Hafrada is worse than Apartheid

[The Fool]

you kids finished with the diversions and hand waving yet?

I condemn discrimination on the grounds of race color or religion wherever it happens. So do you......well, nearly.....

 

[WildCat]

what sort of citizenship? Equal?

Nope. They were assigned 2nd class citizenship. Something you would find disgusting in your own country but ok in Israel.

Oh really?

Legal and Political Status:

Arab Israelis are citizens of the Israel with equal rights. In 1948, Israel's Declaration of Independence called upon the Arab inhabitants of Israel to "participate in the upbuilding of the State on the basis of full and equal citizenship and due representation in all its provisional and permanent institutions".

The political involvement of the Arab sector is manifested through both national and municipal elections. Arab citizens run the political and administrative affairs of their own municipalities and advance Arab interests through their elected representatives in the Knesset, Israel's parliament. Arab Israelis have also held various government positions, including that of deputy minister. At present a member of the Druze community is serving as a government minister.

The Declaration also promises that Israel will "ensure complete equality of social and political rights to all its inhabitants irrespective of religion, race or sex" and guarantees "freedom of religion, conscience, language, education and culture".

Israel has extensive anti-discrimination laws. Moreover, since the founding of the State, the status of Arab Israeli women has been significantly improved by legislation stipulating equal rights for women and prohibition of polygamy and child marriage. Israel remains one of the few countries in the Middle East where women enjoy equality in rights and personal freedoms, including the right to vote and be elected to local and national office.

The only legal distinction between Arab and Jewish citizens is not one of rights, but rather of civic duty. Since Israel's establishment, Arab citizens have been exempted from compulsory service in the Israel Defense Forces (IDF). This exemption was made out of consideration for their family, religious and cultural affiliations with the Palestinians and the rest of the Arab world, given the on-going conflict. Still, volunteer military service is encouraged and IDF service was made mandatory for Druze and Circassian men at the request of their community leaders.

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Society_&_Culture/arabs2.html

Just like in apartheid S. Africa!

The Fool, I guess when the facts don't support you lies is all you have left...

 

[BirdStrike]

I condemn discrimination on the grounds of race color or religion wherever it happens. So do you......well, nearly.....

There isn't a country on earth that doesn't suffer from discrimination issues. The worst offenders are Arab countries, see Darfur, Shiite vs Sunni in Iraq, women in Saudia Arabia, Palestinians in Lebanon.... Israel is not special by any means.

 

[The Fool]

Oh really?

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Society_&_Culture/arabs2.html

Just like in apartheid S. Africa!

The Fool, I guess when the facts don't support you lies is all you have left...

Oh dear....you are going to try to deny it again? will you disappear again too? after you have the fact that non jews do not have full and equal citizenship of Israel.
Can I have your commitment to hang around before I bother to demonstrate it again?


but let me just confirm this.......Jews and non jews both have full and equal citizenship in the Jewish nation. The laws of the land and the rights and responsibilities of thier citizenship are the same? I just want to confirm that because its so blatantly obviously incorrect that I wonder how a seemingly intelligent person could try to breath life into it.

ready? would you like to start a new thread so your usual vanishing act is more obvious?


step one. If they are full and equal there would be no need to record which they have....agreed?

 

[The Fool]

There isn't a country on earth that doesn't suffer from discrimination issues. The worst offenders are Arab countries, see Darfur, Shiite vs Sunni in Iraq, women in Saudia Arabia, Palestinians in Lebanon.... Israel is not special by any means.

Nobody is saying Israel is the only one that does it or that it is the worst.....but you should hang around. Wildcat hasn't recieved the news that its no point denying it anymore and its better to handwave and divert. He's still going to try to deny it...

 

[WildCat]

Oh dear....you are going to try to deny it again? will you disappear again too? after you have the fact that non jews do not have full and equal citizenship of Israel.
Can I have your commitment to hang around before I bother to demonstrate it again?


but let me just confirm this.......Jews and non jews both have full and equal citizenship in the Jewish nation. The laws of the land and the rights and responsibilities of thier citizenship are the same? I just want to confirm that because its so blatantly obviously incorrect that I wonder how a seemingly intelligent person could try to breath life into it.

ready? would you like to start a new thread so your usual vanishing act is more obvious?


step one. If they are full and equal there would be no need to record which they have....agreed?

A typical evidence-free post from The Fool!

Feel free to point out the laws in Israel that discriminate against Arab-Israelis... ready, set, go!

