Michael Connell died in a plane crash last night...

[skepticalcriticalguy]

Indeed, the US government has a very good trackrecord of keeping sekrit things under wraps

Are you implying that since some secret things have not been kept under wraps, then ALL secret things have not been kept under wraps? What a convenient and comfortable blanket to hide under.

I'm guessing they do actually get away with a few secret things.

 

[skepticalcriticalguy]

No thanks. I'll continue to be suspicious of someone who has proven in the past to be without scruples.

When someone of high profile dies in suspicious circumstances it's routine to look first at his enemies and those who would benefit from his death.

Unless it happens in America, Red. Then we go with whatever our favorite anchorperson tells us happened. (If they bother to report it at all).

Although I do remember good ol' Geraldo Rivera, on air, calling for Charlie Crist to have Florida authorities investigate the DC Madame suicide. I don't think he did though.

 

[Bell]

Are you implying that since some secret things have not been kept under wraps, then ALL secret things have not been kept under wraps? What a convenient and comfortable blanket to hide under.

I'm guessing they do actually get away with a few secret things.

It was a sarcastic remark in response to INRM's post:

I agree with Heretik Hulk,

I think our government knew he could deliver incriminating evidence against them and thus bumped him off.

A lot of people delivered incriminating evidence against the government, but did not got bumped off.

Just some cases that incriminated the government: Watergate, Iraqi WMD's, Guantanamo tortures...
Monica Lewinsky...

 

[skepticalcriticalguy]

It was a sarcastic remark in response to INRM's post:



A lot of people delivered incriminating evidence against the government, but did not got bumped off.

Just some cases that incriminated the government: Watergate, Iraqi WMD's, Guantanamo tortures...
Monica Lewinsky...

Sometimes, they get bumped off, sometimes they don't?

 

[RedIbis]

False dichotomy fallacy. Only two extreme options are presented with no apparent consideration for possibilities between or outside the two.

Not exactly. Either he did have something to do with it, or it was an accident plane and simple. In which case, Rove is quite lucky.

 

[Bell]

Sometimes, they get bumped off, sometimes they don't?

Yes. The government uses a die to determine who get's bumped off or not. They want it to appear random.

 

[Roadtoad]

Okay, I might have to bail on this one. As I continue to read, I'm getting a sense I need to start wearing a tinfoil beanie.

 

[BenBurch]

You know, I almost died in a light plane myself once, entirely due to pilot error, so I just don't find it all that remarkable that somebody who does a fair amount of flying in small planes might eventually come to grief.

 

[Roadtoad]

You know, I almost died in a light plane myself once, entirely due to pilot error, so I just don't find it all that remarkable that somebody who does a fair amount of flying in small planes might eventually come to grief.

One of the most famous stories I've heard in my own industry is the one about the guy who drove for Stevens Transport. Over 20 million miles, nearly 30 years, not one accident. Stevens was going to give him an award for safety. He was on his way to the awards ceremony.

He didn't make it.

He was involved in an accident. Broke his leg. That was the most serious problem in the whole thing, but, yeah. He missed out on receiving his award at the ceremony.

Things happen. So I have a hard time believing this was part of a conspiracy.

Someone pass the Reynolds Wrap.

 

[skepticalcriticalguy]

One of the most famous stories I've heard in my own industry is the one about the guy who drove for Stevens Transport. Over 20 million miles, nearly 30 years, not one accident. Stevens was going to give him an award for safety. He was on his way to the awards ceremony.

He didn't make it.

He was involved in an accident. Broke his leg. That was the most serious problem in the whole thing, but, yeah. He missed out on receiving his award at the ceremony.

Things happen. So I have a hard time believing this was part of a conspiracy.

See, that guy was on his way to get a safety award. Not to testify under oath about serious crimes by high-ranking government officials. Kind of apples and oranges.

 

[stilicho]

Not exactly. Either he did have something to do with it, or it was an accident plane and simple. In which case, Rove is quite lucky.

Wrong.

Larisa Alexandrovna has not yet clarified how or why Michael Connell was her source in any way, shape, or form. Every one of the conspiracy blogger links refer back to her and to "Velvet Revolution". Those people all have a stake in pushing the "Connell was about to spill the beans" story without providing any evidence of what this story was. They are all closely connected with the Ohio attorney presumed to speak for disenfranchised voters.

