Israeli blockade 'forces Palestinians to search rubbish dumps for food'

[BirdStrike]

Israeli troops haven't occupied Gaza since 2005.

We both know Israel doesn't occupy Gaza. We both know as the military force in charge of Gaza Hamas is actually the party responsible for the citizens living there. We also know Israel would never cede air and sea control to an Islamic terrorist organization sworn to it's destruction.

But it's quite amusing watching the denial of Hamas's responsibilities in this thread, and the rejection that the Palestinian people had anything to do with Hamas winning a large majority in their Palestinian parliament.

Business as usual at JREF it seems.


edited to add

legal-dictionary

Although the power of the occupying army is broad, the military authorities are obligated under international law to maintain public order, respect private property, and honor individual liberties.

washingtonpost

Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas dissolved the Palestinian government Thursday and declared a state of emergency after rival Hamas forces took complete control of the Gaza Strip in what the Islamic movement called the territory's "liberation."

"This is a victory not only for Hamas but for all Palestinians," said Fawzi Barhoum, a Hamas spokesman in Gaza. "The first liberation was from the occupation. This liberation is from these Fatah militias supported by our enemies."

 

[The Fool]

Feel free to explain how the Iraqi elections (in the Saddam era) were free and fair.

seems to me any election is a matter of choice between available options.

who would you have voted for The Hamas faction or the Yasser Arafat faction. Either way you are a supporter of terrorists?

we need to invade palestine and provide them with a couple of alternate governments all of which we approve of....agreed?

 

[The Fool]

Israel has intervened in Palestine. That's how come you call them the occupied territories.

Elections have been set up for the Palestinians and they have elected their leaders.

And yet here we still are.

No...we need to only give them a choice we appprove of. We didn't let the Bathist parties stand in Iraqi elections. We need to do the same thing in Palestine.

Invade
invite alternate acceptable governments to stand.
proclaim free palestine

whats wrong with that scenario?

 

[fuelair]

Your attitude is vile.

Coming from you, that makes me truly proud!! Thank you!!

 

[Thunder]

No...we need to only give them a choice we appprove of. We didn't let the Bathist parties stand in Iraqi elections. We need to do the same thing in Palestine.

Invade
invite alternate acceptable governments to stand.
proclaim free palestine

whats wrong with that scenario?

Yes. Israel should an install a liberal-Democratic government in Gaza.

Im sure it would last..um....4 minutes.

Hamas won for a reason.

 

[WildCat]

seems to me any election is a matter of choice between available options.

who would you have voted for The Hamas faction or the Yasser Arafat faction. Either way you are a supporter of terrorists?

we need to invade palestine and provide them with a couple of alternate governments all of which we approve of....agreed?

Now that you've punted rather than explain how the Iraqi elections were free and fair, you wish to discuss the Gaza elections.

So feel free to explain why the residents of Gaza decided to elect an internationally recognized terrorist group to power, rather than elect non-terrorists to power. If you care to, explain why any party advocating peace with Israel and recognition of its right to exist can't even get enough support to be viable in the first place.

 

[The Fool]

Now that you've punted rather than explain how the Iraqi elections were free and fair, you wish to discuss the Gaza elections.

Sorry, I didn't notice you had been distracted by the word "election". You choose to hold Palistinians responsible for the terrorists...but not Iraqis. I was just wondering why as the answer "because they elected them" is so shallow I assumed you would be too clever to swallow it....my bad.

who would you have voted for? Hamas or fatah?

So feel free to explain why the residents of Gaza decided to elect an internationally recognized terrorist group to power, rather than elect non-terrorists to power. If you care to, explain why any party advocating peace with Israel and recognition of its right to exist can't even get enough support to be viable in the first place.

come on son....where is your spine. Why don't we invade, throw out the terrorist government. Give them a couple of alternate governments that we approve of to choose from and bingo!

whats wrong with that scenareo?

