How 9/11 was done

[Trojan]

Just imagine all the trouble if the Mossad actually did all this work and the subject missed the flight

All that work for nothing.

 

[9/11-investigator]

And your agent gets busted by both the neighborhood watch and the Slomin Shield combined and you have the Watergate break in fiasco all over again. Which brings down not only the Israel and the JOOOS but the current administration as well. And all for what? To plant an obscure document in a safe to make a phone call more believable? Is that stupid or what? I can tell by your writing style that you read too many mystery novels. That **** don't sell anymore. It just is not credible.

You have an extremely poor insight in who actually rules your own country. Because Israeli people did get busted and almost nothing happened! I am talking about these dancing Israelis. Did B52 bombers take off from Andrews airbase to teach the '****** little country' (as a French ambassador likes to put it) a lesson? No! This is what happened, much to the chagrin of the grassroots FBI people: "According to the Israeli newspaper Ha’aretz, Deputy Secretary of State Richard Armitage and two unidentified “prominent New York congressmen” lobby heavily for their release. According to a source at ABC News, well-known criminal lawyer Alan Dershowitz also becomes involved as a negotiator to help get the men released. (Dershowitz will later refuse to comment on the matter.)".

They can basically do what they want, as this mr Madoff has recently shown. 50 billion! And he is already free on bail. I am amazed that they do not let him flee to Israel as is usually the case with these Marc Rich/David Miliken types.

For memory refreshment: Dershowitz is an advocate for having a legal base to commit torture.

 

[Bell]

Just imagine all the trouble if the Mossad actually did all this work and the subject missed the flight

All that work for nothing.

Mark Bingham allmost blew the scheme...

But serious, 9/11-investigator, why do you defend the terrorists and (mis)use the victims of 9/11 to push your theories?

And if, indeed, you believe that the phonecalls were faked, why don't you contact the family members who recieved those phonecalls and confront them with you ehm... evidence?

At second thought, don't do that. The last thing the family members want to hear is that the last conversations they had with their loved ones, where faked by the Mossad.

Your theories are disgusting!

 

[Dr Adequate]

You have an extremely poor insight in who actually rules your own country. Because Israeli people did get busted and almost nothing happened! I am talking about these dancing Israelis. Did B52 bombers take off from Andrews airbase to teach the '****** little country' (as a French ambassador likes to put it) a lesson? No! This is what happened, much to the chagrin of the grassroots FBI people: "According to the Israeli newspaper Ha’aretz, Deputy Secretary of State Richard Armitage and two unidentified “prominent New York congressmen” lobby heavily for their release. According to a source at ABC News, well-known criminal lawyer Alan Dershowitz also becomes involved as a negotiator to help get the men released. (Dershowitz will later refuse to comment on the matter.)".

They can basically do what they want, as this mr Madoff has recently shown. 50 billion! And he is already free on bail. I am amazed that they do not let him flee to Israel as is usually the case with these Marc Rich/David Miliken types.

For memory refreshment: Dershowitz is an advocate for having a legal base to commit torture.

Don't you understand that your general paranoid ravings about Jews are not evidence that Evil Jews have done anything in particular?

Prove to me that Jews were behind 9/11.

 

[Bell]

You have an extremely poor insight in who actually rules your own country. Because Israeli people did get busted and almost nothing happened! I am talking about these dancing Israelis. Did B52 bombers take off from Andrews airbase to teach the '****** little country' (as a French ambassador likes to put it) a lesson? No!

Exactly! No!

What reason would the US have to bomb a country because (allegedly) some of their citizens were jubilous over a tragedy that just hit the US?

I don't think you are posting from the same world as we do.

 

[kookbreaker]

So let me get this straight: being an obnoxious tourist in a country is grounds for that country to bomb the country the obnoxious tourist is from?

 

[Regnad Kcin]

The only help I need is someone offering me a contract for a book or movie script. He can PM me.

And thus the actual motive appears (not that it was ever that well hidden). Profit.

Disgusting.

 

[Jonnyclueless]

Fine. What is a shape-shifter if I may ask? What's the difference with a voice morpher?

