Anyone here ever encountered the Immunics cult?

[laarree]

Otherwise known as WHUM, Immuners, CureDrive, they are a not-so-benign cult of folks (they call themselves a church), http://www.immunics.org/index.html they claim to teach people a technique that enables you to cure yourself of virtually any illness. This technique is, as you might imagine, ultra-woo-ish in nature, and is called "harmonic accessing" http://www.immunics.org/00open/definitions/accessing.htm and http://www.immunics.org/00open/definitions/rik.htm

Their founding father is currently located in Florida (videos of him are on their homepage and on Youtube), and has been around the New Age scene for well over 30 years attracting and losing followers. Originally an unlicensed primal therapist in New York City who one day proclaimed that he had achieved a state of "no mind" (e.g. "enlightenment"), his band of followers over the years have mutated in form and name from Direct Centering to Naexus to its current incarnation. Somehow his current group under its current name has stayed under the radar of nearly all skeptical organizations and web-entities. There is almost a complete absence of critical commentary on this group to be found anywhere on the web except for a link that can be found in an old JREF forum posting and a listing at crank.net that I am responsible for. A recent search on google for "Direct Centering" reveals a few critical references, and also reveals the astonishing fact that a certain someone named Adam Savage apparently did the Direct Centering course. http://ask.metafilter.com/16566/Fou...ject-family-abuser-and-tax-avoider-all-in-one

I was one of his youthful followers during the late '70s to early '80s when his group and teaching was called Direct Centering. My falling away from this group was perhaps the most insane and terrifying period of my life, but luckily I got some help, learned about cults and critical thinking from some very kind and smart counselors I met, found out about CSICOP from one of them and many years later am happily skeptical and atheistic and largely free of obvious derangement. However, I still get pissed thinking about how my old cult leader continues to sell dubious knowledge to the naive.

I'm extremely curious about whether anyone here in the JREF forums has knowledge about them or has had encounters with them.

 

[Gravy]

Never heard of them. Psychic Chiropractic adjustments and medical diagnoses by phone. Good grief!
Glad you got yourself free!

 

[laarree]

Never heard of them. Psychic Chiropractic adjustments and medical diagnoses by phone. Good grief!
Glad you got yourself free!

They didn't jump into the medical woo until well after I left. It probably had something to do with the leader "curing" himself of herpes and wanting to pass his "knowledge" on to others. He had many many affairs with students and followers in the days before HIV came along, so it stands to reason he would have caught somethng nasty.

 

[Moochie]

Otherwise known as WHUM, Immuners, CureDrive, they are a not-so-benign cult of folks (they call themselves a church), http://www.immunics.org/index.html they claim to teach people a technique that enables you to cure yourself of virtually any illness. This technique is, as you might imagine, ultra-woo-ish in nature, and is called "harmonic accessing" http://www.immunics.org/00open/definitions/accessing.htm and http://www.immunics.org/00open/definitions/rik.htm

Their founding father is currently located in Florida (videos of him are on their homepage and on Youtube), and has been around the New Age scene for well over 30 years attracting and losing followers. Originally an unlicensed primal therapist in New York City who one day proclaimed that he had achieved a state of "no mind" (e.g. "enlightenment"), his band of followers over the years have mutated in form and name from Direct Centering to Naexus to its current incarnation. Somehow his current group under its current name has stayed under the radar of nearly all skeptical organizations and web-entities. There is almost a complete absence of critical commentary on this group to be found anywhere on the web except for a link that can be found in an old JREF forum posting and a listing at crank.net that I am responsible for. A recent search on google for "Direct Centering" reveals a few critical references, and also reveals the astonishing fact that a certain someone named Adam Savage apparently did the Direct Centering course. http://ask.metafilter.com/16566/Fou...ject-family-abuser-and-tax-avoider-all-in-one

I was one of his youthful followers during the late '70s to early '80s when his group and teaching was called Direct Centering. My falling away from this group was perhaps the most insane and terrifying period of my life, but luckily I got some help, learned about cults and critical thinking from some very kind and smart counselors I met, found out about CSICOP from one of them and many years later am happily skeptical and atheistic and largely free of obvious derangement. However, I still get pissed thinking about how my old cult leader continues to sell dubious knowledge to the naive.

I'm extremely curious about whether anyone here in the JREF forums has knowledge about them or has had encounters with them.

I've written before about my experience of Primal in the late 70s, here in Australia, when it was practiced by a psychiatrist who'd gone to the States, met Arthur Janov and a host of others, and came back to start what was then possibly the first and only PT clinic on these shores.

To a young guy who felt weird and depressed and a whole bunch of other things, Primal Therapy seemed "the answer."

It wasn't.

I participated in it for a couple of years or so, but when the psychiatrist started on about "cells having memories," causing his closest allies to splinter off to follow their own delusions (past lives, interstellar origins, etc.) I somehow had the nous to figure out that these people were seriously, well, something.

