Anyone here ever encountered the Immunics cult?

[The Atheist]

Is there a thread on this site that discusses these things in an open minded way?

Welcome along.

Good effort coming along and joining.

Can I suggest you just go to the Science, Mathematics and Medicine Forum and hit the "New Thread", and use a title like "Alt-Med discussion".

You'll find that this forum has some amazingly experienced and talented people in all alt-med fields and if you post with the style you've started, I'd just about guarantee that you won't find dogmatic people coming back to you.

 

[fibanacci]

I saw my Immunics buddy tonight and we attempted to teach a new person what we do. It was a good experience, I was able to get to the "calm, clear place" quicker than usual. I don't really understand too much about what is going on with Immunics but I think it has to do with self-hypnosis. I have prior experience with EMDR and hypnosis with a therapist and Holographic Repatterning from a trained person. Holographic repatterning seems like total voodoo but profound changes happened.

I will take a look at the threads in the Medicine section. I started doing Neurofeedback recently and I'm curious to learn more about that. There is a lot of really interesting real science being done these days in neurology with all the new tools. I'm hoping we are on the verge of a real revolution in our understanding but I've been disappointed with with what I've read from Candace Pert and the Biology of Belief guy. Looking for good recommendations on what to read.

You can get a password to the full Immunics web site if you write to them and say you can't affort to pay. That's how I had access for almost 2 years.

I read the other threads that you refered me to. One thing that strikes me is that Bayard is described as a sucessfull cult leader. From the tidbits that I have gathered from listening to his talks I get the impression that when he first "discovered" Immunics, he tried to sell it just the same as his previous courses but was not able to do it. He also talks about what a jerk he was in the past and how this staff had to stage interventions, etc. There is a sense of him having given up his previous ways with maybe hints of a religious conversion or re-awakening. He talks about being a devotee of Meher Baba, having gone to India around 1967.

I don't think he credits Immunics with curing his Manic Depression, he does talk about self treatment with OTC lithium that almost killed him. My father is bipolar which I think plays a big role in my reactions to Bayard. I have a tendency to be attracted to the charismatic aspect of manic depressives but at the same time I put up a shield against them. My dad is very intelligent and I have learned to filter out the crazy stuff while retaining the useful info, although this process is imperfect. I catch myself believing things that are probably not true.

I read an interesting book a few years ago that talked about cult leaders. Dont remember the name. It talked about Krishnamurti and some others. The main thing I remember is that the cult leader is always the supreme leader and expert, there is no democracy. I'm not sure Immunics qualifies as a cult in this regard. While Bayard is the leader, the elders are quite involved with expanding and writing the teachings and they are given credit for at least some of what they do. It seems like more of a group project. The recorded teaching phone calls are usually lead by the elders with Bayard listening and butting in. I had the impression that Bayard was treated like some kind of idiot-savant by them, but that could be just my own projection.

 

[laarree]

You can get a password to the full Immunics web site if you write to them and say you can't affort to pay. That's how I had access for almost 2 years.

I'm glad you gave them no money.

I read the other threads that you refered me to. One thing that strikes me is that Bayard is described as a sucessfull cult leader. From the tidbits that I have gathered from listening to his talks I get the impression that when he first "discovered" Immunics, he tried to sell it just the same as his previous courses but was not able to do it. He also talks about what a jerk he was in the past and how this staff had to stage interventions, etc. There is a sense of him having given up his previous ways with maybe hints of a religious conversion or re-awakening. He talks about being a devotee of Meher Baba, having gone to India around 1967.

Bayard always talked about his master Meher Baba even when I was involved. One striking difference between his monologues back in the '70s and early '80s and what I've seen thru the Immunics website is his talking about God--when I was involved in his cult, the purported agenda of his teachings was to awaken people to their "unlimitedness" and to having the experience that they are manifesting everything and all experiences, e.g. that they ARE God--he would often dramatically yell "You are the only one here!" during courses, but now he talks about God as something higher that downloads messages to him. That could point to a shift in his belief system somewhere between the time of my involvement and the "discovery" of immunics.

I don't think he credits Immunics with curing his Manic Depression, he does talk about self treatment with OTC lithium that almost killed him. My father is bipolar which I think plays a big role in my reactions to Bayard. I have a tendency to be attracted to the charismatic aspect of manic depressives but at the same time I put up a shield against them. My dad is very intelligent and I have learned to filter out the crazy stuff while retaining the useful info, although this process is imperfect. I catch myself believing things that are probably not true.

OTC Lithium?? WTF is that? Lithium is a prescription drug. I can't imagine B submitting to going to a psychiatrist, getting a proper diagnosis and getting a prescription. If he self-medicated thru a less formal source of drugs, that alone could be dangerous. He does make extravagant claims as to what Immunics alone can cure, so him dabbling in psychiatric meds isn't a strong endorsement of his own teaching.

FWIW, my mother very possibly was bipolar. I too had to filter out the crazy stuff to keep sane when I was a kid, which could account for my long-standing appreciation for reason and my Mr. Spock-ish demeanor.

I read an interesting book a few years ago that talked about cult leaders. Dont remember the name. It talked about Krishnamurti and some others. The main thing I remember is that the cult leader is always the supreme leader and expert, there is no democracy. I'm not sure Immunics qualifies as a cult in this regard. While Bayard is the leader, the elders are quite involved with expanding and writing the teachings and they are given credit for at least some of what they do. It seems like more of a group project. The recorded teaching phone calls are usually lead by the elders with Bayard listening and butting in. I had the impression that Bayard was treated like some kind of idiot-savant by them, but that could be just my own projection.

