What will be the result of the Israeli attacks on Gaza?

[Thunder]

What will be accomplished from the Israeli strikes on Gaza?

 

[Tin Foil Timothy]

More innocent civilians killed and more idiots shouting Anti-Semite!

A big step backward on all fronts!

Well done Israel!

 

[Miss_Kitt]

Parky -- I think you left out a couple of options in the poll, like:

Hamas doesn't have control of the people launching the rockets; or

Another Arab state / organization will launch attacks on or within Israel; or

On Planet X, We sent our equivalent of the Israelis and the Palenstinians to an airless moon en masse, and turned the land into a Museum of Stupidity.

Regards, MK

 

[FireGarden]

A very short-sighted poll

I regard the current violence as another nail in the coffin of the two-state solution. It will soon be too late to resurrect that idea.

The region is on the path to a one-state solution.

 

[Pardalis]

More innocent civilians killed and more idiots shouting Anti-Semite!

A big step backward on all fronts!

Well done Israel!

What about Hamas breaking the cease-fire to begin with?

Oh right, we have to be tolerant towards them, breaking cease-fire is part of their "nature". It's a cultural thing. Racist me...

 

[ddt]

What will be accomplished from the Israeli strikes on Gaza?

In terms of breaking Hamas' strength? Not much. The first day, yesterday, had some 250 Gazans killed. Let's be generous and say they're all Hamas militants.

Now look at this analysis in Haaretz:

Approximately 15,000 armed Palestinians. That's the size of the military force the Israel Defense Forces will face if a major operation in the Gaza Strip goes forward. These militants, from various Hamas factions, will presumably be aided by a few thousand militants from other Palestinian groups.

Do the math. That's 60 days, or 2 month, with the same amount of success. Provided, of course, that all those casualties are indeed militants. They're not, it'll be more like the roughly 50% success rate Israel had in previous actions, so multiply by 2.

Moreover, Israel hasn't hit the core of Hamas' military strength, the al-Qassam brigades, but the police-like forces. Let's hear Amira Hass:

Training camps of the Izz-al Din al-Qassam and interrogation and detention centers were deserted when they were bombed. But police centers in the Strip, which give services to people, were teeming. No one believed that they would be bombed.

So, no, it won't significantly weaken Hamas, I think. In the end, it's another round of senseless bloodletting that makes peace a rather more distant than a closer prospect.

 

[Thunder]

What about Hamas breaking the cease-fire to begin with?

Oh right, we have to be tolerant towards them, breaking cease-fire is part of their "nature". It's a cultural thing. Racist me...

Israel was supposed to allow all neccessary food, water, and supplies into Gaza. They failed to do this. So in their own way, they also broke the cease-fire.

Denying food, water, and supplies is a passive act of violence.

 

[Tin Foil Timothy]

Israel was supposed to allow all neccessary food, water, and supplies into Gaza. They failed to do this. So in their own way, they also broke the cease-fire.

Denying food, water, and supplies is a passive act of violence.

Israel broke the ceasefire back in November 4th by shooting 6 Palestinians militants and rocekts were fired at Israel in response

 

[TriskettheKid]

Israel broke the ceasefire back in November 4th by shooting 6 Palestinians militants and rocekts were fired at Israel in response

Well, if you want to play that game, Hamas broke the ceasefire a mere 5 days after it went into effect.

They fired off a few Qassams on June 24. Quite a bit of restraint from Hamas, considering they had agreed to a ceasefire that began on June 19.

 

[Darth Rotor]

Moreover, Israel hasn't hit the core of Hamas' military strength, the al-Qassam brigades, but the police-like forces. Let's hear Amira Hass:

This isn't a video game. Pure attrition isn't the only way for an army to disintegrate. Sometimes, morale breaks and they quit. (Not seeing it for Hamas, however.)

So, no, it won't significantly weaken Hamas, I think. In the end, it's another round of senseless bloodletting that makes peace a rather more distant than a closer prospect.

Senseless or not, I agree with the bolded part: more grist for the Hamas recruiting mill.

DR

 

[BenBurch]

...
Denying food, water, and supplies is a passive act of violence.

Generally called a "siege."

 

[dudalb]

A very short-sighted poll

I regard the current violence as another nail in the coffin of the two-state solution. It will soon be too late to resurrect that idea.

The region is on the path to a one-state solution.

And what will happen to the Jews in Israel when HAMAS takes over?
IMHO advocates of a "Single State Solution" are really advocating a "Ethnic Cleansing" if Jews from Palestine, although they won't admit that or carefully delude themselves that that will not be the final result.

 

[Tandem Thinking]

I'm not sure what everyone else here was expecting when Hamas launched rockets into Israel. If Canada or Mexico launched rockets into the U.S., I'm positive we would've done more than launch air strikes.

