Invocation at Obama's Inauguration by... Rick Warren? The ****?

The disturbing part for me is just how unnecessary this gesture is. The election is over, he's won, it'll be four years before he needs to seriously worry about small time panders like this again, and yet, he goes through with it anyway?

I have a hard time believing it's just for political reasons.

Then again, Obama has always had piss-poor taste in religious leaders.
 
Sefarst said:
Then again, Obama has always had piss-poor taste in religious leaders.
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Ain't that the truth. Now that the election is safely out of the way, I want to hear Obama answer for how he let that raging idiot charlatan, "Reverend" Wright, be his mentor.

:D
 
hgc said:
Ain't that the truth. Now that the election is safely out of the way, I want to hear Obama answer for how he let that raging idiot charlatan, "Reverend" Wright, be his mentor.

:D
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How to get ahead in Chicago politics without really trying.
 
As long as Obama is pi**ing off the Right *AND* the Left, he'll do fine with most Americans, which seems to be his goal.
 
Skeptic said:
Obama is in the same situation as the judge in the old joke, who got $400 from the plaintiff and $500 from the defendant under the table, so he returns $100 to the defendant and can now try the case on its merits.

Having support from so many special interest groups which want so many contrary things, he is bound to disappoint 90% even if were to do nothing but pander to them, simply as a matter of logic. So he might as well be fair, ignore them all equally, and govern as he sees best, without concerning himself about what NOW or Priests for Obama or the LGBT community or Jews for Jesus want.
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Please explain how your analogy applies to gays and lesbian who want to marry people of the same sex.

As long as Obama is pi**ing off the Right *AND* the Left, he'll do fine with most Americans, which seems to be his goal.
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America is the Right and the Left.
 
The election is over, he's won, it'll be four years before he needs to seriously worry about small time panders like this again, and yet, he goes through with it anyway?
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He's not pandering. He agrees that marriage is between one man and one woman, just like Warren.

Now that the election is safely out of the way, I want to hear Obama answer for how he let that raging idiot charlatan, "Reverend" Wright, be his mentor.
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The answer is that he looked up to, and agreed with the doctrine of Wright.
 
Please explain how your analogy applies to gays and lesbian who want to marry people of the same sex
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They're a special interest group. Like all special interest groups, they want their demands met OR ELSE, claiming that anything else but agreeing with them is proof one is an evil racist sexist homophobe. Such a Manichean world view -- everybody who disagrees with our demands is evil -- is very typical of such groups.

But the simple truth is that there is no such thing as the "right" to marry someone of the same sex, any more than there's a "right" to polygamy or to incest. It is up to society in general to determine what unions it will recognize as official marriages and which will not. Most Americans -- correctly, in my view -- consider the idea that homosexuals have a right to single-sex marriage to be about as reasonable as St. Constantine's view that homosexuals are the cause of earthquakes.

The LBGT community disagrees, but being really angry and shouting "homophobe!" hardly means one is correct, it just means one is frustrated at society for not getting something one wants. But not getting what one wants hardly means one's rights are being violated.

So Obama, in his opposition to gay marriage, is following the will of most Ameircans, and not that of the LGBT special interest group.
 
Skeptic said:
They're a special interest group. Like all special interest groups, they want their demands met OR ELSE, claiming that anything else but agreeing with them is proof one is an evil racist sexist homophobe. Such a Manichean world view -- everybody who disagrees with our demands is evil -- is very typical of such groups.

But the simple truth is that there is no such thing as the "right" to marry someone of the same sex, any more than there's a "right" to polygamy or to incest. It is up to society in general to determine what unions it will recognize as official marriages and which will not. Most Americans -- correctly, in my view -- consider the idea that homosexuals have a right to single-sex marriage to be about as reasonable as St. Constantine's view that homosexuals are the cause of earthquakes.

The LBGT community disagrees, but being really angry and shouting "homophobe!" hardly means one is correct, it just means one is frustrated at society for not getting something one wants. But not getting what one wants hardly means one's rights are being violated.

So Obama, in his opposition to gay marriage, is following the will of most Ameircans, and not that of the LGBT special interest group.
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Amazingly, it appears that you are completely wrong, again.
 