There will always be people searching for some answer to whatever ails them, and there will always be those who will take advantage of that.

Fact is, there are no magical cures, particularly not for so-called mental problems, so if you see what appears to be "the answer," apply Occam's Razor, quickly! You're human, and so are the morons claiming to offer cures. They're either scamsters, seriously deluded, or both. Realizing this generally suggests that you only lack the confidence to appreciate just how "together" you actually are, compared to such freaks.

M.

 

[Fnord]

Seems like a bunch of Scientology wannabes.

Pitiful...

 

[laarree]

I've written before about my experience of Primal in the late 70s, here in Australia, when it was practiced by a psychiatrist who'd gone to the States, met Arthur Janov and a host of others, and came back to start what was then possibly the first and only PT clinic on these shores.

To a young guy who felt weird and depressed and a whole bunch of other things, Primal Therapy seemed "the answer."

It wasn't.

I participated in it for a couple of years or so, but when the psychiatrist started on about "cells having memories," causing his closest allies to splinter off to follow their own delusions (past lives, interstellar origins, etc.) I somehow had the nous to figure out that these people were seriously, well, something.

There will always be people searching for some answer to whatever ails them, and there will always be those who will take advantage of that.

Fact is, there are no magical cures, particularly not for so-called mental problems, so if you see what appears to be "the answer," apply Occam's Razor, quickly! You're human, and so are the morons claiming to offer cures. They're either scamsters, seriously deluded, or both. Realizing this generally suggests that you only lack the confidence to appreciate just how "together" you actually are, compared to such freaks.

M.

You mean Dr. Graham Farrant, don't you? I was involved in Primal therapy here in New York City in the mid- to late-'70s, which was my "gateway drug" to getting involved with Direct Centering. Getting back into primal (again, with an unlicensed therapist) actually helped me put my cult behind me, but ultimately led to my disenchantment with primal. I went to a conference sponsored by the International Primal Association c. Summer 1984 with the agenda of talking to therapists there about my cult experience and Graham Farrant was the keynote speaker. The fact that he was a psychiatrist and spoke so articulately about cellular consciousness and conception trauma and whatnot was very impressive to the people and therapists attending--by the time he was finished, everyone was warmed up for his endorsement of Sathya Sai Baba as his master. Many credulous primal people sat around his feet as he went on about his godman guru, and I believe he attracted many of them to become Sai Baba followers--I guess Rajneesh was no longer vaible as a choice for western neo-Hindus . I was appalled, as I was witnessing people who I thought were more sane, "real" and "feeling" than I was getting suckered into believing tall tales about an alleged avatar and magician. Needless to say, I never went back to any other primal conferences and eventually gave up on primal.

 

[Gord_in_Toronto]

I've always considered Primal Therapy a real scream!

 

[laarree]

Seems like a bunch of Scientology wannabes.

Pitiful...

Back during the late '70s, the cult leader purchased and studied many L. Ron Hubbard Scientology volumes, and would run Scientology processes (sans e-meter) on us poor unknowing early followers. One process he especially liked was called "exteriorization" which allegedly could induce out-of-the-body experiences. He would advertise via flyers in health food stores free evenings in NYC's East Village with the headline "Learn to Leave Your Body". I was subjected to this many times and was disappointed that I never had an OOBE -- I, of course, blamed myself for this inability. A year or two before (1977), he was advertising on his flyers "Learn the Ways of the Force"--guess what that was a reference to.

I hope I am making my woo-filled background clear.

 

[RSLancastr]

There is almost a complete absence of critical commentary on this group to be found anywhere on the web

This sounds like a void you are very qualified to fill, laarree.

 

[laarree]

This sounds like a void you are very qualified to fill, laarree.

I guess so. I know very little about their current activities, which is why I thought I'd post an inquiry here. AFAIK they could be pretty harmless these days, although any group that makes the promises that they make deserves the scrutiny of smarter, more experienced skeptics than I. The potential for them to deceive and exploit people with serious health problems is great.

I have a substantial collection of documents related to the early years of this cult which I recently scanned in and turned into PDF files. I shredded the paper versions to free up some storage space in my New York City-sized apartment and now just have the digitized versions, duplicated offsite just in case there is ever a use for them in the future.

 

[krelnik]

...one day proclaimed that he had achieved a state of "no mind"...

That part I believe, but I'm thinking I'm defining words a little differently than he is.

I agree with RSL, you are in a great position to create a site to expose this nonsense. Go for it!