 

[The Fool]

Yes. Israel should an install a liberal-Democratic government in Gaza.

Im sure it would last..um....4 minutes.

Hamas won for a reason.

No parky...you have to get off this fixation that it would be Israel imposing anything......we get a coalition of the willing to do it. Israel is not allowed to run the place any more....got a problem with that?

 

[WildCat]

Sorry, I didn't notice you had been distracted by the word "election". You choose to hold Palistinians responsible for the terrorists...but not Iraqis.

No, I don't hold the citizens of a dictatorship responsible for the actions of the dictator.

I was just wondering why as the answer "because they elected them" is so shallow I assumed you would be too clever to swallow it....my bad.

Let me know when you want to actually make any sense, because your incoherent babbling doesn't make for good conversation.

who would you have voted for? Hamas or fatah?

I would have voted for some other party or sat out the election. The Palestinians, OTOH, came out in droves to vote for an internationally recognized terrorist group in what all outside observers said was a free and fair election.

Now, maybe you'd like to explain why Palestinians should face no consequences for electing an internationally recognized terrorist group as their government?





come on son....where is your spine. Why don't we invade, throw out the terrorist government. Give them a couple of alternate governments that we approve of to choose from and bingo!

whats wrong with that scenareo?[/quote]

 

[WildCat]

come on son....where is your spine. Why don't we invade, throw out the terrorist government. Give them a couple of alternate governments that we approve of to choose from and bingo!

whats wrong with that scenareo?

Nah, I'm happy letting them lie in the bed they made for themselves.

Maybe you Aussies can invade and fix the place if it bothers you so. Shouldn't be a problem, they're just normal everyday people just like the people in your town I'm sure.

 

[Skeptic]

Impoverished Palestinians on the Gaza Strip are being forced to scavenge for food on rubbish dumps to survive

Oh, things aren't THAT bad. They DO have enough money for rockets, mortars, daily bombing of Israeli cities, AK-47s, sending Hamas members to be trained in Iran, staging mass performances about how the evil Jews are going to be butchered, TV stations with Mickey Mouse characters teaching five-year-olds to kill Jews, etc., etc., etc.

Sorry, but I find it hard to feel compassion for blockading those whose open, and expressed, goal is to use every penny they get for weapons to kill me.

Besides, lifting the blockade won't help: since an impoverished population is so good in getting the useful idiots to blame Israel, Hamas will continue to impoverish its own people deliberately even if the blockade will be lifted, for propaganda purposes, and will simply use any additional money it can get to smuggle in more weapons to kill more Jews and bolster its own control.

This is a well-known trick: Saddam Hussein did this in Iraq, deliberately starving his people to get the same useful idiots to shed tears and blame the "evil USA sanctions", while using the money he got for food to build more palaces, tanks, etc., etc.

It is the same trick used by African dictators, too: ask the west for help to stop starvtion, get money, spend it all building palaces for yourself, rinse, repeat. The useful idiots LOVE it. Makes them feel compassionate to spend taxpayer's money to help "the poor in Africa" -- actually, the dictators there -- which leads, as Theodore Dalrymple said, to African aid being merely a case of poor people in rich countries giving money to rich people in poor countries.

Anyway, the bottom line is that to support lifting the blockade means merely to support the killing of more Jews with bigger and better weapons. It will be of little or no help to the Palestinians, who will be deliberately and cynically impoverished and brutally controlled under Hamas (as they were under Arafat) so that their leaders will be able to squeeze the west for money for weapons to kill Jews, no matter what.

I know, I know -- this is "Al-Guardian" we're talking about, so I guess I shoudln't be surprised.

 

[DC]

looks like for some, Palestinians are not humans anymore.
will extrem poverty prevent terrorism or will it increase it.

 

[fuelair]

looks like for some, Palestinians are not humans anymore.
will extrem poverty prevent terrorism or will it increase it.

