Vision From Feeling

[Professor Yaffle]

They were pictures on the internet. I should have been more clear on that.

Do you get hese perceptions with every electron microscope picture you see on the internet? If not, roughly on what proportion would you see it? Or is it like photographs of people on the internet that you feel happy to state you have got health information from in the past, but when presented with such here on the forum, your ability to do this vanished?

ETA: I don't get how your perceptions are "by definition" not hallucinations. What definition of hallucination are you using? Here's one from medicine.net:

Hallucination: A profound distortion in a person's perception of reality, typically accompanied by a powerful sense of reality. An hallucination may be a sensory experience in which a person can see, hear, smell, taste, or feel something that is not there.

We haven't yet determined whether your perceptions are accurate. If they are not accurate, they could be hallucinations.

 

[desertgal]

desertgal:
And once again you are incorrect, nathan just posted the definition of hallucinations and based on how my perceptions come about, they are not hallucinations.

Nope, not incorrect. See a psychiatrist.

And by definition they are not hallucinations.

Wrong again.

It is only now that I've begun investigating the medical perceptions, but in a rational way. And there is nothing wrong in doing that.

Unless, of course, the perceptions are actually hallucinations, which they are.

Ashles:
The perceptions are by definition not hallucinations.

Wrong again.

desertgal:
I was being ironic toward Locknar. I do not pose to be a psychic.

Yes. You do.

 

[Professor Yaffle]

Professor Yaffle:
I did the synesthesia test on www.synesthete.org. I would like to trust you with my password and username to access my results and see for yourself. The system that calculates the discrepancy between repeated trials of the same number or sound is very picky. For instance I perceive the number 0 in the very same gray each time, and try to depict it in the exact way in the program, yet it announces a discrepancy in the colors. As for the chord and instruments, problem is I see two colors not one. Please see my results and you may present your conclusions here.

Did the site give you a summary that you could post here - or at least say how likely it is that you have synesthesia based on your test? I am no expert, so I am not sure what giving me your password etc would achieve.

 

[VisionFromFeeling]

I think everyone here has pretty much expressed all of their concerns by now, and repeatedly, and I have answered and replied to them, repeatedly. I think we can safely assume that we are past that point of introduction and interrogation and I will no longer respond to the same criticism and false accusations that are being brought up time and time again, unless something brand new emerges which I will then address.

I think we will all be happier once I simply disregard these repeated comments from you guys. I want no criticism from anyone regarding that I begin to ignore questions and comments. I will continue to read each of them carefully, as always, I will consider what they are saying, but from now on I only respond to ones that are conductive in our investigation.

If it interests any of you, the IIG West with whom I am arranging to have a test, post monthly updates with brief descriptions of their progress with their challenge applicants, and you can read about my case in among others their recent December update, at http://www.iigwest.com/whatsnew/updates/200812_update.html It does not entail all the details, but it shows that we are still "in progress".

Today I am sending e-mails to specific members of the local skeptics group asking for their participation in a study to be held this week or next. By today I will also post new information about the study on my website.

*commencing ignoring mode* - questions and comments from skeptics will be disregarded. I feel terrible about it but it is the only way we can proceed in a manner that is more conductive, more pleasant for all of us involved, to avoid wall of texts without much useful content, to save time, and to focus on what the goals actually are and to reach those goals with more clarity and happiness.

 

[desertgal]

I think everyone here has pretty much expressed all of their concerns by now, and repeatedly, and I have answered and replied to them, repeatedly. I think we can safely assume that we are past that point of introduction and interrogation and I will no longer respond to the same criticism and false accusations that are being brought up time and time again, unless something brand new emerges which I will then address.

I think we are past the point where this thread serves any purpose other than furthering your delusions and gratifying your need for attention.

The whole thing is ridiculous. You are delusional, Anita. You have no special abilities that defy science. Your university should be made aware of your inability to differentiate between reality and fantasy, and you need psychiatric help. Period.

That said, I'm done. At least, with this thread.

 

[skeen]

VFF, you do realize that "ignore mode" is what every single psychic claimant does? Look into The Professor, he's just one of many of you people who repeatedly ignore rational comments.

And, are you not also a skeptic? Anita, in what way are you Scientific? It blows my mind.

EDIT: @desertgal, me too. I'm done with this. Silly nonsense. I'll not contribute to Anita living her childish fantasy anymore.

 

[stanfr]

There is no reason in the world that if you can do what you say you can do, you wouldn't be on every talk show around the world by the week's end.

Yes!! Exactly!!! So, why continue this pointless 'discussion'? Take Anita up on her latest claim (that she will ignore further posts) and allow here to either 'put up or shut up'. I mean, i fully admit that i was suckered by the 'bad car wreck effect' to initially peruse this thread, but enough is enough already! If everyone here would simply stop the massive amount of moot questions, insults, pointless analysis, it will give Anita at least a small amount of free time to get on that Talk Shiow. Unless she's a complete idiot (and i don't think she is) then she oughta know by now what she has to do to get people to take her seriously.