They allow people to change into the form of other people. Often claimed to be used by aliens. Many say Bush himself is a shape shifter. The point being if you're jsut going to make things up that aren't based on any evidence, then why limit yourself?

 

[lapman]

Baloney. They were not even coughing.

I don't know. Maybe the "I can't breath" may have been a good indication.

They died because of the implosion, that nobody expected except for the button pushers in WTC7. Had WTC not collapsed they would have survived with these ever diminishing fires

More unsubstantiated garbage.

Directly after he screams 'Oh God'. Eat your heart out with this excellent video with majestic shots of the exploding Twin Towers (had not seen some of them before).

Yeah, it sounded just like this
Oh wait, it didn't. As a matter of fact, that sound in not on one single video of the towers collapsing, including the one you posted. OMD, that was just the sound of the collapse. Are the "secondary" explosions in the Cosgrove audio? Nope. Oops. You lose again. Keep grasping at those straws though. You just keep on digging yourself deeper and deeper.

 

[Grizzly Bear]

Except for all the evidence says is was some pissed off Muslims. They even say they did it. There is no evidence whatsoever that the evil jooooooos did it. You just made up some ridiculous, libelous fantasy. That is why your "theory" is disgusting.

There is no reason whatsoever to suspect the jooooos. Well, unless you hate them. Your hero Christopher Bollyn certainly does. Do you?

911-investigator would have his captive audience believe that, in effect, because the evidence available points to Islamic fundamentalist culprits, he asserts fallaciously that this means this burden of blame is being placed on all muslims. Not only is he fallaciously asserting that conclusion, it is also a stawman, a blatantly common one at that. I'm not sure where his argument against the Jooooos holds any legitimacy based on such a strawman.

 

[Dave Rogers]

I agree that you just blew my story. But flexible as I am, I change the story in that the eavesdropper heard that Linda did put the will in her safe. So the guy with the glasses enters Linda's house not just with a new safe but also with a device to crack her old safe. After the cracking he puts the will in the new safe of which he knows the code, as well as the people in the war room in Urban Moving Systems. Story saved.

This is a very revealing passage, as it shows up your whole purpose and approach here. What you're doing with your story is applying multiple levels of the ad hoc fallacy, saving the hypothesis by making up new unproven hypotheses to remedy the deficiencies in your original story; and what you're doing here is using the feedback from JREF to find new places to apply the ad hoc fallacy. Since you're not particularly interested in testing any of your remedial hypotheses, the result is that the longer this thread, the more fallacious your approach. Some might see this as progress.

Do you really believe the official story?

I would really like to know what your take on 9/11 is in a broad outline. You believe in the OCT? If not, then what?

And these comments too are rather revealing. You've been claiming that your purpose here is to refine your hypothesis, to make it more robust. Yet when an impartial outside observer comes in to comment, and points out that your story is an obvious house of cards, your response is (a) to build another storey, (b) to praise yourself for being so clever as to come up with new and exciting ad hoc fallacies on demand, and (c) to question the impartiality of the outside observer. This is hardly the behaviour of someone open to constructive criticism.

I think it's time to move on to some evidence that your story has some connection to reality. So far you've advanced two points in evidence: your personal belief that the "Dancing Jews" must have had foreknowledge of the attacks, which, as it has been repeatedly pointed out, is not supported by the sources you quote; and your personal belief that the Twin Towers were demolished using explosives, a point on which your own views are contradictory, and a belief which has been shown repeatedly to be unwarranted by the evidence. All your talk about voice-morphing and Mossad burglars installing new safes would do no more, even if your reasoning were correct, than establish the feasibility of your hypothesis. Therefore, aside from the two points which have already been refuted, so you have any positive evidence to offer in favour of your story?

Dave

 

[9/11-investigator]

Don't you understand that your general paranoid ravings about Jews are not evidence that Evil Jews have done anything in particular?

Prove to me that Jews were behind 9/11.

Why do you keep asking questions of which you know the answer yourself? I am in no position to prove anything. I do not have the power to subpoena people and to question them. I only can attempt to reconstruct what happened at 9/11 like solving a jigsaw puzzle, where the puzzle pieces consist of snippets of text I found on the internet using my google gizmo and my admittedly rich imagination.

