Hamas & Israel Cease-Fire. Hamas Violates cease-fire.

[yairhol]

I hope it does not come as a surprise then if Israel continues with its attempts to get rid of the terrorist Hamas group.
The world forces a cease-fire between Israel and the Hamas. The Hamas are not in a position to say if they accept it or not.
They are de facto violating a cease-fire determined by the leaders of free world. Since Hamas is a terrorist group I can see them peeing back at us but they are still violating the cease-fire whether they accept it or not.

 

[Fiona]

And this applies equally to the un resolutions Israel ignores, does it?

 

[FireGarden]

It remains to be seen what they will say or claim. I suspect it goes something like this: Until all troops are gone and the blockade is lifted, they will continue firing rockets. It's my understanding that those two preconditions is what Hamas is aiming for right now.

Hamas has announced a week-long ceasefire:
http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5ijkYFQac8SjkWN53E259A5P2Cr2w

"We in the Palestinian resistance movements announce a ceasefire in the Gaza Strip and demand that enemy forces withdraw in a week and open all the border crossings to permit the entry of humanitarian aid and basic goods," Mussa Abu Marzuk, the deputy leader of Hamas's politburo, said in Damascus.

Dawud Shihab, a Gaza-based spokesman for Islamic Jihad, a smaller armed faction, said the truce would give an opportunity for Arab governments to put pressure on Israel to withdraw all its troops.

"During this period, the resistance is ready to respond to all efforts by the Egyptians, Turks, Syrians and Arabs that will allow for a total withdrawal of Israeli soldiers and the total opening of border crossings," he told AFP.

[...] Palestinian president Mahmud Abbas repeated his call for a complete withdrawal of all Israeli forces from Gaza and the re-opening of the enclave's border crossings, saying Israel's truce was "important and necessary but insufficient."

So what will people say if Israel does not commit to the terms of Hamas' ceasefire? Will Israel be in violation?

Regev says no:

Reacting to the announcement from Damascus, government spokesman Mark Regev stressed that Israel was not a partner to any agreement with Hamas, a group which is sworn to the Jewish state's destruction.

Ignoring, of course, Abbas' requests.

 

[FireGarden]

Parky76, ddt, FireGarden, darat, FFT, a unique person,
do you strongly condemn Hamas' actions since 2A.M.?
Hams keeps firing from civilian areas although Israel is not firing at them (at the Hamas). If Israel retaliates there could unfortunately be more civilian casualties along with the dead Hamas terrorists.

You've already tried a thread highlighting the breaking of an unagreed ceasefire. So why start another thread?

I disagree with Hamas firing rockets at any time. I think the firing of rockets at cities to be illegal. My posts here were never about dismissing the illegality of Hamas' actions. I understand why they fire them: it is their only way of pressuring Israel to lift the blockade. But I think they would have been better off breaking through the border with Egypt again.

Do you think that Israel's response was proportional? Or do you think that "the boss has gone mad"? http://zope.gush-shalom.org/home/en/channels/avnery/1232152100/

ETA: seems the thread have been merged.

 

[lupus_in_fabula]

Hamas has announced a week-long ceasefire:
http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp...53E259A5P2Cr2w

That's good news indeed.

So what will people say if Israel does not commit to the terms of Hamas' ceasefire? Will Israel be in violation?

I suspect some sort of cat-and-mouse game will start: Maybe Israel will deliberately stay over a week just in order to see if Hamas will follow up on their treat to continue firing rockets?

Continuing the blockade in it's current form is not a tenable Israeli policy anymore in my opinion (from an Israeli point of view): humanitarian and material needs are so large that it would probably start a new international protest storm if proper help to Gazans are withheld from them.

I think there's sufficient diplomatic pressure for increased international responsibility of the whole border import/export issue.

Ignoring, of course, Abbas' requests.

Nothing stops others (UN, US, Arab League etc.) from demanding the exact same things as Hamas. The rationale is still 'humanitarian' and 'rebuilding' rather than supporting demands of a group no one wants to deal directly with – that hasn't changed at all.

