Moderated Steel structures cannot globally collapse due to gravity alone

Heiwa said:
You mean 'top side'? Yes, local, structural damages, there, to the very light weight structure. Bottom structure/legs undamaged, etc. Happens every time (off shore). But they are underwater and cannot be seen on your photos. Metamars is not happy with your pictures.
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Top side?? 3/4 of the Piper Alpha is destroyed by the fire. The other quarter is still standing but unusable. The fire was fought which saved this section. How on earth can a fire cause the collapse of a part which is under the water?? How does fire burn under the water?

The top section of an oil rig is not a very lightweight section either. What about the Adriatic IV? It sank due to the fire and the platform next to it was totally detroyed.

By fire. No planes, no previous damage. Just fire, because fire can destroy steel framed buildings and cause them to collapse. You lied and said they could not. Please avoid this thread in future and let them continue with the political claptrap. You spoil enough threads already.
 
In fact, if we want to be pernickety, the Piper Alpha structure spanned between the legs to a certain extent and hence the collapse of the upper material did not cause collapse of the lower section because there were fewer direct imapcts. In the other hand, as Truthers like to point out, the towers fell on their own footprint.
 
funk de fino said:
Top side?? 3/4 of the Piper Alpha is destroyed by the fire. The other quarter is still standing but unusable. The fire was fought which saved this section. How on earth can a fire cause the collapse of a part which is under the water?? How does fire burn under the water?

The top section of an oil rig is not a very lightweight section either. What about the Adriatic IV? It sank due to the fire and the platform next to it was totally detroyed.

By fire. No planes, no previous damage. Just fire, because fire can destroy steel framed buildings and cause them to collapse. You lied and said they could not. Please avoid this thread in future and let them continue with the political claptrap. You spoil enough threads already.
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It would appear that Piper Alpha consisted of a 170 meters tall steel structure of which 144 meters were below water resting on the bottom. On top of this steel structure, >20 meters above water, were a number of modules located - the top side. And these modules were destroyed by fire and explosions. No global collapse of the steel structure below the top side modules took place. The accident has been thoroughly investigated. You could only wish the WTC collapses would have been investigated in the same manner.
 
Starter for 10, what structure was used to support and construct the accommodation modules.

Warning; for obvious reasons, a significant proportion of Scots are rather familiar with North Sea oil rigs and know the answer to this.
 
Heiwa said:
It would appear that Piper Alpha consisted of a 170 meters tall steel structure of which 144 meters were below water resting on the bottom. On top of this steel structure, >20 meters above water, were a number of modules located - the top side. And these modules were destroyed by fire and explosions. No global collapse of the steel structure below the top side modules took place. The accident has been thoroughly investigated. You could only wish the WTC collapses would have been investigated in the same manner.
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Please explain how your posts are related to the OP. If you could do that you would not be a full of real dumb ideas on 9/11. Or it would explain why you are full of real dumb ideas on 9/11. Bouncing kids on beds, pizza boxes, they are not related to the OP are they?

The WTC collapse was investigated. We found terrorist took planes and impacted the WTC, started out of control fires, and the building fell. You ignore gravity and have delusional ideas about 9/11 based on nothing.
 
Heiwa said:
It would appear that Piper Alpha consisted of a 170 meters tall steel structure of which 144 meters were below water resting on the bottom. On top of this steel structure, >20 meters above water, were a number of modules located - the top side. And these modules were destroyed by fire and explosions. No global collapse of the steel structure below the top side modules took place. The accident has been thoroughly investigated. You could only wish the WTC collapses would have been investigated in the same manner.
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You are even more wrong than normal. I worked on rigs, my brother works on rigs, most of my friends work on rigs, I teach technicians about rigs, my father worked for an engineering company who made steel parts for rigs. I knew someone who died on the Piper Alpha and have spoken to people who were on it.

You on the otherhand just make up lies and false claims about things you have no idea about. The cause of the accident was investigated, however they did not investigate why the rest of the platform continued to burn and collapse.
 
funk de fino said:
cause of the accident was investigated, however they did not investigate why the rest of the platform continued to burn and collapse.
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On account, before Heiwa suggests it, that we would in fact have expected any steel structure subject to a massive conflagration to...well....fail.
 
You know, I really wonder why Heiwa even bothers (assuming that he actually believes what he says). Obviously, nobody here takes him seriously after all of his fiascoes, and there have been many. The 1/3 of the WTC dropped from the height of two miles not destroying the rest fiasco. The pizza box fiasco. The matchbox fiasco. The bathroom scale fiasco. The WTC7 vacuum device fiasco. Just to name a few. Is he trying to achieve a lifetime Stundie achievement award?
 
Goiing by Heiwa's reasoning Challenger should never have exploded, no shuttle had previously been destroyed by a failed o ring so neither should Challenger have been. Perhaps Heiwa should look into that too, maybe with the help of some washing liquid bottles and corn flakes boxes to make his models.
 
