, over-unity crackpot, etc. look like little childs. You are truly the master of delusion.
 
Well, I have done other tests, but here is another.


Calling drawings about things you don't understand a "test", and to claim to have "done" that test, is just beyond stupidity.

Fact is, you have done exactly nothing. If you would have actually conducted such a test, you would have spotted your errors. But this way it is just proof that all your "tests" and stuff and purely in your mind, and based on misconceptions of the reality. But as usual, you blatantly fail to see that.
 
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In the real world, the balloons pass left to right w.r.t the observer.
On the belt, the observer passes by the "windspeed" balloons.
There is a difference, and it is arbitrarily large.

Ummm.... what is it?

Please explain, because to the rest of us "balloons pass left to right w.r.t the observer" and "observer passes the balloons right to left" sound strangely similar...
 
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Cavitation in a gas? Citation??

Relevence of Clay Piles and Composite materials to "Negative drag" in Phyics??

"Es buggered orf!!
 
Good - so humber confirms that it believes that two cars with constant non-zero relative velocity have zero relative velocity.

and, remind me, isn't there a formula somewhere that swohs that if velocity is zero, so is KE?

Oh, Right,applicable only when Humber SAY so!
 
attachment.php

In the real world, the balloons pass left to right w.r.t the observer.
On the belt, the observer passes by the "windspeed" balloons.
There is a difference, and it is arbitrarily large.
Nice drawing, I must say. And we seem to be getting closer.
I'm going to assume that the difference you refer to is the difference in distance between the balloons as they pass by the bunny?
This difference is not arbitrarily large, as I can state the exact limits of the difference.
For a small treadmill the boundary layer does not reach up to the balloons so they will arrive at the same time. The wind driven balloons will not. The difference will then be:

[latex]\small{
$ \int_{t_{snip}}^{t_{pass}} \int_{h_1}^{h_2}
\frac{\partial}{\partial h}} V_{wind}(h,t)
dh dt [/latex]

where h1 and h2 are the heights of the balloons above the surface. Vwind is the boundary layer windspeed, and tpass is the time the first balloon passes the bunny.

In the case of an infinitely long treadmill or trolley, the boundary layer thicknesses and velocity gradients will be about equal, making the difference 0.

This calculation assumes 2D laminar horizontal flow.
Anyone, feel free correct me if I've made a mistake. I do do that.
 
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I drew weary of it. KE land is such a silly place.
It doesn't matter is the point is solid or not, because it highlights the vapidity of the idea, and how little thought has been put in to it.
It is yet another demonstration that a simple daily occurrence, such as two cars passing, can have you all straining at the bit to find the nearest post-hoc patch, and then shoot yourselves in the foot, by inadvertently exposing another weakness elsewhere.
That's why.

Dang!! This is so classically humber I thought it was humb:boggled:
 
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