 

[VisionFromFeeling]

skeen:
*ignoring mode* - not saying everything I would have otherwise said.

You keep using the word "perceive" as if it saves you from criticism. Hallucinations, and deceptions are perceptions. They are false perceptions, don't you get that?

Experience has shown that they are accurate perceptions. The question still remains, are these perceptions really going to remain as accurate when they are put to the test? And, if they do remain accurate, are they obtained from normal sources such as cold reading, or from something else? A test will tell us. At this point I suppose all of us are merely speculating. I am speculating based on experiences/accounts, and you might be speculating based on my text and your expectations.

If your objective were to truly investigate your alleged abilities, you would have had a mountain of evidence by now.

Your impatience does not imply a failure on my part in obtaining evidence.

You hide behind a thin cloak of concern preventing you from merely doing very simple, very quick tests.

My concerns about risks involved for volunteers who particpate in the study, are real concerns. If I did not have these concerns I'd definitely be criticized for that too. Everything I do is wrong to you guys whether I do it or not.

 

[Locknar]

Professor Yaffle:
I did the synesthesia test on www.synesthete.org. I would like to trust you with my password and username to access my results and see for yourself. The system that calculates the discrepancy between repeated trials of the same number or sound is very picky. For instance I perceive the number 0 in the very same gray each time, and try to depict it in the exact way in the program, yet it announces a discrepancy in the colors. As for the chord and instruments, problem is I see two colors not one. Please see my results and you may present your conclusions here.

Well...a Internet test is surly accurate and proof....umm, I'm going to go with no.

You've not been medically diagnosed, by your own admission, and thus can not conclusively state "I have synesthesia". It is a claim, not fact.

skeen:
I am not lying. I have been describing my experiences as they took place. By definition I do not have hallucinations. Why can't we all just focus on the objective which is to investigate the claim?

While perhaps not lying, you have described your experiences as you remember them (after the fact), providing no supporting detail.

I am not sure "we" are involved in investigating your claim. To recap (and grossly paraphrase) a portion of the discussion to date:

"Us" - You should do X, Y and Z to validate your claim
"You" - Excuses, campfire stories, etc.

You claim to be seeking help, and then disregard (or otherwise make up excuses why it can't be applied to you) any and all such advice given.

Each time one of my perceptions has appeared to be accurate, I do not conclude that it is evidence in favor of ESP, since cold reading could have been available. What it does provide is yet another example where the claim was not falsified, that's all.

How do any of your campfire stories provide an example where the claim was not falsified?

I don't guess. I was just saying that a person could have the chance of 5:6 to guess wrong on vasectomy. I never implied that I guess.

You did not imply it, you flatly stated "I guess".

I've experienced cases where I can not see what the cold reading would have been.

This does not make it so, nor can you sumarilly rule out that anyone/everyone is simply "playing along."

I will NOT involve my school. Period.

Yes, you have made this clear while overlooking the fact that: 1) your website is publically available, 2) your name can be tied back to your school - thus you have already involved them.

There've been cases where I can not imagine what the cold reading would have been. And I am not avoiding tests.

Every example you have discussed can be explained by cold reading and other non-"woo woo" means.

As to not avoiding tests...I think you are about the only one that feels that way especially in light this has been going on since 2007. Surly in all this time, you could have accomplished some corroborated and properly documented testing...especaily on a "power" you claim to have had since birth.

ETA

<snip> I want no criticism from anyone regarding that I begin to ignore questions and comments.

*commencing ignoring mode* - questions and comments from skeptics will be disregarded. I feel terrible about it but it is the only way we can proceed in a manner that is more conductive, more pleasant for all of us involved, to avoid wall of texts without much useful content, to save time, and to focus on what the goals actually are and to reach those goals with more clarity and happiness.

Umm....no criticism; isn't that what you have YOUR website for? Oh wait...that's right, this (and other forums) reach far more people then your website, so it makes sense to post here in terms of advertising/notoriety.

Simply stated, ignoring questions and comments 1) Won't make them go away, 2) Will not increase your credibility, 3) Is what most others that have claimed "woo woo" powers have done....

Where is George when you need him!

 

[Sideroxylon]

skeen:
Experience has shown that they are accurate perceptions. The question still remains, are these perceptions really going to remain as accurate when they are put to the test? And, if they do remain accurate, are they obtained from normal sources such as cold reading, or from something else? A test will tell us. At this point I suppose all of us are merely speculating. I am speculating based on experiences/accounts, and you might be speculating based on my text and your expectations.

