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Iraqi Journalist Throws Shoes At Bush..Misses

On what do you base this assertion?

Ask the Kurds and the Marsh Arabs, for starters. There's a fair chance they will not be genocided under a democratic government, as they were under Saddam. It's not necessarily the case -- perhaps a democratic government will devolve into anarchy and the massacres will start again -- but better a possible salvation with democracy, than certain doom with Saddam.

But you're right: the country's infrastructure IS in ruins. Still, that too has a positive side: when the country's infrastructure was operating well, Saddam had very little trouble sending tanks and soldiers and poison-gas trucks to genocide those people, nor did the vans carrying his political opponents to one of the many prisons he built for them encounter any delay on the way.

Ah, the good old days, before evil American imperialism...
 
Bush isn't pro-democracy in Iraq. He's pro Capitalist "Profit before people" where all his buddies can leech all the wealth from the country.

.
You claim not to be anti-semitic, yet you use their terminology.

This is a serious question ....

Can I ask what your IQ is?

Are you seriously, and with a straight face, proclaiming that someone could be antisemitic because they used the word 'leech' ?


Bud, I'm honestly beginning to think there is something wrong with you.
 
2). It was NOT a deliberate lie, but simply a mistake. Why would anybody claim Saddam had WMDs when they knew they didn't, when it is obvious that in that case they'd be greatly embarrased by not finding them later on?
.

Your logic for it not being a deliberate lie has no strength or credibility

Do you really think that people who don't miss a heartbeat about a million civilians getting killed would be worried about any embarrassment of the eventual revelation there were really no WMDs?

They don't give a flying ****

They knew they could just blame it on someone else. Incompetence, Flawed intle, etc, etc. Doesn't matter the job is done.

Iraq was invaded on a lie.
 
Iraqi's yearn for "the good ol' days" because they were better for most than the New American Century days.

This is true. Even though most Iraqis are glad to get rid of Saddam, they are much worse off now under the PNAC regime.

"pro-democracy Bush" - ROFLMAO!!! Still a classic. If that guy didn't have such a hatred of the Palestinians I'd say he was a comedy genius!
 
After Iraq was shock and awed to shreds, who got the contracts for reconstruction? The Iraqis didn't they? Nope. Even though it cost up to 20 times as much the reconstruction was given to, guess, the western corporates who flew in services and supplies, instead of sourcing them locally and helping the Iraq economy.

Do you have any reliable sources on that, any numbers?
 
1). It was NOT the main reason for going to war ...
We have always been at war with Eastasia.

Here's the text of Powell's speech to the U.N, the speech that he later described as a painful blot on his record. Reading it over, what would you say was the main reason he gives for going to war, if not WMDs?

2). It was NOT a deliberate lie, but simply a mistake. Why would anybody claim Saddam had WMDs when they knew they didn't, when it is obvious that in that case they'd be greatly embarrased by not finding them later on?
'Cos by that time they'd had the war they wanted. Being "embarrassed" might seem a small price to pay, especially as this only applies to people with a sense of shame. Colin Powell was embarrassed, but I can't think of another senior official who's betrayed the least embarrassment. Perhaps you can: if so, feel free to quote them.

But yes, it might have been a combination of wishful thinking and drooling idiocy, or "woo" as we call it round here. I don't see how that makes it OK.

Or take the "mission accomplished" sign:

1). It wasn't put up by Bush or his people, but by the carrier's crew, to emphasize THEIR SPECIFIC MISSION was accomplished (as they came back to port after making it).
As the White House has admitted, the banner was made, and hung in that particular position, by White House staff:

Not long afterwards, the White House had to amend its account. The soldiers hadn't put up the sign; the White House had done the hoisting. It had also produced the banner — contrary to what senior White House officials had said for months. In the end, the White House conceded on those details, but declared them mere quibbles. The point was, they said, that the whole thing had been done at the request of the crewmembers. Even that explanation didn't sit well with some long-time Bush aides. "They (the White House) put up banners at every event that look just like that and we're supposed to believe that at this one it was the Navy that requested one?" asked a senior administration official. Others remember staffers boasting about how the president had been specifically positioned during his speech so that the banner would be captured in footage of his speech.

And even if you wish to deny what the White House has admitted, are you trying to claim that Bush standing slap-bang in front of it was not an intentional photo-op?

mission-accomplished.jpg

Of all the things that he could have stood in front of, he just happened to stand in front of that?

Damn, such terrible bad luck.

2). Bush's own speech on that very same carrier empasized the Iraq mission was NOT accomplished yet.