Why do I do that?

Is it because I am an 'anti-wolga-bulgarian'? (You still prefer using the outdated phrase 'anti-semitism').

No, I do that because Dr. Adequate's story is utterly discredited. WTC1/2/7 where obviously brought down by CD. This implies that the Arabs are out. So I have to come up with an alternative explanation. Then we have the dancing Israelis for whose high-fiving behavior my distinguished opponents tellingly have no credible explanation whatsoever and who clearly had foreknowledge. And the fact that traces of explosives were found in their car does not help their case either, to put it mildly. So, they are the prime candidates for being the perpetrators of 9/11. And then the rest falls naturally into place. We have Zakheim with his remote control experience, his PNAC membership and his zionist (Clean Break) affiliations and his new job at the Pentagon were 'coincidentally' a 9/11 plane also struck, conveniently destroying evidence for the 2 trillion mess Zakheim himself helped creating; we have Silverstein with the same affiliations and his connection with Netanyahu, who is a Clean Breaker himself and is able to command the Mossad. Netanyahu in his turn is buddy-buddy with Olmert, who has a former collegue Atzmon, a convicted criminal, who now happens to control the security of several airports in the US (ICTS). Silverstein makes sure that an Israeli security firm (Kroll) is hired so Mossad agents can enter the building undisturbed. I can even tell you the name of the leader of that gang: Israeli demolition expert Peer Segalovitz, who was later arrested, just like the other Israelis from UMS by overzealous FBI-agents, who are still loyal to the American cause. But these Israelis have nothing to worry about, because in these situations higher circles intervene and order to release these Israelis. How did Ariel Sharon put it again while flaming Shimon Peres: "I want to tell you something very clear, don't worry about America. We, the Jewish people, control America, and the Americans know it.".

Exactly. This story is so Bleedin' Obvious that it boggles the mind that one can even attempt to motivate oneself to keep clinging on to that lame Arabs-did-it-story. How did IBM put it again: you are in denial.

 

[scarytruth]

Why do you keep asking questions of which you know the answer yourself? I am in no position to prove anything. I do not have the power to subpoena people and to question them. I only can attempt to reconstruct what happened at 9/11 like solving a jigsaw puzzle, where the puzzle pieces consist of snippets of text I found on the internet using my google gizmo and my admittedly rich imagination.

Why do I do that?

Is it because I am an 'anti-wolga-bulgarian'? (You still prefer using the outdated phrase 'anti-semitism').

No, I do that because Dr. Adequate's story is utterly discredited. WTC1/2/7 where obviously brought down by CD. This implies that the Arabs are out. So I have to come up with an alternative explanation. Then we have the dancing Israelis for whose high-fiving behavior my distinguished opponents tellingly have no credible explanation whatsoever and who clearly had foreknowledge. And the fact that traces of explosives were found in their car does not help their case either, to put it mildly. So, they are the prime candidates for being the perpetrators of 9/11. And then the rest falls naturally into place. We have Zakheim with his remote control experience, his PNAC membership and his zionist (Clean Break) affiliations and his new job at the Pentagon were 'coincidentally' a 9/11 plane also struck, conveniently destroying evidence for the 2 trillion mess Zakheim himself helped creating; we have Silverstein with the same affiliations and his connection with Netanyahu, who is a Clean Breaker himself and is able to command the Mossad. Netanyahu in his turn is buddy-buddy with Olmert, who has a former collegue Atzmon, a convicted criminal, who now happens to control the security of several airports in the US (ICTS). Silverstein makes sure that an Israeli security firm (Kroll) is hired so Mossad agents can enter the building undisturbed. I can even tell you the name of the leader of that gang: Israeli demolition expert Peer Segalovitz, who was later arrested, just like the other Israelis from UMS by overzealous FBI-agents, who are still loyal to the American cause. But these Israelis have nothing to worry about, because in these situations higher circles intervene and order to release these Israelis. How did Ariel Sharon put it again while flaming Shimon Peres: "I want to tell you something very clear, don't worry about America. We, the Jewish people, control America, and the Americans know it.".