 

[Moochie]

You mean Dr. Graham Farrant, don't you? I was involved in Primal therapy here in New York City in the mid- to late-'70s, which was my "gateway drug" to getting involved with Direct Centering. Getting back into primal (again, with an unlicensed therapist) actually helped me put my cult behind me, but ultimately led to my disenchantment with primal. I went to a conference sponsored by the International Primal Association c. Summer 1984 with the agenda of talking to therapists there about my cult experience and Graham Farrant was the keynote speaker. The fact that he was a psychiatrist and spoke so articulately about cellular consciousness and conception trauma and whatnot was very impressive to the people and therapists attending--by the time he was finished, everyone was warmed up for his endorsement of Sathya Sai Baba as his master. Many credulous primal people sat around his feet as he went on about his godman guru, and I believe he attracted many of them to become Sai Baba followers--I guess Rajneesh was no longer vaible as a choice for western neo-Hindus . I was appalled, as I was witnessing people who I thought were more sane, "real" and "feeling" than I was getting suckered into believing tall tales about an alleged avatar and magician. Needless to say, I never went back to any other primal conferences and eventually gave up on primal.

I think many of us "products of the 60s" went guru-shopping in the 70s and later. Some of us became ersatz gurus, while many of us became their devotees. A good proportion of us eventually got smart, and so here we are.

M.

 

[laarree]

That part I believe, but I'm thinking I'm defining words a little differently than he is.

I agree with RSL, you are in a great position to create a site to expose this nonsense. Go for it!

The problems with a project like that are many-- if I knew that they were currently harming people, that might motivate me, but I've found nothing on the web about this, nor have I been contacted thru the grapevine about such incidents from my old counter-cult connections. Also, I don't have the resources or the time to deal with the consequences of creating an exposé site, e.g. lawsuits, emails or phone calls from the cult, retaliatory actions on their part. 20 years ago I was sufficiently angry about my experiences with them to take action against them, but now I'm more like a concerned historian than an activist.

 

[kedo1981]

Getting to nail all the hot chicks is the best reason to start a cult

 

[laarree]

Getting to nail all the hot chicks is the best reason to start a cult

My old cult leader had his way with countless cuties. One of them is an "Elder" in the group--she was known for having said years ago that sleeping with him was like a "sexual healing". Oh, and his wife (or ex-wife but still primary relationship) is also one of the "Elders".

One of the more positive aspects of my old cult was that most people were getting laid alot, including myself.

At least I didn't have the awful taste to have fallen in with Marshall Applewhite.

 

[Moochie]

At least I didn't have the awful taste to have fallen in with Marshall Applewhite.

If you had, you probably wouldn't have had the balls to get out.

M.

 

[MaryCBW]

Moochie:
"I think many of us "products of the 60s" went guru-shopping in the 70s and later. Some of us became ersatz gurus, while many of us became their devotees. A good proportion of us eventually got smart, and so here we are."

Yikes! I guess there are some advantages to being a teen/young adult in the middle of nowhere in the South. I'm still trying to get some of the mainstream United Methodist crap out of my system.

 

[laarree]

Moochie:
"I think many of us "products of the 60s" went guru-shopping in the 70s and later. Some of us became ersatz gurus, while many of us became their devotees. A good proportion of us eventually got smart, and so here we are."

Yikes! I guess there are some advantages to being a teen/young adult in the middle of nowhere in the South. I'm still trying to get some of the mainstream United Methodist crap out of my system.

Can I recommend a nice New Age workshop to help you get free of that?

 

[fibanacci]

Immunics web site

I've been semi-involved with this group for a couple of years. I was in a Buddhist cult when I was in my 20's so I recognized that aspect of this group and avoided activity like that., i.e. declined to sell bumper stickers or spread the word. I found this board when I googled Immunics a few days ago because their web site was down, so I joined up so I could respond.

The Immunics web site includes a lot of videos, audios and transcripts of Bayard's lectures. He quite freely admits to a lot of his past indescretions and also admits that he is bipolar, although I was not aware of the long history of running a cult. I was under the impression that he had run a for profit business consulting firm. They are currently a non-profit org but not an official church as far as I know.

There is a lot of stuff about the Harmonic coming from God, and all kinds of esoteric stuff on the web site. I was raised as an atheist in the Unitarian Church so I don't have much regard for all that stuff. I consider Immunics to be a version of muscle testing, self-hypnosis, etc. and I have stayed involved because it seems to have some effect. Early on I found a person in my city with whom I get together and we "practice" Immunics together and do lessons on the web site. I think the mutual support of practicing together is the main reason that I have stuck with it. Like meditation, there is a benefit from practicing with other people which amplifies the effect. The other place that I have experienced this effect is in Quaker silent meetings, the only organized religion that I can handle.

Some of the Immunics web site lessons have been powerful and relevant experiences but a lot of others have been weird, puzzling or annoying.

I tried communicating with the elders for a while but found their responses to my questions to be dogmatic or unintelligable by me so I gave up on that.

