Now, let's talk evidence for God.

[articulett]

What are Thetans? I mean I know Scientologists believe in them-- but, yrreg, how do you define the Thetans that you don't believe in? How are they different from the god you believe in? What are hobgoblins? demons? Sprites? Reincarnated entities? Angels? Which of these things do you believe in and how are they defined differently than the things you don't?

Why do you expect people to answer your loaded questions if you don't answer our similar questions? I think if you answered the questions you asked of you (or tried), you'd surely understand our answers much better than if we were to try and get through to you.

Answer Tumblehome's question, for example. Why wouldn't your answer be the same as ours? The term "god" is meaningless unless someone is telling us whatever the heck it is they mean by it. So let's hear your answers if you really are interested in hearing ours. (Or is this just one of those exercises where a believer says silly things in an attempt to win points in some crazy argument in his head?)

 

[articulett]

Whoah - what the **** was that I just read?

???
I don't know either... it was insane.

I think the point may be rattling around in his head, but I missed it. I guess he thinks he's a guru of some sort?

(But at least there was a kernel of sanity from Loss Leader.)

 

[Ausmerican]

For background of the present thread please go to here.


Yrreg

Wow. You got pwned big time there huh?

What is god?
Dog spelled backwards.

 

[RandFan]

What is God?

• the supernatural being conceived as the perfect and omnipotent and omniscient originator and ruler of the universe; the object of worship in ...
• deity: any supernatural being worshipped as controlling some part of the world or some aspect of life or who is the personification of a force
• a man of such superior qualities that he seems like a deity to other people; "he was a god among men"
• idol: a material effigy that is worshipped; "thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image"; "money was his god"

Which one? There are many gods.

Isis, Nut, Ra, Osiris, Zeus, Apollo, Gaia, Poseidon, Cupid, Janus, Terra, Bacchus, Hercules, Luna, Nemesis, Mercury, Venus, Mars, Jupiter, Saturn, Uranus, Neptune, Pluto, Thor, Odin, Brahma, Vishnu, Shiva, Ganesh, Kali, Krishna, Baal, Satan, Yahweh, Allah, God.

Hey, I have an idea, why don't you tell us what god you believe in and we can discuss that? How is it I'm supposed to define what I don't believe exists?

 

[Malerin]

Allow me to put a twist on the question:

If you believe in god(s), why don't you believe in unicorns, leprechauns, or faeries?

I don't feel a spiritual connection to unicorns, leprechauns, or faeries.

If you believe in the God of Christianity, Islam, or Judaism, why don't you believe in Thor, Zeus, or Marduk?

The billions of people who believe in the God of Christianity, Islam, or Judaism often claim to feel God's presence (whatever their faith) in their lives. They probably don't feel the same about Thor, Zeus, or Marduk.

Since I believe in none of the above, I find my own thinking on these matters to be logically consistent.

Do you believe you're not dreaming?

Okay, religious believers... your turn.

Not so fast; what beliefs about reality DO you have? Do other people exist? Do objects exist indepedent of you? I think you'll find you have a lot of beliefs about reality that are just as faith-based as any belief in God.

 

[Pardalis]

What is God?​

A non sequitur.

 

[Dunstan]

Which one? There are many gods.

Isis, Nut, Ra, Osiris, Zeus, Apollo, Gaia, Poseidon, Cupid, Janus, Terra, Bacchus, Hercules, Luna, Nemesis, Mercury, Venus, Mars, Jupiter, Saturn, Uranus, Neptune, Pluto, Thor, Odin, Brahma, Vishnu, Shiva, Ganesh, Kali, Krishna, Baal, Satan, Yahweh, Allah, God.

Oh, don't mention Odin. Yrreg gets very angry when you do. Apparently he's a very combative anOdinist.

 

[Taffer]

Still waiting for a response there, Yrreg.

 

[RandFan]

I don't feel a spiritual connection to unicorns, leprechauns, or faeries.

What about those who do? Oh, there are those who do.

The billions of people who believe in the God of Christianity, Islam, or Judaism often claim to feel God's presence (whatever their faith) in their lives. They probably don't feel the same about Thor, Zeus, or Marduk.

So what? Some people feel that they are god. What's that supposed to prove. You are appealing to feelings. That's a fallacy.

Do you believe you're not dreaming?

Yes but I can't prove it. I don't really care. There is continuity in the state that I believe is awake that isn't when I'm not. Because there is continuity and because reality behaves in a consistent manner I can live my life as if it is real.

It's a waste of my time to try and live my life as if it is not real. To try and do so would cause me to suffer a number of consequences. I don't like working but if I don't I'll be homeless and go hungry. Reality has a way of intruding into my daydream and I'm forced to accept it even if I should want to pretend that it isn't real.

Not so fast; what beliefs about reality DO you have?

• That what ever it is that I see as reality is consistent.
• That I can't live as though I have a choice about what is and isn't real.
• That I must conform to reality including going to the bathroom, sleeping and eating.

Do other people exist?

I don't know. But there is something that I do know.


I DO KNOW that,

• If I punch the police officer in the face I will suffer consequences that I won't like whether it is real or not.
• If I don't pay my landlord he will evict me from my home whether he is real or not.
• If I don't go to work I will get fired whether my boss is real or not.
• If I don't pay the grocer money she will not give me food whether she is real or not.

I don't give a **** whether these people are real or not. I can't say the same about god. It's not important one way or the other. I choose to accept reality because I have no choice.