 

[quarky]

I wish Utah could be Israel. That would be more fun.

Its hard to see this problem resolving nicely. Maybe in time, with more inter-marriages with kids that don't define themselves rigidly, and, in fact, can't be defined by the old standards.

Atheist Jews that live on Long Island are still Jews, because they choose to identify as such. Albino Negroes in S. Africa were still black.

Humans seem to have a need for a despised race, or tribe, or religion. It elevates them. Even the victims would gladly become the perpetrators.

By the time we're all homonginized, we'll likely have other criteria besides race, religion, etc.

 

[Thunder]

A typical evidence-free post from The Fool!

Feel free to point out the laws in Israel that discriminate against Arab-Israelis... ready, set, go!

It is legal for a Israeli school to not allow in Arab students.

Arab students recieve about 50% the amount of education funds as Jewish students.

Israel has yet to build one...single...new Arab town or city. They have built hundreds of Jewish towns.

It is legal to not sell land to someone because they are an Arab or a Muslim.

It is illegal for an Israeli political party to call Israel anything but..."The Jewish State". Yet, it is legal for a political party to call for the forced expulsion of Arabs and Muslims.

The government of Israel only recognizes marriage between Jews.

Only Jews...or those with 1/4th Jewish blood..can come to Israel under the Law of Return. There are tons of financial benefits that are ONLY eligible to folks who came under the Law of Return.

Israel, my friend, is filled with de-facto and de-sure examples of racism and discrimination.

Open your eyes.

I am a Jew. I love Israel. But the state must be fixed or it will kill itself.

 

[The Fool]

A typical evidence-free post from The Fool!

Feel free to point out the laws in Israel that discriminate against Arab-Israelis... ready, set, go!

Nationality and Entry into Israel Law (Temporary Order) 5763-2003


I was going to provide them one by one so I can see the one that was current when you disappeared but it looks like Parky has spilled the beans on a whole list.



are you sure you want to go on....you are going to look rather silly trying not to see the elephant in the room. Denial is soooooo last week, its diversion thats all the go now, get with the program.

 

[WildCat]

It is legal for a Israeli school to not allow in Arab students.

Are these public schools?

Arab students recieve about 50% the amount of education funds as Jewish students.

Evidence?

Israel has yet to build one...single...new Arab town or city. They have built hundreds of Jewish towns.

Were these towns built for new immigrants, all of which are Jewish?

It is legal to not sell land to someone because they are an Arab or a Muslim.

Evidence? Or is this just about the JNF, a matter which is currently in the courts?

It is illegal for an Israeli political party to call Israel anything but..."The Jewish State".

So? Isn't it?

Yet, it is legal for a political party to call for the forced expulsion of Arabs and Muslims.

And political parties in the US are free to call for the forced expulsion of blacks, Mexicans, Irish, etc... your point?

The government of Israel only recognizes marriage between Jews.

Actually, it only recognizes Orthodox Jewish marriages, which means they also discriminate against most of the Jewish population of Israel.

Only Jews...or those with 1/4th Jewish blood..can come to Israel under the Law of Return. There are tons of financial benefits that are ONLY eligible to folks who came under the Law of Return.

That's why it's called the "Jewish State". Can't say I hold this against them, seeing as how welcomed they are in the rest of the world.

Israel, my friend, is filled with de-facto and de-sure examples of racism and discrimination.

Of which you've provided almost no evidence.

Open your eyes.

I am a Jew. I love Israel. But the state must be fixed or it will kill itself.

How would you "fix" it?

 

[Thunder]

Are these public schools?


Evidence?
Were these towns built for new immigrants, all of which are Jewish?
Evidence? Or is this just about the JNF, a matter which is currently in the courts?
So? Isn't it?
And political parties in the US are free to call for the forced expulsion of blacks, Mexicans, Irish, etc... your point?
Actually, it only recognizes Orthodox Jewish marriages, which means they also discriminate against most of the Jewish population of Israel.
That's why it's called the "Jewish State". Can't say I hold this against them, seeing as how welcomed they are in the rest of the world.
Of which you've provided almost no evidence.
How would you "fix" it?

So, you deny when you can.

And when you can't deny, you make excuses.

And when you can't make excuses, you accept and justify.

Nice man. Really nice. Im sure they had lots of excuses and justifications for Apartheid and Segregation too.

Racism is racism. And its all bad.

And considering the pain and suffering we have gone through for 2,000 years...the fact that you as a Jew would make excuses and justifications for racism...is a horrible tragedy.