I am a person of scientific bent who was forced by health issues that were not fixed by western medicine to seek help in other places. It is difficult to discuss these things intelligently because there is so much deception by opportunistic people and misinformation from the gullible sincere ones also. Much of the medical/pharmaceutical/research industrial complex does not function in good faith either. I think it is a healthy thing that alternative therapies like acupuncture are being studied, but that is probably off topic for this page. Is there a thread on this site that discusses these things in an open minded way? My husband used to subscribe to SCICOP and I found them to be closed minded science fundamentalists on some issues.

I get the impression that the Immunics web site is not reeling in very many new fishes these days. There has been very little activity on the email lists, other than the periodic posts sent automatically

 

[laarree]

Hi fibanacci

I've been semi-involved with this group for a couple of years. I was in a Buddhist cult when I was in my 20's so I recognized that aspect of this group and avoided activity like that., i.e. declined to sell bumper stickers or spread the word. I found this board when I googled Immunics a few days ago because their web site was down, so I joined up so I could respond.

The Immunics web site includes a lot of videos, audios and transcripts of Bayard's lectures. He quite freely admits to a lot of his past indescretions and also admits that he is bipolar, although I was not aware of the long history of running a cult. I was under the impression that he had run a for profit business consulting firm. They are currently a non-profit org but not an official church as far as I know.

There is a lot of stuff about the Harmonic coming from God, and all kinds of esoteric stuff on the web site. I was raised as an atheist in the Unitarian Church so I don't have much regard for all that stuff. I consider Immunics to be a version of muscle testing, self-hypnosis, etc. and I have stayed involved because it seems to have some effect. Early on I found a person in my city with whom I get together and we "practice" Immunics together and do lessons on the web site. I think the mutual support of practicing together is the main reason that I have stuck with it. Like meditation, there is a benefit from practicing with other people which amplifies the effect. The other place that I have experienced this effect is in Quaker silent meetings, the only organized religion that I can handle.

Some of the Immunics web site lessons have been powerful and relevant experiences but a lot of others have been weird, puzzling or annoying.

I tried communicating with the elders for a while but found their responses to my questions to be dogmatic or unintelligable by me so I gave up on that.

I am a person of scientific bent who was forced by health issues that were not fixed by western medicine to seek help in other places. It is difficult to discuss these things intelligently because there is so much deception by opportunistic people and misinformation from the gullible sincere ones also. Much of the medical/pharmaceutical/research industrial complex does not function in good faith either. I think it is a healthy thing that alternative therapies like acupuncture are being studied, but that is probably off topic for this page. Is there a thread on this site that discusses these things in an open minded way? My husband used to subscribe to SCICOP and I found them to be closed minded science fundamentalists on some issues.

I get the impression that the Immunics web site is not reeling in very many new fishes these days. There has been very little activity on the email lists, other than the periodic posts sent automatically

Hello and welcome, fibanacci! I was very surprised to see a new post on this dormant thread, especially from someone who actually has participated in the recent Immunics phase of Bayard's 30+ year-old cult. It's interesting to hear that he has admitted to past indiscretions and says he is bipolar -- I assume the videos, transcripts, etc. where he says such things are password-protected and not accessible to non-paying non-members. I wonder if he believes he has cured himself of bipolar disorder using immunics. That would be as absurd as saying that the ocean has cured itself of its saltiness using salt.

I personally have no use for alternative "medicine" and lost whatever respect for it that I had years ago. I highly suggest getting a copy of the book "Trick or Treatment" by Simon Singh and Edzard Ernst and reading it -- it does a brilliant job of explaining evidence-based medicine, its history, the history of popular branches alternative medicine, the value of stuff like double-blinded clinical trials, meta-analyses of clinical trials, the placebo effect, etc. It comes to the unsurprising and disappointing conclusion that nearly all alternative treatments have no benefit for their recipients beyond a placebo effect, which is what I suspect immunics-style finger testing and other practices evoke. I suspect that you'll find few fans of alternative medicine in these forums -- poke around other threads here and you'll see what I mean.

If you want to read a couple of other discussions of Bayard's cult on the web, take a look at http://forum.rickross.com/read.php?4,56207 , http://forum.rickross.com/read.php?12,3001,55547#msg-55547 , or http://ask.metafilter.com/16566/Fou...ject-family-abuser-and-tax-avoider-all-in-one . You'll see my username and digressions in the two Rick Ross Cult Education Forum threads, along with posts from several other ex-Bayard-ites.

I can't imagine how the Immunics website could capture many fish -- it's badly designed and unprofessional-looking, and Bayard comes across strangely, sitting in profile and gazing off to the side in his videos. Contrast it with the website and videos (on Youtube: http://www.youtube.com/user/BornFreeNow ) of this particular Irish crackpot "avatar", who seems to have had a larger design budget or perhaps some more technically sophisticated followers: http://www.sq-wellness.com/