The facts as we know them (since Larisa A isn't talking much) is that Connell was subpoenaed and was in no way provably a source, a friend, sympathetic, or in any other way connected to Larisa and her internet pals.

As usual with conspiracy theorists, Larisa Alexandrovna made a false claim and has been conspicuous in avoiding talking about it.

 

[Bell]

See, that guy was on his way to get a safety award. Not to testify under oath about serious crimes by high-ranking government officials. Kind of apples and oranges.

Golly...

 

[Roadtoad]

See, that guy was on his way to get a safety award. Not to testify under oath about serious crimes by high-ranking government officials. Kind of apples and oranges.

Except you are ignoring the number of people called to testify who made it safely and testified, then went on to live normal lives afterwards.

Apples and Oranges? Not quite. More like the difference between a Pippin and a Granny Smith.

Nice try.

 

[skepticalcriticalguy]

Except you are ignoring the number of people called to testify who made it safely and testified, then went on to live normal lives afterwards.

Apples and Oranges? Not quite. More like the difference between a Pippin and a Granny Smith.

Nice try.

I was replying to YOUR post. The one I quoted. So yes; apples and oranges.

Perhaps some people are "allowed to live and testify" and others are offed because they put themselves in positions that make them easy targets. It amazes me how many people who have been sitting on major evidence against government officials have chosen to fly around in airplanes! (See Sherman Skolnick's "A Short History of Airplane Sabotage" for a partial list). Maybe they should take a bus.

 

[Bell]

Maybe they should take a bus.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Bus_accidents_in_the_United_States

 

[Roadtoad]

I was replying to YOUR post. The one I quoted. So yes; apples and oranges.

Perhaps some people are "allowed to live and testify" and others are offed because they put themselves in positions that make them easy targets. It amazes me how many people who have been sitting on major evidence against government officials have chosen to fly around in airplanes! (See Sherman Skolnick's "A Short History of Airplane Sabotage" for a partial list). Maybe they should take a bus.

Or maybe you should get a bit realistic.

Accidents happen. They happen all the time. Good pilots, good drivers, good sailors, run into problems. Sometimes, there isn't a damned thing anyone can do about it. When you consider that Steve Fossett was not only one of the most experienced, but capable, pilots flying, and he wound up augering it into the mountains around Mono Lake, this story does not surprise me. Context, Amigo. Pippins and Granny Smiths.

Considering how indestructible you consider Rove, why would he even worry about this guy testifying in the first place? If it were me, I'd not only let him testify, I'd encourage it.

Then what? A wrist slap, a couple of months in jail. I'm willing to bet that by the time Rove had spent a couple of weeks in the pokey, President Obama would have already drafted out the pardon, and Rove would have been cleared within fifteen minutes of his release.

Michael Connell was most likely the victim of any number of things: mechanical failure, something he forgot to check before he started the engine, perhaps a cross wind. Any number of things. But an assassination attempt? Oh, please...

 

[LightinDarkness]

The Bush-Is-Satan crowd is beginning to come undone. I think they realize they have little time left to blame George Bush/everyone else connected to him (like Karl Rove) for everything that is wrong in the world. Desperate times.

 

[A W Smith]

trying to off somone by draining a plane out of fuel is a gamble at best. planes that crash with no fuel dont burst into flames. and many times you can glide to a safe landing.

 

[Roadtoad]

I think I'll wait until the NTSB comes out with their report.

 

[Sword_Of_Truth]

Not exactly. Either he did have something to do with it, or it was an accident plane and simple. In which case, Rove is quite lucky.

No Red. This is still a false dichotomy.

There is a possibility, and given that Rove has never been charged, arrested, indicted or convicted of anything I would even call it a probability, that Rove hasn't done anything wrong.

Either Rove did something nasty and killed Connell to cover it up, or he did something and is lucky that Connell has been silenced, or he did nothing wrong and is not lucky that Connell has died because nothing was going to happen to him anyway.

That's three possibilities, one of which you arbitrarily rule out without cause. Hence the false dichotomy.

EDIT: Ok, I just did the same thing myself (false trichotomy?). I ignored the possibility that Rove did nothing wrong but killed Connell anyway. Human beings have never operated under the obligation to only do things that make sense. I'm fairly certain that the truth will be found somewhere between these four possibilites.