Exactly. This story is so Bleedin' Obvious that it boggles the mind that one can even attempt to motivate oneself to keep clinging on to that lame Arabs-did-it-story. How did IBM put it again: you are in denial.

Mr 911 Investigator: I find your hypothosis regarding the Mossad connection to the 911 attacks compelling and rock solid. You've obviously done your homework and have a firm grasp of the octapus and the extent of the tentacles - and Mossad is a beast like no other.
Widely recognized within the intelligence services as the folks that know when countless "persons of interest" fart before they do, for anyone with any working knowledge of the particulars surrounding the attacks to overlook Mossad - is a fatal lapse of judgement.
Surely, you know of Chris Bolyn?
Best regards
MM

 

[Darth Rotor]

I am in no position to prove anything.

Correct.

I only can attempt to reconstruct what happened at 9/11 like solving a jigsaw puzzle, where the puzzle pieces consist of snippets of text I found on the internet using my google gizmo and my admittedly rich imagination.

You flatter yourself.

Is it because I am an 'anti-wolga-bulgarian'?

At least you are honest about that.

No, I do that because Dr. Adequate's story is utterly discredited.

Dr Adequate hardly makes up a story.

WTC1/2/7 where obviously brought down by CD.

No. There is sufficient discussion about how a CD actually works ,and how the WTC fell, provided in the links from this sub forum provided by RMackey and Gravy to show you why the CD theory does not fit the case.

Not only not obvious, but Obviously Not.

This implies that the Arabs are out.

So I have to come up with an alternative explanation.
You have to. Where does this requirement come from?

Then we have the dancing Israelis for whose high-fiving behavior my distinguished opponents tellingly have no credible explanation whatsoever and who clearly had foreknowledge.

It is possible that Mossad agents were on that roof. Or, people who the Mossad knew about. Or any number of things. All of that may be true but that does not make who did the hijacking airliner attack the Mossad. It is more than possible that Mossad had some undercover operatives tracking Islamists hiding in the US. That does not please me, but it is a possible explanation.

So, they are the prime candidates for being the perpetrators of 9/11.

No.

And then the rest falls naturally into place.
We have Zakheim with his remote control experience,

No.

his PNAC membership and his zionist (Clean Break) affiliations

No

and his new job at the Pentagon were 'coincidentally' a 9/11 plane also struck, conveniently destroying evidence for the 2 trillion mess Zakheim himself helped creating;

So a plane was used, was it?

we have Silverstein with the same affiliations and his connection with Netanyahu, who is a Clean Breaker himself and is able to command the Mossad.

Ah, at last a true statement. Netanyahu can direct Mossad operations. How nice.

But these Israelis have nothing to worry about, because in these situations higher circles intervene and order to release these Israelis. How did Ariel Sharon put it again while flaming Shimon Peres: "I want to tell you something very clear, don't worry about America. We, the Jewish people, control America, and the Americans know it.".

So that's what is up my butt: a Jewish hand.

Edited by chillzero: 

Moderated

This story is so Bleedin' Obvious that it boggles the mind that one can even attempt to motivate oneself to keep clinging on to that lame Arabs-did-it-story.

What is bleeding obvious is that you have enough incorrect assertions that the theory does not hold together.

DR

 

[Darth Rotor]

Is it because I am an 'anti-wolga-bulgarian'?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:VolgaBulgaria.jpg

From my brief look into your reference, I get a Volga Bulgarian.

This is a defunct kingdom from the dark ages, with the following attributes.

Capital |Bolghar, Bilär
Language(s)| Bulgar Suar, Barsil, Bilar, Baranja
Religion| Islam
Government| Monarchy
Ruler| - Mid-7th century Kotrag
Historical era| Middle Ages
Established| 7th century
Islam official religion| 922
Conquered by the Golden Horde| 1240s

Was this a clumsy attempt to reference their contemporaries, the Kazars, from a little further south? See this map for a reference as to who was where and when:

​

Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:NE_700ad.jpg
Author: Thomas A. Lessman. Not a rule 4 violation.

Image was created by me (Thomas Lessman) based on map of Eastern Hemisphere in 700AD. Image is free for public and/or educational use. I would appreciate a mention if this image is used elsewhere. If anyone is interested in helping further this work, please contact Thomas Lessman at talessman@yis.us.

