The Swiss are blockading the Gaza Strip?
Israeli blockade 'forces Palestinians to search rubbish dumps for food'
- Thread starter FireGarden
- Start date
The Swiss are blockading the Gaza Strip?
Tin Foil Timothy
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Here's a tip. Most of us don't like terrorists - or people who support, hide, arm, feed, etc. them. In my, never humble, opinion such people deserve opprobrium and/or to have fun made of them according to my whim at the time.
I find your support of terrorism rather distasteful. You do realize that many innocent civilians are dying? Why do you support terrorists fuelair? Can I ask if you display the same opinions when not hiding behind the anonymity of Internet forums?
Thankfully most of us care about innocent civilian lives,so you will never prevail.
Tin Foil Timothy
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)I notice your innocent civilians (or the people they voted/covered for) are about to get a visit from Israel over their FIRING ROCKETS INTO ISRAEL DURING IIRC A TRUCE PERIOD. See if you can figure out the difference between an aggrieved legitimate government and terrorist slime. I did, and therefore support Israel -and it is and has been my opinion that Israel is responding far too gently. Those who know me are quite aware of my beliefs in this area and other things that extend from that opinion.* The innocent civilians need to kill the people who are hiding among them and using them for cover - because Israel has every right to destroy those attacking them wherever they hide. Just as the US does.
*My views on criminals(esp.those who assault others), gangs, active fundamentalist religious (Al Qaueda,various US Sects, IRA), activist/terrorist seperatists (Basques, Tamil Tigers), reformists (Shining Path, etc) and those who hide, feed, support them is they need long, hard deaths. It is not a secret. It has never been a secret.
Dr Adequate
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But what with the blockade, it's so difficult to supply them with the necessary weapons ...
... wait, your solution may be more fraught with difficulties than it first appeared.
a_unique_person
Director of Hatcheries and Conditioning
The truce is over.
Your analogy would be legitimate if it weren't that:
1). Israel IS NOT occupying the Gaza strip, like Germany occupied France;
2). France WAS NOT ruled by a government whose expressed goal is not liberation from German occupation -- not even victory over Germany in a war -- but, explicitly and openly, to kill every last German and to destroy Germany, occupying it with Frenchmen forever.
For this reason, the analogy with Nazi Germany -- which had similar goals about Britian that Hamas has about Israel -- is a far more appropriate situation.
(Of course, the usual gang of idiots want to somehow make the fact that Israel left every last square inch of the Gaza strip meaningless, claiming the "occupation" mysteriously continues. I suppose that by this standard, Italy is occupying Nigreia and Alaska is currently occupied by Albania.)
1). Israel IS NOT occupying the Gaza strip, like Germany occupied France;
2). France WAS NOT ruled by a government whose expressed goal is not liberation from German occupation -- not even victory over Germany in a war -- but, explicitly and openly, to kill every last German and to destroy Germany, occupying it with Frenchmen forever.
For this reason, the analogy with Nazi Germany -- which had similar goals about Britian that Hamas has about Israel -- is a far more appropriate situation.
(Of course, the usual gang of idiots want to somehow make the fact that Israel left every last square inch of the Gaza strip meaningless, claiming the "occupation" mysteriously continues. I suppose that by this standard, Italy is occupying Nigreia and Alaska is currently occupied by Albania.)
a_unique_person
Director of Hatcheries and Conditioning
I was noting that the truce was over, I was making no comment on the rights or wrongs of either sides actions.
FireGarden
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Call it what you want. Israel is still responsible for the citizens of Gaza. They tried to pass that responsibility on to Egypt back in January when Hamas broke through the border. But that didn't happen. So Gaza is still Israel's responsibility.
http://haaretz.com/hasen/spages/947858.html
Haaretz said:
Skeptic said:
Nobody is out to kill every last Israeli. The destruction of Israel is not genocide -- no more than the destruction of Apartheid South Africa was genocide.
Hamas has offered a 2-state solution along the 1967 borders. So has the rest of the Arab world.
Go on... Bring up the charter. Everyone knows what is in the Hamas charter, including the members (leaders) of Hamas who have stated their support for the offer. But Israel refuses to talk about it.
The opinion of Israel isn't the only one that matters:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/5122404.stm
BBC said:
The occupation of Gaza is not over.
Decide upon the borders of Israel, let the Palestinians have control of their borders. Then the occupation is over.
And, no, I don't say the withdrawl is meaningless. It is full of meaning. Israel decided it would not even pretend to negotiate with the Palestinians. And if it wasn't negotiation that forced Israel out after so many years, then what was it?
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BirdStrike
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Well then you disagree with:
The citizens of Gaza, and...
....Egyptian President Hosni Mubarak AND Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas.
Funny that.
Israel unilaterally withdrew their troops from the Gaza strip while maintaining control of the borders, the seacoast, and Palestinian airspace.
If I run a prison and decide to withdraw my guards and let the prisoners run their own internal affairs, while still guarding the walls so that no one can come in or out and no supplies go in or out without my permission, I still run the prison. Israel's withdrawal was not negotiated, it was unilateral. At no time since their withdrawal have the Palestinians controlled their own borders. Italy no longer controls Nigeria's borders. Albania never controlled Alaska's borders. So any comparison to the current situation in Gaza is absurd.
Well then you disagree with:
The citizens of Gaza, and...
....Egyptian President Hosni Mubarak AND Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas.
Funny that.