The political downside (in terms of Israeli policy-making prestige) is of course that those demands are the same as Hamas had during the truce last year. Did anyone happen to notice how Livni tried her best to avoid answering the question about this particular issue during her press conference in Washington? Someone must probably engage in some sort of a low-level dialog with Hamas anyway.

 

[yairhol]

Some opposed my other thread showing Hams violations of the cease-fire claiming it was a one-sided cease-fire by Israel.

So now we have a two sided cease-fire:
http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3658114,00.html

Palestinian groups announce immediate truce by their fighters, allied groups in Gaza, say Israel has a week to pull out its troops from area. Hamas source tells Ynet declaration aimed at allowing delegation to Cairo to receive clarifications

And then, a rocket is fired to Israel hitting near the town of Netivot.

There will be no thread started by Parky76, ddt, FireGarden, FFT and the likes regarding Hamas terroristic actions so I will start it.

Cease Fire violation #1.

 

[FireGarden]

Some opposed my other thread showing Hams violations of the cease-fire claiming it was a one-sided cease-fire by Israel.

So now we have a two sided cease-fire:
http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3658114,00.html

And then, a rocket is fired to Israel hitting near the town of Netivot.

There will be no thread started by Parky76, ddt, FireGarden, FFT and the likes regarding Hamas terroristic actions so I will start it.

Cease Fire violation #1.

first of all... as I've already told you, I'm not in favour of Hamas firing rockets.

second... I do not see it as my duty to catalogue every rocket fired by Hamas.

Third... Your own source says:

Earlier, despite belligerent declarations from Hamas leaders on Saturday and Sunday that rocket fire on Israeli towns would continue, a Hamas source told Ynet that Palestinian organizations have decided to end rocket fire against Israel gradually.

In a meeting of the various organizations, it was decided to "reduce the fire until its cessation – in upcoming days, possibly even in upcoming hours."

According to the source, "Rocket fire is intended to send the message that we are the ones who decide when there is a ceasefire, not some unilateral decision in Israel."

So they haven't actually given a time when the ceasefire begins. They say "upcoming days/hours"

Kind of like Israel announced a ceasefire that would begin at 2AM, not the moment it was announced.

 

[Darat]

yairhol please don't keep starting threads which are essentially all about exactly the same thing.

Replying to this modbox in thread will be off topic  Posted By: Darat

 

[Thunder]

Israel has every right to fire rockets at Israeli troops. But of course, they are not doing that.

 

[webfusion]

Israel HAMAS has every right to fire rockets at Israeli troops. But of course, they are not doing that.

Fixed it for you.

 

[yairhol]

Israel Hamas has every right to fire rockets at Israeli troops. But of course, they are not doing that.

During the cease-fire?
I don't think so.

and until now the Hamas has mostly fired on Israeli civilians.

 

[Oliver]

Some opposed my other thread showing Hams violations of the cease-fire claiming it was a one-sided cease-fire by Israel.

So now we have a two sided cease-fire:
http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3658114,00.html

And then, a rocket is fired to Israel hitting near the town of Netivot.

There will be no thread started by Parky76, ddt, FireGarden, FFT and the likes regarding Hamas terroristic actions so I will start it.

Cease Fire violation #1.

Is there actually any evidence that Hamas is firing all those rockets - or are we at least also talking about the Palestinian Islamic Jihad Group here?

 

[Oliver]

I have no problem to imagine that the PIJ gives a damn about cease-fires, or for that matter ... Hamas, just to stir up trouble:

"The group is also said to receive some funding from Hezbollah and also clashed repeatedly with Hamas following the latter's takeover of the Gaza strip in mid-2007." Source

 

[WildCat]

Is there actually any evidence that Hamas is firing all those rockets - or are we at least also talking about the Palestinian Islamic Jihad Group here?

