Israeli blockade 'forces Palestinians to search rubbish dumps for food'

[Tin Foil Timothy]

While that sounds good on the surface, I think we just end up with another Afgan/Iraq mess.

He meant an Internatanal group not a US/UK Neocon biased group

 

[Tin Foil Timothy]

na an international group.
they should take controll over both, Israel and Palestina.

It's not a bad idea IMO.

but it should be a real international group. Not 150,000 Americans, 10,000 British and 1 soldier each from 40 other countries.

But then Israel has to take notice. Don't forget that Jerusalam is an International City which has been illegally occupied by Israel. Israel also ignores UN resolutions made against it.

 

[Tin Foil Timothy]

If a terrorist organization is stealing aid is it your contention that aid should continue to flow unchecked? Yes or no.

....

I wouldn't disagree that Hamas has committed terrorism, But I also recognise that Israel also commits acts of terrorism in it's treatment of the INNOCENT Palestinians

 

[Tin Foil Timothy]

the Palestinian Children are not the enemy of Israel.
the enemy of Israel is not really punished by the blockade.
the children are.

and im totaly convinced that they will not blame Hamas for the hunger, they will blame Israel.

no mather if that is rational or not.

the Palestinians dont have the Information we have. i doubt they know that hamas is stealing food.

Israel is shooting its own foot. creating new hatred.

and prolly the ordinary Israeli will have to suffer under the new hatred and violence.

Aslong the conditions in Gaza stay as they are, nothing will improve.
the situation is creating humans that see no future and have nothing to loose, humans that are not well educated. Ideal new fodder for suicide bombers.

Indeed. But that's what Israel wants. It needs an excuse to maltreat the Palestinians in order to drive them out of Palestine so it can have the whole caboodle.

If anyone thinks the aim of Israel is to be content with a Palestine that's divided into 2 separate states, one for Israelis and one for Palestinians is fooling themselves.


Israel wants to remove any traces of Islam from Jerusalem and push out the Palestinians from the whole of Palestine.

That's why in practice they are making life hell for Palestinians over and above any reasonable reasons of defense. It's in order to push the Palestinians to desperate measures of retaliation so they can have an excuse to further punish them under the excuse of defense.

 

[Tailgater]

Wow, and the discussion was almost rational for a minute.

 

[WildCat]

who claimed that palestinians were peace-loving and don't support terrorism?

Tin Foil Timothy.

Although this is little proof one way or the other. I would hate to measure the support in the US for environmental causes by the number of votes the Green party got or the support for consumer causes by the number of votes Ralph Nader got.

This would be a great analogy if both the GOP and the Dems were in favor of absolutely destroying the environment, but reality stops this analogy dead in its tracks.

 

[Darth Rotor]

Er ... you've got that the wrong way round. In World War Two, the Germans blockaded the British. And the British won, 'cos we are so awesome cool.

No.

Awesome and cool, yes.

Blockade, yes. Why do you think the Germans had to sneak the pocket battleships out, like the Graf Spee, for them to do their commerce raiding? RN had a distant blockade in place that restricted German commerce. Lucky for the Germans, it was not as effective as might have been, due to their conquests in central Europe.

Close blockade not practical, due to, of course, U Boats.

I'm not much for nationalism, but the Battle of Britain and the Battle of the Atlantic? Damn we are good.

B of Britain, yes, and I admit to bias due to being a pilot. It were superb. I got to attend an RAF Battle of Britain commemorative sunset ceremony a few years back, complete with Tornado over fly.

Awesome.

On the other hand, the Battle of the Atlantic was damn near lost. You've seen the tonnage numbers, I imagine. It was a near run thing. Had Doenitz been listened to, less Bismark, more U Boats, I worry to consider the consequences.

You're a Christian, so you can do something about all this that I can't. Get on your knees and pray.

And we do now and again. So far, not much change.

As to "strange question" Dr A, it's a strange world, and not one bound by the niceties of "rules" before actions. The nature of this war -- or conflict if one doesn't like to deal with words that can be defined away over legalese -- and how ought to be classified seems to have no agreement. This confusion gives the Israelis the freedom to classify it as they wish, and to thus act accordingly.

DR

 

[Pardalis]

but it should be a real international group. Not 150,000 Americans, 10,000 British and 1 soldier each from 40 other countries.

It's not America's fault if the rest of the western world has de-militarized itself. Canada could always help out, but a couple of Sherwood hockey sticks won't do much I'm afraid.

And how will the Palestinians react seeing infidel western nations occupying their lands again?

 

[gtc]

Hamas didn't just drop out of a gumdrop tree one day with welfare, schools, and nurseries. Hamas has been around for over a decade, sending suicide bombers. When Hamas did end up building schools, and nurseries after years of terrorism, it did so to manipulate people to support their military actions.

And so that gullible Westerners like gdnp would see them as charity workers first and foremost. It's amazing how successful they were.

Stealing aid is very prevalent, I'm surprised it is so hard for some people to understand.

Aid is a valuable commodity. It can be resold to enrich the thieves and to fund military and criminal activity. It can be stolen in order to be distributed freely by the thieves - this allows the thieves to appear to be the ones who actually provided the aid in the first place, can ensure that only their supporters get the aid or can be used to give the impression that they could in the future cut off the aid to those who don't support them today. Aid can also be used by the thieves directly to feed their troops or leaders and the savings can be used to fund their other activities.

 

[Tin Foil Timothy]

And how will the Palestinians react seeing infidel western nations occupying their lands again?

The same as they are doing right now I guess.