Let's hear from Bush, shall we?

Admiral Kelly, Captain Card, officers and sailors of the USS Abraham Lincoln, my fellow Americans: Major combat operations in Iraq have ended. In the Battle of Iraq, the United States and our allies have prevailed.

And yet these two claims are not merely rants on the fringes of the left -- of the "Obama is a Muslim" or "Obama not American" sort rants on the fringers of the right. These are practically dogma with half of the democrats.
Let's be frank, they are "practically dogma" with anyone whose view of reality is not obscured by Bush's ass.
 
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We have always been at war with Eastasia.
How trite. Please remember that neither Bush nor Powell were clairvoyant. Saddam had programs in some state unknown, I recommend the Scheuer points about how intel dried up after Desert Fox to indicate how in the dark the Bush admins were. Therefore, using an unfortunate helping of confirmation bias, Bush and his team chose to make a worst case assumption about the programs that, within a year of the egg being broken open to see if it had one or two yokes, were not where they had been assessed to be. Time and again I find the Cheney attempts at six sigma in national security decision assessment to be the core problem here, his much ballyhooed unwillingness to deal with the 1/100 or 1/1000 risk. On that basis, the decision process is even more appalling, and IMO, more telling.

We aren't dealing with a lie here. We are dealing with a profound case of

1. Myopia
2. Zero defects woo.
3. A false dichotomy in terms of what options were available. Two is not the correct number, and rarely is at that level.

That is, to me, far more troubling than anything so simple as a lie.

DR
 
Ah, the good old days, before evil American imperialism...

I am sure the quarter of the iraki population that is displaced or dead as a result of the invation are real gratefull for being liberated.

Look on the bright side, american imperialism is no more evil than so many other empires through history, just more powerfull.
 
He didnt miss with that throw! Bush's extraordinary shoe dodging capabilities kicked in, and we all seen what happened next...
 
He didnt miss with that throw! Bush's extraordinary shoe dodging capabilities kicked in, and we all seen what happened next...

That Iraqi "journalist" manged to hit the American flag, but couldn't tag a guy 10 feet in front of him, twice. But he will get a lot of practise being tagged himself while enjoying the hospitality of the local gray bar hotel.
 
mission-accomplished.jpg

Of all the things that he could have stood in front of, he just happened to stand in front of that?

Damn, such terrible bad luck.

What? You mean the Autocue. :)

Never mind Painting by Numbers, this is Presidency by Numbers. Is he that much of a drone that he has to have a victory speech scripted. but then all good fiction is scripted isn't it? :)
 
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I do wish they'd make up their mind -- either Bush is an evil genius or else he's a moron. And no, "He's a moron used by evil geniuses" doesn't cut it, except for being an afterthought excuse for holding obviously contrary views about Bush.
 
I do wish they'd make up their mind -- either Bush is an evil genius or else he's a moron. And no, "He's a moron used by evil geniuses" doesn't cut it, except for being an afterthought excuse for holding obviously contrary views about Bush.

Why doesn't it cut it?
 
I am sure the quarter of the iraki population that is displaced or dead as a result of the invation are real gratefull for being liberated.

Over 70,000 French citizens died from Allied bombings before France was liberated in WWII. Nearly a million French homes were destroyed, or partially destroyed, by the Allies and even one or two cities were completely destroyed. Yet, most french citizens were indeed grateful for being liberated.

Many Iraqis people hated the U.S. before 1991, before 2003, and will always hate the U.S. What else is new?
 
How trite. Please remember that neither Bush nor Powell were clairvoyant ...

We aren't dealing with a lie here. We are dealing with a profound case of

1. Myopia
2. Zero defects woo.
3. A false dichotomy in terms of what options were available. Two is not the correct number, and rarely is at that level.

That is, to me, far more troubling than anything so simple as a lie.
My Orwell quote was not aimed at Bush et al, but at Skeptic, when he claimed that WMDs were never offered as the main reason for invading Iraq. This is a blatant rewriting of history. This is indeed on a par with Stalin airbrushing Trotsky out of photographs and with the Orwellian statement that "We have always been at war with Eastasia."
 
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I do wish they'd make up their mind -- either Bush is an evil genius or else he's a moron. And no, "He's a moron used by evil geniuses" doesn't cut it, except for being an afterthought excuse for holding obviously contrary views about Bush.
When you have to break new records in logical fallacies, this is nature's way of telling you that you're wrong.

I make that a false trichotomy involving three different straw men. If you're going for some sort of a record, why don't you throw in a petitio principii?
 

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