Amazingly, it appears that you are completely wrong, again.
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All the nationwide polls that I've seen, including your links, show more people against gay marriage than in favor of it, although the trend has been moving toward acceptance.
 
IMHO Obama is probably attempting to be inclusive. Essentially, he is stating that he doesn't have to agree with you about everything to work with you in areas where there is common ground.

I agree that if he had nominated Rick Warren to some government post that had jurisdiction over gay/lesbian issues or abortion that this would be most disturbing. I doubt he will do so. If, however, there are other issues, such as the environment, where Obama and Warren have opinions that overlap, then having an ally like Warren might be most useful in getting things done.

I have several friends much more conservative than I am about social issues. I avoid these topics of discussion and enjoy their friendship otherwise.
 
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Skeptic said:
So Obama, in his opposition to gay marriage, is following the will of most Ameircans, and not that of the LGBT special interest group.
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ImaginalDisc said:
Amazingly, it appears that you are completely wrong, again.
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Who are you trying to kid?

These are from the articles you listed.

http://www.propeller.com/story/2008/12/06/poll-support-surges-for-gay-marriage/
Fifty-five percent of respondents favored legally sanctioned unions or partnerships, while only 39 percent supported marriage rights.
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http://www.religioustolerance.org/hom_marp.htm
2006-MAR: <California> Poll by Angus Reid Global Scan:
When asked whether the state should recognize same-sex relationships, or merely consider them as roommates, their response was spit in a three-way tie:
32% felt they should be allowed to marry.
32% felt they should be allowed to form civil unions or domestic partnerships, but not be allowed to marry.

When allowed only the choice between two alternatives, the results were:
51% oppose the availability of same-sex marriage.
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2006-MAY-08: A Gallup Organization poll: They conducted a poll among 1,002 American adults from 2006-MAY-08 to 11.

On extending marriage to include same-sex couples:
58% are opposed.
39% are in favour.
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http://www.cbsnews.com/htdocs/pdf/MAYB-GAYMARRIAGE.pdf
30 percent say same-sex couples should be allowed to marry
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By the way, its incredible that you thought you could include this one. We know Prop 8 passed.

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2008/09/24/BAMV134E8L.DTL

Proposition 8, a constitutional amendment to ban same-sex marriage, is in dire straits, with 55 percent of likely voters opposed and 41 percent in favor of the ban.
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Neally said:
All the nationwide polls that I've seen, including your links, show more people against gay marriage than in favor of it, although the trend has been moving toward acceptance.
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I agree and I think the trend will continue to move toward acceptance. I think when Obama is an old man, fund raising for his Presidential library, he will look back on this this (Warren) decision with regret.
 
Perhaps. Then again, for every "inevitable social change" that occured, quite a few didn't. E.g., the world was "inevitably" moving, first towards fascism, then towards communism, as the "decadent democracies" were in "unstoppable decline". The Times didn't do as much a-changin' as Bob Dylan would have you believe.
 
Duly noted, and I agree that Obama won't suddenly turn into a fundie, or a Muslim, or a latte sipping socialist, etc. on January 20.
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Well, he can always turn into a bat and fly away...
 
Skeptic said:
They're a special interest group. Like all special interest groups, they want their demands met OR ELSE, claiming that anything else but agreeing with them is proof one is an evil racist sexist homophobe. Such a Manichean world view -- everybody who disagrees with our demands is evil -- is very typical of such groups.

But the simple truth is that there is no such thing as the "right" to marry someone of the same sex, any more than there's a "right" to polygamy or to incest. It is up to society in general to determine what unions it will recognize as official marriages and which will not. Most Americans -- correctly, in my view -- consider the idea that homosexuals have a right to single-sex marriage to be about as reasonable as St. Constantine's view that homosexuals are the cause of earthquakes.

The LBGT community disagrees, but being really angry and shouting "homophobe!" hardly means one is correct, it just means one is frustrated at society for not getting something one wants. But not getting what one wants hardly means one's rights are being violated.

So Obama, in his opposition to gay marriage, is following the will of most Ameircans, and not that of the LGBT special interest group.
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what do you believe is the reasoning behind the view of this large number of americans.....what is the reasoning behind your position?
I can think of one reason....a supernatural being thinks it is not cool.....what other reasons may there be? What other reasons (if any) is your position based on?
 
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