Palestinians have potential to be people and many are. Hamas, not really. If Hamas was where it should be, Palestine should be fine.longs

 

[Tin Foil Timothy]

Oh, things aren't THAT bad. They DO have enough money for rockets, mortars, daily bombing of Israeli cities, AK-47s, sending Hamas members to be trained in Iran, staging mass performances about how the evil Jews are going to be butchered, TV stations with Mickey Mouse characters teaching five-year-olds to kill Jews, etc., etc., etc.

Sorry, but I find it hard to feel compassion for blockading those whose open, and expressed, goal is to use every penny they get for weapons to kill me.

Besides, lifting the blockade won't help: since an impoverished population is so good in getting the useful idiots to blame Israel, Hamas will continue to impoverish its own people deliberately even if the blockade will be lifted, for propaganda purposes, and will simply use any additional money it can get to smuggle in more weapons to kill more Jews and bolster its own control.

This is a well-known trick: Saddam Hussein did this in Iraq, deliberately starving his people to get the same useful idiots to shed tears and blame the "evil USA sanctions", while using the money he got for food to build more palaces, tanks, etc., etc.

It is the same trick used by African dictators, too: ask the west for help to stop starvtion, get money, spend it all building palaces for yourself, rinse, repeat. The useful idiots LOVE it. Makes them feel compassionate to spend taxpayer's money to help "the poor in Africa" -- actually, the dictators there -- which leads, as Theodore Dalrymple said, to African aid being merely a case of poor people in rich countries giving money to rich people in poor countries.

Anyway, the bottom line is that to support lifting the blockade means merely to support the killing of more Jews with bigger and better weapons. It will be of little or no help to the Palestinians, who will be deliberately and cynically impoverished and brutally controlled under Hamas (as they were under Arafat) so that their leaders will be able to squeeze the west for money for weapons to kill Jews, no matter what.

I know, I know -- this is "Al-Guardian" we're talking about, so I guess I shoudln't be surprised.

You should be ashamed of yourself.

Have you got some paranoid twisted chip on your shoulder that the whole world is out to get 'Jews'. Get real FFS.

What a disgusting attitude saying that the average Palestinian just wants to kill Jews.

What the average Palestinian wants is to live a decent life in peace without being subjected to the persecution from Israel.

You are a 'useful idiot' to the Zionist extremists and you're comments above are just as bad as the Islamic Extremist rhetoric too.

It's people like you with attitudes like that who are continuing this vile collective punishment of the Palestinians.

I hope the Palestinians continue to stand up to the vile attitudes of people like you. Why should they roll over and be subservient to Zionist extremists who want to drive them out of Palestine.

I bet you haven't got the courage to walk into Gaza and spout your vile rhetoric.

Thankfully ordinary peace loving Israelis don't share such views.

Anyway, the bottom line is that to support lifting the blockade means merely to support the killing of more Jews with bigger and better weapons.

What BS and what a disgusting attitude.

I fully support the lifting of the blockade, but I do not support the killing of Jews or anybody else.

I'm glad not everyone in this world is so inhumane as to want to collectively punish a whole group of people for the crimes of a few. Not everyone in this world is racist, thankfully.

And tell us this Skeptic? What about the Jews who support the lifting of the blockades? Are they also supporting the killing of Jews?

 

[gdnp]

1) So Hamas forces took control of Gaza, but Israel actually occupies Gaza. Uhhhmmm. ok.

Who controls the borders? Not just the border with Israel, but the sea coast? Who controls the airspace? Why doesn't Hamas just ship in supplies from outside? Oh, I guess that would be because the Israelis run the place like a prison camp, wouldn't it? Hamas may be acting as the guards, but if they try to leave, they'll be shot.

2) So Hamas forces took control of Gaza, but as the real occupying power, Israel is actually responsible for the civilian population of Gaza under international law.