It really doesn't matter. Hamas is the government of Gaza, they have a responsibility to stop other groups also. And Islamic Jihad is closely allied with Hamas.

Or would you be OK with Israel allowing radical Israelis to acquire weapons with which to randomly fire towards Gaza?

 

[Oliver]

It really doesn't matter. Hamas is the government of Gaza, they have a responsibility to stop other groups also. And Islamic Jihad is closely allied with Hamas.

Or would you be OK with Israel allowing radical Israelis to acquire weapons with which to randomly fire towards Gaza?

Well, if some Israeli Fundies would deliberately interrupt the cease-fire I couldn't blame Israels Government itself for those attacks. So if the PIJ is firing rockets without Hamas backing those attacks, I would blame the PIJ in the first place.

The question is: Who did interrupt the cease-fire? Hamas, the PIJ or even a third group of radicals?

 

[WildCat]

Well, if some Israeli Fundies would deliberately interrupt the cease-fire I couldn't blame Israels Government itself for those attacks.

Really? Even though Israel does nothing to stop them?

 

[Oliver]

Really? Even though Israel does nothing to stop them?

I'm sure Israel doesn't want bad publicity and would at least try to stop them if there is knowledge about an attack in advance.

The problem of threads like this is that Israel denied that foreign reporters enter Gaza. This way it's hard to get facts about what exactly is going on. The advantage for Israel's policy seems to be that this way, it's easy to blame Hamas for everything going on in Gaza. Unfortunately, the PIJ and Hamas aren't the same organisation, nor do they agree all the time.

Therefore it's quite possible that the OP's claim may be wrong.

 

[ddt]

Parky76, ddt, FireGarden, darat, FFT, a unique person,
do you strongly condemn Hamas' actions since 2A.M.?

You want an answer - how about first answering my questions?

The world forces a cease-fire between Israel and the Hamas. The Hamas are not in a position to say if they accept it or not.
They are de facto violating a cease-fire determined by the leaders of free world.

More distortions. Both Israel and Hamas rejected the UN call for ceasefire. Then Israel declared a ceasefire on its own terms.

Some opposed my other thread showing Hams violations of the cease-fire claiming it was a one-sided cease-fire by Israel.

So now we have a two sided cease-fire:
http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3658114,00.html

You really have a problem with reality, haven't you? There is no two-sided ceasefire, there are two one-sided ceasefires. Both Israel and Hamas have declared a ceasefire on their own terms.

And then, a rocket is fired to Israel hitting near the town of Netivot.

Evidence? The linked article doesn't say so.

There will be no thread started by Parky76, ddt, FireGarden, FFT and the likes regarding Hamas terroristic actions so I will start it.

To please you?

As to the question above: I'm willing to answer it as soon as you
(a) retract the lies you've been stating in this thread and apologize for them;
(b) have the title of this thread changed.

 

[yairhol]

And then, a rocket is fired to Israel hitting near the town of Netivot.

Evidence? The linked article doesn't say so.

easily. google is your friend. You just type www.google.com and at the blank field you type in keywords to whatever you are looking for. In this case you could type: "Hamas cease-fire rockets Israel".
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090118/ap_on_re_mi_ea/ml_israel_palestinians

Militant rockets peppered southern Israel ahead of the Palestinian truce offer, threatening to re-ignite three weeks of violence that killed more than 1,200 Palestinians — more than half of them civilians, Gaza officials said — and turned the streets of Hamas-ruled Gaza into battlegrounds.

http://www.debka.com/headline.php?hid=5860

Sunday, Jan. 18, Hamas leader Mussa Abu Marzuk in Damascus declared an immediate ceasefire on behalf of all the Palestinian organizations conditional on Israel's withdrawal from Gaza within a week. A few minutes later, two rockets exploded in two kibbutzim near the Gaza border

 

[Skeptic]

And this applies equally to the un resolutions Israel ignores, does it?

No, because the UN is a antisemitic dictators' debating club.