I Investigate. Look at what I find: your Volga Bulgarians is a veiled reference to Kazars. But you tell us you are not an anti-semite.

Modern Chuvashes and Kazan Tatars descend from the Volga Bulgars (with more or less significant admixtures of Finno-Ugric and Kipchak Turkic populations, respectively). Another part comprised Finnic and Magyaric (Asagel and Pascatir) tribes, from which Bisermäns and Tatars probably descend.

Right.

But maybe you really don't mean to refer to Kazars. In that case, why do you hate Middle Ages Muslims?

DR

 

[Darth Rotor]

Mr 911 Investigator: I find your hypothosis regarding the Mossad connection to the 911 attacks compelling and rock solid. You've obviously done your homework and have a firm grasp of the octapus and the extent of the tentacles - and Mossad is a beast like no other.
Widely recognized within the intelligence services as the folks that know when countless "persons of interest" fart before they do, for anyone with any working knowledge of the particulars surrounding the attacks to overlook Mossad - is a fatal lapse of judgement.
Surely, you know of Chris Bolyn?
Best regards
MM

(Bolding added by me, Darth Rotor, for what may become obvious reasons)

Dear Scarytruth:

From the first post in this thread, also known as the OP by Mr 911 Investigator, we find the following introductory remarks:

There are only 2 possibilities:

1) Arabs (Arab Conspiracy Theory - ACT)
2) Some kind of inside job (CIA, Mossad)

We all know the official story line. I have spent some time constructing a counter theory, the Israeli Conspiracy Theory (ICT) to see how far one can get with it. The theory is for 90% based on the work of Christopher Bollyn.

Intelligent businesslike comments are appreciated.​

At least your comment was businesslike.

If you need further assistance in comprehension, you have but to ask.

Your humble servant​

Darth Rotor​

 

[9/11-investigator]

It's now late afternoon 23 December, one day before Christmas eve. My last post #1372 pretty much sums up my position. I'm going to force myself to 'kick the randi habbit' until at least January 1. This exercise, blog + 327 posts costing somewhere between 1-2 man months, is taking a too heavy toll on my private and economic life. I am not quiting but I am reducing the forum effort and will post less regular. I have learned a lot here and this experience has strengthened my conviction that the OCT can not be true. Does that mean that 'my own' theory is necessarily true? By no means. I am 100% convinced of WTC1/2/7 CD. I am also convinced of Israeli foreknowledge/involvment and that 'Israel' is likely the perpetrator of 9/11, possibly with aide from rogue elements within the CIA (as Cossiga claims). But I cannot prove it, possibly never will, restricted as I am to my google gizmo. I for myself have constructed a story that is not (too much) in contradiction with the observed facts and accounts for a motive, although I am sure that the rest of the forum disagrees. But it is merely a story, other stories are possible as well.

At least you guys are not boring, what cannot be said of truther forums who hardly care to respond.

I wish everybody here a merry Christmas (and Happy Hannukkah for the other half of the forum) and a Happy New Year for all...

...and many new insights regarding 9/11 in 2009, insights I will be more than happy to provide.

 

[twinstead]

Did I miss the change in definition of "refinement" to "Make ones story even more improbable by making up even more complicated scenarios to fill in obvious holes in ones story"?

Why don't I ever get the memos, people? I've paid my NWO dues.

 

[doobiedoright]

I just came up with a story in a previous post. The fact that the Mossad put the will in a Walmart safe does not mean that Gronlund kept it in a safe. How they knew? Eavesdropping.



Many people book flight weeks in advance, more than enough time to study the peculiarities of the victims by eavesdropping.

First you state something as fact when you have shown no evidence it is even possible.This is not Syria!
Second The US does not evasdropp on it's people.You have believed a lie feed to you by fools!
The only calls listened to are from outside the US!
Will you ever get one thing right in all these pages?
You should be ashamed of your self.
Why do you hate America?

 

[Trojan]

And happy holidays to you, 911 Investigator, in the land of OZ where all things are possible - even those that defy reason.