I read this thread and nowhere found what is supposed to be "global collapse" according to heiwa as he has dismissed all examples.
 
funk de fino said:
You are even more wrong than normal. I worked on rigs, my brother works on rigs, most of my friends work on rigs, I teach technicians about rigs, my father worked for an engineering company who made steel parts for rigs. I knew someone who died on the Piper Alpha and have spoken to people who were on it.

You on the otherhand just make up lies and false claims about things you have no idea about. The cause of the accident was investigated, however they did not investigate why the rest of the platform continued to burn and collapse.
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You don't suggest that 144 meters of steel structure below water was burning, do you? And it wasn't destroyed by anything dropping down from above water. The steel structure below water simply remained. Intact! Most of it is there today.
 
CORed said:
How do you know?
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Well, drop a steel structure using gravity only on a similar steel structure and see what happens! I assure you that no global collapse of the latter structure ensues. This experiment can also be simulated by FEA software.

Do you have a steel structure at home? Of course you have - your car. You have a car, I assume. Now, put it on the roof of your garage (I assume you have a garage) and put your wife's car below. Now push your car off the garage roof, so it crashes down due to gravity on your wife's car. Ensure that your wife is not sitting in her car, and avoid sitting in your own car during the experiment.

Does your wife's car globally collapse while your car remains intact? Or were there only local failures and global collapse was arrested? Or your wife's car was crushed down first, and your car was later detsroyed in a 'crush up'?

PS Car insurance does not pay for this type of experimental damages.
 
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Heiwa said:
Well, drop a steel structure using gravity only on a similar steel structure and see what happens! I assure you that no global collapse of the latter structure ensues. This experiment can also be simulated by FEA software.

Do you have a steel structure at home? Of course you have - your car. You have a car, I assume. Now, put it on the roof of your garage (I assume you have a garage) and put your wife's car below. Now push your car off the garage roof, so it crashes down due to gravity on your wife's car. Ensure that your wife is not sitting in her car, and avoid sitting in your own car during the experiment.

Does your wife's car globally collapse while your car remains intact? Or were there only local failures and global collapse was arrested? Or your wife's car was crushed down first, and your car was later detsroyed in a 'crush up'?

PS Car insurance does not pay for this type of experimental damages.
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Worst analogy ever.

You've now substituted cars for pizza boxes, well done.
 
What happened here Heiwa?

http://www3.gendisasters.com/bridge...ridge-under-construction-collapses,-june-1958

or here?

http://www.celebrateboston.com/disasters/industrial/pembertonmillcollapse.htm

and here?

http://www3.gendisasters.com/massachusetts/7758/south-framingham-ma-building-collapse-july-1906

another one

http://www3.gendisasters.com/new-york/3447/new-york,-ny-darlington-hotel-collapse,-feb-1904


This one is particularily important, a single steel beam fell and caused a progressive collape in the entire building

http://www3.gendisasters.com/alabama/2925/birmingham,-al-building-collapse,-apr-1900

another

http://www3.gendisasters.com/pennsy...kstown-steel-mill-building-collapse,-jul-1891

Reading these you will begin to see how these accidents become less and less frequent as time progresses. Each time they contribute to our understanding of what can happen, in order to help prevent it in the future. Large sections of building code deal specifically with progressive collapse and what can be done to prevent it.
 
aside from the different type of construction and the fact cars have pneumatic tyres and suspension, cars are designed to protect the occupants in the event of failure leading to collision. However, like with aircraft that isn't taken into account with building design. The buildings were designed to stand (although the circumstances that led to the collapse were either not considered or were ignored) they were not designed to resist collapse once started.
 
Why haven't the engineers and architects originally involved with the buildings come forward to defend themselves and say 'they shouldn't have collapsed, it must've been a cd.'
 
Heiwa said:
Well, drop a steel structure using gravity only on a similar steel structure and see what happens! I assure you that no global collapse of the latter structure ensues. This experiment can also be simulated by FEA software.

Do you have a steel structure at home? Of course you have - your car. You have a car, I assume. Now, put it on the roof of your garage (I assume you have a garage) and put your wife's car below. Now push your car off the garage roof, so it crashes down due to gravity on your wife's car. Ensure that your wife is not sitting in her car, and avoid sitting in your own car during the experiment.

Does your wife's car globally collapse while your car remains intact? Or were there only local failures and global collapse was arrested? Or your wife's car was crushed down first, and your car was later detsroyed in a 'crush up'?

PS Car insurance does not pay for this type of experimental damages.
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I'd explain scaling and the square-cube law to you, but I'm sure you wouldn't understand.
 
alexi_drago said:
Why haven't the engineers and architects originally involved with the buildings come forward to defend themselves and say 'they shouldn't have collapsed, it must've been a cd.'
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Actully the lead designer of WTC, Leslie Robertson debated this on a radio show against Steven Jones :)

And ofcourse he made Jones look silly. :)
 
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