As in the Wal-mart thread, you remain incapable of grasping the concept of divided responsibilities. Hamas is responsible for their actions, including the military takeover in Gaza and the current shelling. Israel is responsible for their actions, which includes their continued responsibility for the civilian population in Gaza since they remain the occupying power, regardless of which Palestinian faction has local control.
BirdStrike
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Who controls the northern border with your country? It's America and Canada. Trade across that border is not dictated by America, it is run, maintained, and policed by Canada and America. Who controls the border with Gaza? It's Israel and Hamas. Trade across that border is not dictated by Hamas's whims, it is run, maintained, and policed by Israel on one side, and Hamas on the Gaza side.
So if Hamas decides to fire rockets at Israel, Israel has a right to shut it's border down. If America decides to fire rockets at Canada, Canada has a right to shut it's border down as well.
Time to put the "who control's the border" game to bed.
So you would like to see Hamas - an Islamist terror organization - to be able to have air and sea control too. Funny that.
It is a prison of their own making. The Palestinian Authority AND Israel didn't ask Hamas to take control of Gaza in a bloody coup... and then turn it into Qassam central.
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Israel has the right to control its border with Gaza, just as Canada has the right to control its border with the US. However, if Canada decides to also blockade the US coast and takes control of all air travel in and out of the US, then the situation would be a bit different, wouldn't it? Why is this so difficult for you to comprehend?
It's long past time. As soon as you accept reality, we can.
Back to the straw men. I do not particularly desire Hamas to have control. Then again, my desires here are irrelevant. They do not alter the fact that as long as Israel has control they remain the occupying power. If Israel relinquishes control over Gaza's borders then they can rightly claim that they are not responsible for the welfare of the population. They tried to turn over control to the Egyptians, who rejected the idea. They could turn over control to the UN if an agreement could be reached. They could turn over control to Hamas. Not my decision. But as long as they maintain control of the borders they remain responsible.
How could Hamas taking control of Gaza be a coup: I thought they were selected by the residents in a free and fair election? Doesn't the blame belong to Fatah, who refused to turn over authority to the elected government?
Sorry, it is a prison of Israel's making. Israel has controlled the borders since when, 1967? They controlled the borders when they withdrew troops and turned over internal control fully to the Palestinian authority. They controlled the borders when elections were held and Hamas won control of the local councils, and at that time instituted a blockade. They controlled the borders when Hamas wrested control of the internal security apparatus from Fatah. And they control the borders today.
Hamas takeover of internal security in Gaza is akin to a prison riot. Israel is content to let the prisoners fight over who controls the prison as long as the violence stays contained inside. Israel still remains ultimately responsible for the prison.
WildCat
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Arafat had over $300 million in a Swiss bank account when he died. All of it stolen from the PA. It's safe to assume he burned through at least an equivalent amount when he was alive. When you consider that the rest of his government was probably skimming also, is it any wonder the Palestinians find themselves impoverished and hopeless?
Hamas prefers to spend their money on weapons, and I'd be shocked if they weren't also padding their own personal finances.
You can't blame the Palestinians condition on the recent blockade. Their corrupt governments have been spending aid money on weapons and themselves, for as long as they existed. Hardly Israel's fault.
What was he spending this money on? Palaces? Fancy cars? Luxury jets? I don't think so. The Palestinian authority was and is certainly corrupt, but it is not like Arafat was out for personal gain.
Well, when you combine Palestinian corruption with the lack of a viable economy secondary to decades of war, travel, and trade restrictions, it is not surprising at all.
I was not aware that you were privy to Hamas's sources of funding, sources of weapons, or budgets. But I would be shocked if they were not profiteering from the Israeli siege as well.
WildCat
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And yes, Switzerland's banking laws have made them the money launderer of choice for dictators the world over for over half a century. It's fair game to assign blame to the Swiss for the misery caused to developing nations by their kleptocratic leaders when Swiss banking laws assisted their theft of international aid for their own personal uses.
Switzerland has made a few reforms in recent years after the poor guys were embarassed by the revelations they still had assets seized by the Nazis from Jews in WWII as well as billions of dollars stolen by the likes of Baby Doc Duvalier, Ferdinand Marcos, Yasser Arafat, Fidel Castro, and a host of other ruthless dictators. Likewise, they are the bankers of choice for billionaires and companies illegally avoiding the tax man. But they have a long way to go if they want to shed their well-deserved reputation.
Switzerland has made a few reforms in recent years after the poor guys were embarassed by the revelations they still had assets seized by the Nazis from Jews in WWII as well as billions of dollars stolen by the likes of Baby Doc Duvalier, Ferdinand Marcos, Yasser Arafat, Fidel Castro, and a host of other ruthless dictators. Likewise, they are the bankers of choice for billionaires and companies illegally avoiding the tax man. But they have a long way to go if they want to shed their well-deserved reputation.
WildCat
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This is one of the most astonishing things I have ever read! Arafat had no private sector job, and his government job paid a pittance. Yet he had $300 million in a Swiss bank account when he died, but he wasn't out for personal gain!
There's been plenty of evidence offered in this very thread about how Hamas steals the aid meant for the people. They also get money and weapons directly from Iran.
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WildCat
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http://news.scotsman.com/yasserarafat/12m-for-Arafats-widow-to.2579348.jp
Well, I'm sure she and Yasser needed that $2 billion more than the Palestinian people did. Likewise, the £12 million a year a year payments are just so the poor widow can survive!
No personal gain to see here...