Hamas control is the equivalent of the prisoners running the prison. The Israelis let them run the internal affairs because it is easier than getting their own people shot. The Gaza strip cannot feed itself. Unemployment is more than 50%. They have no fuel except what is shipped in. Who controls the borders? Oh, that would be Israel.

Who was the occupying power in the Warsaw ghetto?

3) Hamas actually doesn't occupy Gaza. Ahhh...ok.

You can be an occupant without being the occupying power. Who controls everything brought legally in or out of Gaza?

4) So Hamas does occupy Gaza now? I'm getting confused.

I am an occupant of my house. That does not make me the occupying power.
Who controls the coast? Who controls the airspace? Who controls everything that comes in and out?

5) So even though Hamas won a large majority in the new Palestinian parliament... it is really me that has "a problem."

No, Israel and the Palestinians have a problem. The US demanded that the Palestinians hold free and fair elections, and the Israelis hamstrung the Palestinian authority which, combined with their own incompetence and corruption, caused their popularity to plummet. Hamas' election was the direct result.

6) I have a hard time supporting Islamist militants recognized as a terrorist organization by the US, EU, Canada, and Israel. Call me crazy.

Supporting Hamas would be sending them money and weapons. Has anyone asked you to do that?

So here's a question for you: why do you think a large majority of the Palestinian population voted a terrorist organization in to power in Gaza? Do you think that current Israeli policies are likely to lead to a more or less radical population?

 

[Tin Foil Timothy]

looks like for some, Palestinians are not humans anymore.

Unfortunately there are people like Skeptic in Israel who are mistreating Palestinians on the basis they are not human.

will extreme poverty prevent terrorism or will it increase it.

people like Skeptic don't understand that people in a desperate situation will use desperate measures to fight back.

 

[DC]

Unfortunately there are people like Skeptic in Israel who are mistreating Palestinians on the basis they are not human.




people like Skeptic don't understand that people in a desperate situation will use desperate measures to fight back.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maslow's_hierarchy_of_needs

it will backfire, then the outcry is big again in our media.

 

[Tin Foil Timothy]

Nah, I'm happy letting them lie in the bed they made for themselves.

Maybe you Aussies can invade and fix the place if it bothers you so. Shouldn't be a problem, they're just normal everyday people just like the people in your town I'm sure.

I know you don't really care, but the Palestinians are human beings. With feelings. Maybe one day your wife or mother might not be able to get medical care and die in pain because some occupying racist power has a checkpoint set up in the middle of Chicago. Let's hope that never happens eh?

 

[Tin Foil Timothy]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maslow's_hierarchy_of_needs

it will backfire, then the outcry is big again in our media.

Organizations that rely on force, intimidation and persecution to perpetuate their existence always fail in the end.

 

[gdnp]

We both know Israel doesn't occupy Gaza. We both know as the military force in charge of Gaza Hamas is actually the party responsible for the citizens living there. We also know Israel would never cede air and sea control to an Islamic terrorist organization sworn to it's destruction.

Hey, all they need is some loaves and fishes and it will be enough to feed everyone. It worked once in the middle east, why not again?

If you and I have a dispute, and I lock you and your family in your house until you capitulate to my demands, controlling all the food, water, medicine, and electricity that goes in, who's fault is it if your kids starve?

But it's quite amusing watching the denial of Hamas's responsibilities in this thread, and the rejection that the Palestinian people had anything to do with Hamas winning a large majority in their Palestinian parliament.

I see you have maintained your mastery of the straw man argument. The palestinians bear responsibility for their actions, as do members of Hamas and the organization as a whole. The Israeli government bears responsibility for their actions.

looks like for some, Palestinians are not humans anymore.

This is another of Birdstrike's specialties. Everything is black and white. Everyone is good or evil.

For example, the Wal-mart employee who was trampled to death on Black Friday was trampled by animals, not people. As best I can tell he is entirely lacking in empathy. Large populations of people do bad things because they are evil, not because they are basically normal people who have been placed in evil circumstances