Your own experience shows nothing. We cannot trust our perceptions and we are capable of self deception, which can happen to even the brightest of people – Google ”René Prosper Blondlot”

 

[Uncayimmy]

And once again you are incorrect, nathan just posted the definition of hallucinations and based on how my perceptions come about, they are not hallucinations.

Once again, I declare myself the arbiter of precise language. I am qualified because I applied for and received a poetic license.

What Anita has described for her medical perceptions is not consistent with hallucinations in that she has never claimed to see these images in "objective external space." What she describes is her imagination. Her belief that she is actually reconstructing accurate images could be called delusional or simply wishful thinking.

However, some of what Anita has described outside of this thread can be described as hallucinations. In several of her ghost stories she makes it clear that what she sees is superimposed on to the real world and not of this world, so to speak. That sounds like imagination, but it might be argued as being hallucinatory.

She does say, however, that she can hear ghosts and even carry on conversations with them. That sounds like a hallucination to me. Or just a fanciful imagination and story telling on her part.

And we all know she obviously feels compelled to share these stories and anecdotes.

 

[VisionFromFeeling]

Professor Yaffle:

Excuse me if you have already stated this, but what toxic effects do you percieve from this molecule in the jade plant?

*ignored* - not relevant to claim. Sorry.

Do you get hese perceptions with every electron microscope picture you see on the internet? If not, roughly on what proportion would you see it? Or is it like photographs of people on the internet that you feel happy to state you have got health information from in the past, but when presented with such here on the forum, your ability to do this vanished?

*ignored*

ETA: I don't get how your perceptions are "by definition" not hallucinations. What definition of hallucination are you using?

Anita, you keep claiming you're not hallucinating, because you have perceptions. That's a necessary but insufficient condition. Hallucinations are perceptions in the absence of stimuli. You need to prove the emboldened bit is false, to rule out hallucinations.

My medical perceptions are triggered by stimulus and commence once I've seen a person.

According to the other definition you brought,

Hallucination: A profound distortion in a person's perception of reality, typically accompanied by a powerful sense of reality. An hallucination may be a sensory experience in which a person can see, hear, smell, taste, and feel something that is not there.

I would say that the perceptions are not part of my sense of reality, they are impressions that's all. However they are sensory experience that I can see, hear, smell, taste, or feel, yet the question remains to find out whether they are in fact there or not. And if they are not there and are entirely subjective to me, they might be something innocent like synesthesia. We need more data in order to be more effective in these speculations as to what the perceptions are.

Did the site give you a summary that you could post here - or at least say how likely it is that you have synesthesia based on your test? I am no expert, so I am not sure what giving me your password etc would achieve.

Yes but why don't you access it and do as you please with it. I'm not interested.

desertgal:

Unless, of course, the perceptions are actually hallucinations, which they are.

According to two sources of definitions of hallucination, the perceptions are not hallucinations. Do not conclude too soon. I have personal experience that indicates the possibility of otherwise.

I think we are past the point where this thread serves any purpose other than furthering your delusions and gratifying your need for attention.

This thread will continue to be the site where I post recent updates on my investigation. The fact that it takes so long before any news is not entirely my fault. I will not stand up on a soapbox and ask people to volunteer for a test, although, that is somewhat what I will do in the upcoming study. I'm not here for delusions, I'm here for clarity into my experiences with the perceptions. And I'm not here for personal attention, I'm here because of the perceptions and I try to discuss them in an impersonal way.

Your university should be made aware of your inability to differentiate between reality and fantasy

I have a very clear distinction between what are my own experiences and what are mutually experienced by everyone. I realize fully well that everyone doesn't see organs and tissue when they look at people. These perceptions are impressions and I do not experience them with the same sense of reality or belief as I do what I see with my eyes for instance. It is only now with this investigation that I look into the perceptions. My unusual or unconventional perceptions do not distract or disturb how I function in life. I am a very good science student and a very promising future scientist and none of these interests, experiences, or perceptions will reduce the high quality of how I perform in my studies or career.

skeen:

VFF, you do realize that "ignore mode" is what every single psychic claimant does? Look into The Professor, he's just one of many of you people who repeatedly ignore rational comments.

!!! But when I do respond to every single comment I get criticized for the wall of texts! So now when I choose to ignore some of the comments that have been answered by me many times before, I get criticized! I knew it! Everything I do is wrong whether I do it or not! So let's just focus on doing this investigation. All this talk is not productive to the investigation, and the fact that I realize to stop commenting on everything that is said to me on this thread should indicate a step in the right direction. I do not ignore rational comments. I just don't want to answer the same things over and over again and waste everyone's time and thread-space. It's a good decision on my part and I don't see how it should reduce from how I come across. If anyone agrees with me, please say so, because if y'all want me to continue commenting on everything then let me know and I'll do it.