 

[Drewbot]

Israel is going to go in on the ground soon, this time they are not going to tell us when and where.

 

[portlandatheist]

What about Hamas breaking the cease-fire to begin with?

Don't you read the news? When Palestinians bombard Israel with rockets, they are "threatening the cease-fire" but the cease fire is not actually broken until Israel launches rockets.

Lots of examples:
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/middle_east/article4224397.ece
"Gaza Rockets threaten ceasefire.."

Same rules hold for peace treaties and negotiations.

 

[Tin Foil Timothy]

Well, if you want to play that game, Hamas broke the ceasefire a mere 5 days after it went into effect.

They fired off a few Qassams on June 24. Quite a bit of restraint from Hamas, considering they had agreed to a ceasefire that began on June 19.

Well if you want to play that game then the Zionist Movement spent 50 years planning and implementing the creation of Israel on a land where other people lived and without regard for those people. Since it's creation Israel has spent 60 years persecuting those people in order to drive them off the land they once owned and had their livelihoods.

 

[TriskettheKid]

Well if you want to play that game then the Zionist Movement spent 50 years planning and implementing the creation of Israel on a land where other people lived and without regard for those people. Since it's creation Israel has spent 60 years persecuting those people in order to drive them off the land they once owned and had their livelihoods.

That is an interesting interpretation of history.

It's also an interesting dodge to the point on hand:

The ceasefire started on June 19, Hamas broke it on June 24. I can assume, based on your dodge, that you accept this?

 

[Darth Rotor]

Don't you read the news? When Palestinians bombard Israel with rockets, they are "threatening the cease-fire" but the cease fire is not actually broken until Israel launches rockets.

Lots of examples:
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/middle_east/article4224397.ece
"Gaza Rockets threaten ceasefire.."

Same rules hold for peace treaties and negotiations.

It seems that Hamas and Gaza are in deed at war with Israel, if I wish to play dictionary definition lotto today.

A ceasefire (or truce) is a temporary stoppage of any armed conflict, where each side of the conflict agrees with the other to suspend aggressive actions. Ceasefires may be declared as part of a formal treaty, but they have also been called as part of an informal understanding between opposing forces.

One can argue that there had to be a war before they could agree a ceasefire. One could.

This raises an interesting point regarding how this conflict is covered. As I understand it, a ceasefire ceases when firing begins. PA, thanks again for pointing this out. Careless use of language is part of a misinformation campaign, whomever uses it.

You'd think even a journalist knows this mechanism about cease and fire. Then again, maybe a cease fire isn't broken until both sides fire? Is that the idea?

That would mean that North Korea could start shelling Seoul, and the cease fire would still be in effect until the US and South Korea fired back.

Yeah, that's it. It also means the US can shell North Korea without breaking the cease fire.

Hell, let's roll!

(Kidding)

 

[ddt]

Don't you read the news? When Palestinians bombard Israel with rockets, they are "threatening the cease-fire" but the cease fire is not actually broken until Israel launches rockets.

Lots of examples:
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/middle_east/article4224397.ece
"Gaza Rockets threaten ceasefire.."

Same rules hold for peace treaties and negotiations.

Did you actually read the article?

Today's rocket-attacks have been claimed by the al-Asqa Martyrs Brigades, a military splinter group of Fatah.

The ceasefire was between Hamas and Israel.

 

[Deus Ex Machina]

In terms of breaking Hamas' strength? Not much. The first day, yesterday, had some 250 Gazans killed. Let's be generous and say they're all Hamas militants.

Now look at this analysis in Haaretz:


Do the math. That's 60 days, or 2 month, with the same amount of success. Provided, of course, that all those casualties are indeed militants. They're not, it'll be more like the roughly 50% success rate Israel had in previous actions, so multiply by 2.

Moreover, Israel hasn't hit the core of Hamas' military strength, the al-Qassam brigades, but the police-like forces. Let's hear Amira Hass:


So, no, it won't significantly weaken Hamas, I think. In the end, it's another round of senseless bloodletting that makes peace a rather more distant than a closer prospect.

A good post all in all I think.

But I disagree with your last sentiment. I do not think it moves peace closer or further away. I do not think the current set up can lead to peace.

Hamas is an organization founded on the aim of the destruction of the state of Israel. AS someone in Isreael once said "Our enemies want us to die. We wish to live. there is not much room for compromise"

How the hell can there be peace between a two countries when one of them has the stated aim of destroying the other?

At some point an Arab leader has to arise who has something constructive to offer the Palestinians, something other than the endless round of privation, destruction death and popverty.

When THAT person arrives then, possibly, there is hope for peace.