 

[Tin Foil Timothy]

Wow, and the discussion was almost rational for a minute.

Denial dude. Israel wants all of Palestine. Period.

 

[Pardalis]

na an international group.
they should take controll over both, Israel and Palestina.

It's not a bad idea IMO.
but it should be a real international group.

And how will the Palestinians react seeing infidel western nations occupying their lands again?

The same as they are doing right now I guess.

OK, so it's not such a good idea? I'm not following.

 

[fuelair]

You should be ashamed of yourself.

Have you got some paranoid twisted chip on your shoulder that the whole world is out to get 'Jews'. Get real FFS.

What a disgusting attitude saying that the average Palestinian just wants to kill Jews.

What the average Palestinian wants is to live a decent life in peace without being subjected to the persecution from Israel.

You are a 'useful idiot' to the Zionist extremists and you're comments above are just as bad as the Islamic Extremist rhetoric too.

It's people like you with attitudes like that who are continuing this vile collective punishment of the Palestinians.

I hope the Palestinians continue to stand up to the vile attitudes of people like you. Why should they roll over and be subservient to Zionist extremists who want to drive them out of Palestine.

I bet you haven't got the courage to walk into Gaza and spout your vile rhetoric.

Thankfully ordinary peace loving Israelis don't share such views.



What BS and what a disgusting attitude.

I fully support the lifting of the blockade, but I do not support the killing of Jews or anybody else.

I'm glad not everyone in this world is so inhumane as to want to collectively punish a whole group of people for the crimes of a few. Not everyone in this world is racist, thankfully.

And tell us this Skeptic? What about the Jews who support the lifting of the blockades? Are they also supporting the killing of Jews?

Is somebody posting here? I thought I heard a post but I don't see one - if anybody spots one let me know cause I really thought I heard one splash!! Thanks!!

 

[Tin Foil Timothy]

Is somebody posting here? I thought I heard a post but I don't see one - if anybody spots one let me know cause I really thought I heard one splash!! Thanks!!

Here's a tip: Grow up.

 

[fuelair]

I took Tailgater's comment more to mean an analogy with the USA 2004 election: you don't want Bush re-elected, so you're going to vote Kerry, even though your heart goes out more to Nader..

Well, I night stick Nader's head in crap - that's the only part of me Nader (or Shrub) would ever get.

 

[fuelair]

It's not a bad idea IMO.

but it should be a real international group. Not 150,000 Americans, 10,000 British and 1 soldier each from 40 other countries.

But then Israel has to take notice. Don't forget that Jerusalam is an International City which has been illegally occupied by Israel. Israel also ignores UN resolutions made against it.

Which is odd considering how much others rely on and fully follow those resolutions!!*














*yeah, right

 

[The Fool]

It's not America's fault if the rest of the western world has de-militarized itself. Canada could always help out, but a couple of Sherwood hockey sticks won't do much I'm afraid.

And how will the Palestinians react seeing infidel western nations occupying their lands again?

well, I'd say the ones that are doing nothing now will do nothing and the ones that are attacking people will attack people.

But at least it will get rid of the IDF and lead to the first step required, a palestinian state. Something that will never happen as long as Israel calls the shots.

 

[Pardalis]

well, I'd say the ones that are doing nothing now will do nothing and the ones that are attacking people will attack people.

But at least it will get rid of the IDF and lead to the first step required, a palestinian state. Something that will never happen as long as Israel calls the shots.

I always thought Jordan could do alot more, after all, aren't they Palestinians as well?

 

[The Fool]

I always thought Jordan could do alot more, after all, aren't they Palestinians as well?

Yes, Jordan could have done more....as for "palestinians as well", There are plenty enough tribal and political factionism to allow for division or alignment with just about anyone, depending on your needs at the time. The last thing Jordan wants to do is import people who want to lob things on the Israelis from over the jordan river....or the Jordanian side of the Jordan valley may become the next area Israel would occupy.

I think the biggest "miss" the Jordanians managed was to fail to create a palestinian state on the west bank when they occupied it.....Not sure why they didn't but I assume it must have been against thier interests at the time. maybe they had designs on the place themselves. Or were unwilling to annoy the Israelis.

 

[BirdStrike]

Yes, Jordan could have done more....I think the biggest "miss" the Jordanians managed was to fail to create a palestinian state on the west bank when they occupied it.....Not sure why they didn't but I assume it must have been against thier interests at the time.

http://www.kinghussein.gov.jo/his_palestine.html

Consequently, in December 1948, a group of Palestinian leaders and notables from the West Bank convened a historic conference in Jericho, where they called for King Abdullah to take immediate steps to unite the two banks of the Jordan into a single state under his leadership.

On April 11, 1950, elections were held for a new Jordanian parliament in which the Palestinian Arabs of the West Bank were equally represented. Thirteen days later, Parliament unanimously approved a motion to unite the two banks of the Jordan River, constitutionally expanding the Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan in order to safeguard what was left of the Arab territory of Palestine from further Zionist expansion.

The Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan now included nearly one and a half million people, more than half a million of whom were refugees evicted from Jewish-occupied Palestine. All automatically became citizens of Jordan, a right that had first been offered in December 1949 to all Palestinians who wished to claim it. Although the Arab League opposed this plan, and no other Arab government followed Jordan’s lead, the Hashemite Kingdom offered the possibility of normal life for many people who would have otherwise remained stateless refugees.

Jordan did try to create a state for the Palestinians, and Jordan did give all refugees citizenship who wanted it. The Arab League opposed the plan.