 

[VisionFromFeeling]

Locknar:
The claim I am investigating is medical perceptions from live people. When it is insisted that I test the other aspects of the perceptions, that occur much less frequently, that are not of the type that I would push to have tested in the first place, and when tests conclude (with the Lactobacillus test) that a test means I have to force myself and get a serious headache and nausea, and other reasons, I have every reason to avoid these tests and to focus on my main claim.

I take in all advice relating to my claim and have received a perfect study procedure from UncaYimmy and am now ready to have the study, which will then either falsify the claim or allow us (yes, us, me and the skeptics, Locknar) to proceed to a test and with a stronger and more specific claim.

How do any of your campfire stories provide an example where the claim was not falsified?

By presenting accurate health information that correlates with actual health information. Not to say that this accurate health information was necessarily obtained by ESP, but as long as it is accurate and I've experienced cases where I do not know what cold reading would have been responsible or even available, I conclude to proceed toward a real test that will find out.

You did not imply it, you flatly stated "I guess".

You misinterpreted. I was speaking from a general sense, that a person can have a 5:6 chance of guessing wrong. I do not guess. If you think that is what it said, then allow for this correction: I do not guess, I base my information on what I am under the impression of perceiving. And this is not an example for you of where I would have been wrong and had to change my statement afterwards. You misinterpreted, that's all.

This does not make it so, nor can you sumarilly rule out that anyone/everyone is simply "playing along."

I've had cases of accuracy that can not be accountable by people playing along. That is my claim. I will next have the study to provide with some documented examples. And if the study fails to falsify the claim, ie. by not revealing a significant extent of inaccuracy, then a test will reveal whether this accuracy arises from cold reading or other normal sources, or from some other paranormal source.

As to not avoiding tests...I think you are about the only one that feels that way especially in light this has been going on since 2007. Surly in all this time, you could have accomplished some corroborated and properly documented testing...especaily on a "power" you claim to have had since birth.

The IIG, bless their hearts, take months to get back to me each time. And that correspondence accounts for over a year of this one and a half year time during which I've been involved in this investigation.

Umm....no criticism; isn't that what you have YOUR website for?

I said I would appreciate to receive no criticism against my decision to disregard some of the posts here that have been answered before, that are just misconceptions and false assumptions, insults and personal criticism, and are totally irrelevant to the progress of this investigation, since I believe that by doing so we will all be more productive with this claim.

Simply stated, ignoring questions and comments 1) Won't make them go away, 2) Will not increase your credibility, 3) Is what most others that have claimed "woo woo" powers have done....

1) Answering them doesn't make them go away either, 2) Answering them doesn't increase my credibility either, 3) I can't answer the same questions many times and respond to every case of inaccurate assumption, personal attack and insults. I am choosing to focus on the claim and the investigation.

Sideroxylon:

Your own experience shows nothing. We cannot trust our perceptions and we are capable of self deception, which can happen to even the brightest of people

But I know that! All I've concluded based on my experiences is to proceed toward a real test!

 

[VisionFromFeeling]

UncaYimmy:

Her belief that she is actually reconstructing accurate images could be called delusional or simply wishful thinking.

No. My claim that the perceptions have shown accuracy is based on past experiences. I think the question is a) what will the accuracy be in a test, will it remain as good or will inaccuracy be revealed, and b) if accurate, is the source of the information normal, or paranormal.

 

[Professor Yaffle]

If anyone cares, I looked at Anita's synesthesia test results, and in only one section did her score fall within what would be expected for a synesthete, the others put her in the range of the normal population.

 

[Uncayimmy]

What about the moderated thread? Should I ask the moderators to close it or will you continue to participate?

 

[Sideroxylon]

But I know that! All I've concluded based on my experiences is to proceed toward a real test!

I guess I must have been reading too much into statements you have been making like the one I replied to: "Experience has shown that they are accurate perceptions."

 

[VisionFromFeeling]

I realize that I too have been posting irrelevant topics in this thread, and I should know better than to post them in a skeptics Forum and not expect skeptics to do to it what they do.

If you all excuse me, I have a study to set up. I have skeptics to contact, people to call, papers to print, random numbers to generate, envelopes to buy, and arrangements to make.

 

[Ashles]

My medical perceptions are triggered by stimulus and commence once I've seen a person.

Oh dear, back to this in complete contradiction of the previous pretense to be open minded as to whether the sensations were as a result of stimuli or not.

Unless Anita is just making up her own definition of stimuli. Which appears entirely possible.
Anita, it is, for reference - "events in the environment" or "a detectable change in the internal or external environment" (in this instance internal refers to real changes inside your own body).

I wonder if Anita is now going to argue what stimulus is in a scientific sense.
That really would be ironic after my little story above.

 

[Ashles]

If you all excuse me, I have a study to set up. I have skeptics to contact, people to call, papers to print, random numbers to generate, envelopes to buy, and arrangements to make.

And we'll believe it when we hear that it has happened.