 

[WildCat]

So, you deny when you can.

And when you can't deny, you make excuses.

And when you can't make excuses, you accept and justify.

Nice man. Really nice. Im sure they had lots of excuses and justifications for Apartheid and Segregation too.

Racism is racism. And its all bad.

And considering the pain and suffering we have gone through for 2,000 years...the fact that you as a Jew would make excuses and justifications for racism...is a horrible tragedy.

I see you have yet to supply evidences for your claims.

And I really do know what you'd do to "fix" Israel if you were suddenly declared Emperor of Israel.

 

[Thunder]

I
And I really do know what you'd do to "fix" Israel if you were suddenly declared Emperor of Israel.

And what exactly do you mean by that? Spell it out.

http://www.acri.org.il/eng/

http://zope.gush-shalom.org/index_en.html

http://www.meretzusa.org/

read up boyo

There is nothing more Jewish then standing up for the rights of your fellow man.

 

[WildCat]

And what exactly do you mean by that? Spell it out.

http://www.acri.org.il/eng/

http://zope.gush-shalom.org/index_en.html

http://www.meretzusa.org/

read up boyo

There is nothing more Jewish then standing up for the rights of your fellow man.

Can you be more specific and link directly to the Israeli policies that are "worse than apartheid"?

eta: oh, and how would parky76 fix Israel?

 

[Texas]

1) Name another state in the world that has occupied another territory for over 40 years and not allowed its residents the right of citizenship?

.

Well let's see, Kuwait has been a "nation" for about 60 years, Saudi Arabia became an established nation in 1933 or so, Iraq since about 1940, Libya since 1951, all with the exception of Saudi Arabia having borders drawn for them by either Great Britain, France or Italy. In every state mentioned immigration is nil or severely restricted to Muslim populations and none of them grant citizenship to the many thousands of Palestinian workers they import for domestic work. If we are to apply the Apartheid standard, as posited in the OP, to Israel then the entire Middle East plus the entire African continent, and the Indian Sub-Continent must be included.

 

[a_unique_person]

Well let's see, Kuwait has been a "nation" for about 60 years, Saudi Arabia became an established nation in 1933 or so, Iraq since about 1940, Libya since 1951, all with the exception of Saudi Arabia having borders drawn for them by either Great Britain, France or Italy. In every state mentioned immigration is nil or severely restricted to Muslim populations and none of them grant citizenship to the many thousands of Palestinian workers they import for domestic work. If we are to apply the Apartheid standard, as posited in the OP, to Israel then the entire Middle East plus the entire African continent, and the Indian Sub-Continent must be included.

The Palestinians in the West Bank and Gaza are living in their own country.

 

[Texas]

The Palestinians in the West Bank and Gaza are living in their own country.

Absolutly so why is it "Apartheid" when Israel does not grant the citizenship as the OP has asserted When the entire Middle East and Africa tightly control their borders and tightly control their immigration policies?

There is no blockade of the West Bank so why, in your opinion, has there been one in Gaza? There are no air raids in the West bank so why, in your opinion, are they being conducted in Gaza? There are no rockets being launched from the Fatah controlled West Bank into Israel so why, in your opinion have 3000 rockets been launched from Gaza at Israel in 2008 alone?

 

[WildCat]

Absolutly so why is it "Apartheid" when Israel does not grant the citizenship as the OP has asserted

Jew Derangement Syndrome.

 

[Tin Foil Timothy]

FWIW I think people should be allowed to settle wherever they like as long as it's done legally and morally

Unless the laws are made by Israelis, right?

I disagree. I don't think Israel should be exempt at all. Why shouldn't people settle in Israel as long as they are not forcing someone else of the plot of land in the process.

Unfortunately Israel discriminates on immigration based upon race. I don't like that at all.

 

[Tin Foil Timothy]

Absolutly so why is it "Apartheid" when Israel does not grant the citizenship as the OP has asserted When the entire Middle East and Africa tightly control their borders and tightly control their immigration policies?

There is no blockade of the West Bank so why, in your opinion, has there been one in Gaza? There are no air raids in the West bank so why, in your opinion, are they being conducted in Gaza? There are no rockets being launched from the Fatah controlled West Bank into Israel so why, in your opinion have 3000 rockets been launched from Gaza at Israel in 2008 alone?

The west bank is full of 30 foot concrete walls, checkpoints, Israeli only roads, and various other apartheid measures. These walls and checkpoints are nowhere near the Israeli borders.