The "elders" of WHUM, who have been by B's side for over 25 years (Fran over 30 years) have all had long histories of submitting to him and duplicating his speech patterns, behaviors, mannerisms, etc. If there is any school of guru-ship B could be lumped into, it's the "crazy wisdom" school, where the bizarre behaviors of the guru are rationalized by followers as being teaching devices that could shock them awake or enlighten them. If the "elders" appear to function as peers instead of followers of B, I would speculate it's because they are beyond the point of doing something he would consider unpredictable or threatening and function as a comfortable echo chamber in which he can have his brand of madness affirmed and unchallenged. What goes on between them and what is shown to the public (such as yourself and others consuming their teachings via the website) can be shockingly different.

Gotta get back to work, you have a good day.

 

[fibanacci]

OTC Lithium?? WTF is that? Lithium is a prescription drug. I can't imagine B submitting to going to a psychiatrist, getting a proper diagnosis and getting a prescription. If he self-medicated thru a less formal source of drugs, that alone could be dangerous. He does make extravagant claims as to what Immunics alone can cure, so him dabbling in psychiatric meds isn't a strong endorsement of his own teaching.

He said that in the early 1970's, decades before Immunics, he bought a lithium compound from a chemical supply place that supplied people who did ceramics. Nearly killed himself, not a good idea.

Interesting to hear that he is the type of bipolar person who would not submit to the care of a psychiatrist, my dad is the same, too paranoid and too smart for his own good.

 

[laarree]

In the early 1970s, AFAIK Bayard attended Primal therapy workshops and groups in New York City, and then started his own practice as a primal therapist, without any professional training or state licenses. Incidentally, B was a perfect example of what Arthur Janov, author of "The Primal Scream" and other volumes on Primal Therapy, would label a "mock primal therapist"--someone who claims to do primal therapy but was not trained or licensed by Janov's institute (this is the equivalent of an astrologer denigrating the dubious qualifications of a trance channeler). If B tried a non-medical lithium compound during this time period to self-medicate, that is the height of lunacy. The "creation myth" he would relate to us early students about how he "discovered" Direct Centering was that he attended a biofeedback workshop, after which he found himself laughing uncontrollably for five hours. At the end of this extended fit of laughter, he had no mind (in the eastern religious sense), and claimed that he could do things like control the weather, and had everything go his way. If he is really bipolar, that sheds some light on the origin of what eventually became Immunics--it all started with an extreme manic episode.

 

[fibanacci]

He refers to his former profession as having been a shrink. For a while I was confused and thought he was an MD. I think I emailed him and asked about that and he said no, he was an unlicenced primal therapist.

That's interesting about the biofeedback workshop. I'm guessing in those days it was alpha wave feedback.

My grandfather was a minister and my dad rebelled against that after taking geology in the church run college that he attended. Raised me as an atheist/agnostic with good training in logic and reason. But when he got psychotic, he would get religious again, see Jesus on the roof of the 7-11, etc, that is, when he wasnt hiding from the CIA. That made a big impression on me and I realized as an adult that I regarded people who believed in god as stupid or crazy. Since then I've met a lot of very nice spiritual people and I have to work really hard to try to understand WTF they are talking about.

 

[laarree]

I can't imagine how difficult it must have been to have a father going thru that kind of stuff--that sounds very frightening. The worst my mother ever got was viciously angry and bitter, not paranoid and hallucinating. Still, living with her as a kid was enough to drive me during my college days to explore primal therapy and the New Age in general, which led me into the clutches of B.

 

[dudalb]

One thing about medical woo groups like this: Nature tends to solve the problem for us....

 

[John Smith]

awesome work on this thread laaree,
well done

 

[laarree]

awesome work on this thread laaree,
well done

Thanks, John, whoever you are. I try my best to rise above my inherent nitwit-ery.

 

[Skeptical Humanist]

Direct Centering/Naexus

I was a member of Direct Centering. I'd like to talk to you about it. I'm curious to find others who left the cult.

 

[sadhatter]

You mean Dr. Graham Farrant, don't you? I was involved in Primal therapy here in New York City in the mid- to late-'70s, which was my "gateway drug" to getting involved with Direct Centering. Getting back into primal (again, with an unlicensed therapist) actually helped me put my cult behind me, but ultimately led to my disenchantment with primal. I went to a conference sponsored by the International Primal Association c. Summer 1984 with the agenda of talking to therapists there about my cult experience and Graham Farrant was the keynote speaker. The fact that he was a psychiatrist and spoke so articulately about cellular consciousness and conception trauma and whatnot was very impressive to the people and therapists attending--by the time he was finished, everyone was warmed up for his endorsement of Sathya Sai Baba as his master. Many credulous primal people sat around his feet as he went on about his godman guru, and I believe he attracted many of them to become Sai Baba followers--I guess Rajneesh was no longer vaible as a choice for western neo-Hindus . I was appalled, as I was witnessing people who I thought were more sane, "real" and "feeling" than I was getting suckered into believing tall tales about an alleged avatar and magician. Needless to say, I never went back to any other primal conferences and eventually gave up on primal.

Good post, this is a topic i always wanted to know more about.

As a random point, your avatar is disturbing the **** out of me, lol. Not because of what it is, but because i was watching something the other day that described that, and today, i just happen to see it in your avatar.

 

[laarree]

I was a member of Direct Centering. I'd like to talk to you about it. I'm curious to find others who left the cult.

Hi, I responded to your private message, FYI.

 

[laarree]

Good post, this is a topic i always wanted to know more about.

As a random point, your avatar is disturbing the **** out of me, lol. Not because of what it is, but because i was watching something the other day that described that, and today, i just happen to see it in your avatar.

Yeah, my fish head photo is kind of gross, isn't it? Delicious, but gross.