Do objects exist independent of you?

Who gives a ****? I don't. Do you? Try and live your life as if your feet don't touch the floor or if the door is not real. Go ahead and try to respond to this post without using the keyboard. It might not be there but you still have to use it.

I think you'll find you have a lot of beliefs about reality that are just as faith-based as any belief in God.

BS.


FACTS:

• I can act as if god does or does not exist.
• I can NOT act as if reality does not exist.

Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away. God is a different matter.

 

[articulett]

How do you know which invisible entity is giving you that warm spiritual connection, Malerin?

Do you think Allah was giving the hijackers a warm spiritual connection? They sure seemed a lot more eager to meet their invisible friend than their passengers were.

Which invisible entity is responsible for Tom Cruise's spiritual zeal and stunning success?

Do you think you and yrreg and plumjam and Doc are all experience the same "spiritual connection" from the same source? How is it you came to know about this invisible, immeasurable entity that give you these feelings of knowingness? If you were never taught about him or were taught a different brand of faith that didn't have a monotheistic god, do you think you'd still "believe in god" (however you are defining the term_?

 

[slingblade]

yrreg, were you bad and now believe that your god makes you come here and get trounced for penance?

No, he gets trounced for peanuts. None of us are getting paid, though occasionally, there are salty snacks.

 

[articulett]

No, he gets trounced for peanuts. None of us are getting paid, though occasionally, there are salty snacks.

Yes, but not too salty-- there is that membership agreement.

 

[articulett]

Bravo, Randfan.

I believe that there is an objective reality that doesn't care one wit whether I or anyone "believes in" it or not. The earth is round even though eons of people believed otherwise. DNA coursed through our veins long before we ever had a clue about it. Airplanes fly whether you believe they will or not. Objective reality doesn't care what people "believe". It doesn't need to be "believe in" to be a fact.

But gods-- they are indistinguishable from invisible friends and all the other invisible crazy entities humans have been known to "believe in". I don't see evidence that they could be more than that-- not a part of any "objective reality" like what I mentioned above. All gods are exactly like all the crazy things religionists don't believe in to me. All religions are Scientology to me. It's all crazy and based on woo--all products of men's minds.

 

[arthwollipot]

Oh, articulett. Please don't make me start in on the "most people believed the world was flat" fallacy again.

 

[articulett]

Oh, articulett. Please don't make me start in on the "most people believed the world was flat" fallacy again.

I didn't say that. I think it's safe to presume most people thought the world was the way it appeared to us as kids... and still does. It's hard to imagine that you aren't upside down over on your opposite side of the earth. And it's only the more educated people who understood that it was not as it appeared... that may be true today as well. It doesn't occur to most people that we live on a sphere. And yet no matter what people thought of it-- it was always the orb we know it to be today. Knowing the facts allows us to learn more details. But you never get a clue when you assume you already know the facts. I'm sure it didn't occur to cave people that they were living on a sphere.

 

[articulett]

And isn't that the case with most gods? People are taught about them by people they trust... it doesn't occur to them that they might be wrong.

 

[paximperium]

Do you believe you're not dreaming?

Not so fast; what beliefs about reality DO you have? Do other people exist? Do objects exist indepedent of you? I think you'll find you have a lot of beliefs about reality that are just as faith-based as any belief in God.

In Summary: To make an unrealistic belief in god real, you argue that there is no absolute reality to compare your belief to therefore an unrealistic belief is as justified as a reality based belief.

It is a great cop-out and intellectually bankrupt position.

Same tactic used by Creationists and just about all other woo-mongerers. Unable to support your own claim, you attempt to poke holes in an opposing viewpoints instead of supporting your own. Malerin just takes it to an extreme level.

 

[HghrSymmetry]

Great responses.
Tumblehome...well said. Your hammer has squarely hit the nail on the head.

yregg, by these responses, do you now understand why your question is meaningless?

Ok, well try a littler harder and you may.

The moment you utter a nonsensical/meaningless three letter vocalization, your question quickly does a face plant. Whether a person is a theist or atheist is irrelevant.

 

[Lonewulf]

Now, let's talk evidence for God.

Let's not and say we did.

 

[six7s]

OpenTheism.woo, commonly known simply as OpenWoo, is a free cross-platform gullibilty application suite available for a number of different cultures. It supports the ID10T standard Open BrainSyndrome (O BS) for myth interchange as its default setting, as well as Neanderthal gullibilty formats among others. As of November 2008[update], OpenWoo supports over 42 gazillion cults.

OpenTheism.woo was originally derived from SkyWoo, a gullibilty suite developed by SkyDivision and acquired by Woo MacroSystems in the deep mists of time. The source code of the suite was released in a hurry with the aim of reducing the dominant market share of NeanderthalGullibilty by providing a free, open and high-quantity alternative; later versions of SkyGullibilty are based upon OpenTheism.woo with additional proprietary components.

The project and software are informally referred to as OpenWoo, but this term is a trademark held by another party, requiring the project to adopt OpenTheism.woo as its formal name.

Woo subsidizes the development of OpenTheism.woo in order to use it as a base for its commercial proprietary SkyGullibilty application software. Releases of SkyGullibilty since version 42.0 have been based on the OpenTheism.woo source code, with some additional marketing components, including the following:

• Additional bundled myths (especially East Asian language myths ).
• Adabas D myth base.
• Additional sect templates.
• Crap art.