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Evidence for why we know the New Testament writers told the truth.

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I am sure that everyone recognizes that there were a lot of reports of people returning from the dead, from people turning into gods, the stars falling and beasts rising from the ground in Ancient times, but there is no one now who has any evidence at all that such events actually occurred. It would mean the end of science if we returned to such a way of thinking! The end of science would end our technology and that, in turn, would bring on the worst of the Malthusian triad of war, famine and disease---war in a world loaded with atomic weapons. Does that matter to arthwollipot?
 
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A true myth

The Jesus story grew. As most stories of the miraculous do. The earliest gospel Mark (originally in the earliest manuscripts we have) ends with an empty cave. Body gone but no appearances of Jesus. Then each new account of his death added more. Jesus appears and then appears to more and more and "in the flesh" etc. This wasn't unusual or dishonest, "untrue". It's the nature of myth. Not "untruth", myth, capturing larger truth.

Our problem is we live in a time of cameras and "objective truth" and measurable reality et al, when myth means lie. Which leaves dullards who want to treat myth like a six o'clock news story and the sadly unpoetic who just want "the facts, the plain facts". You'll never get such an account from such a myth-centric time.
 
paximperium said:
Hey, DOC still waiting for your so-called evidence instead of your claims of things without evidence.
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Would it be possible for me to post 200+ times in an evidence thread that has around 90 other posters without giving any evidence -- now that would be a miracle. The evidence has been under our noses all along. Guys like Geisler and Turek in their book cited in post #1 just put the pieces together and show us the evidence that has been there all along. My belief is that posts like yours are either 1) trollish 2) deliberate attempts at confusing those who haven't read the whole thread 3) someone just blind to the facts or 4) the post of someone who is totally biased against anything that gives even the hint of support to the fact that Jesus did indeed rise from the dead just as Barack Obama and 2 billion others believe.
 
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gentleexit said:
The Jesus story grew. As most stories of the miraculous do. The earliest gospel Mark (originally in the earliest manuscripts we have) ends with an empty cave. Body gone but no appearances of Jesus. Then each new account of his death added more. Jesus appears and then appears to more and more and "in the flesh" etc. This wasn't unusual or dishonest, "untrue". It's the nature of myth. Not "untruth", myth, capturing larger truth.
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My King James version of the Bible has Jesus appearing to Mary Magdalene, then 2 disciples, then the eleven {apostles} in the Gospel of Mark. What version of the Bible are you reading?
 
ZOOTERKIN, I cannot find the source of the statement to show you in all the hundreds of posts. I removed it from my post because I am not so sure I attributed it to the right person.
 
DOC said:
Would it be possible for me to post 200+ times in an evidence thread that has around 90 other posters without giving any evidence -- now that would be a miracle.
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Hallelujah. A miracle with my very own eyes. I believe.

The evidence has been under our noses all along. Guys like Geisler and Turek in their book cited in post #1 just put the pieces together and show us the evidence that has been there all along.
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Doc this is an evidence thread. In it there is lots of posts explaining why Geisler and Turek have not provided evidence.

My belief is that posts like yours are either 1) trollish 2) deliberate attempts at confusing those who haven't read the whole thread 3) someone just blind to the facts or 4)the post of someone who is totally biased against anything that gives even the hint of support to the fact that Jesus did indeed rise from the dead just as Barack Obama and 2 billion others believe.
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Doc, when you set a muiti-choice question the trick is to make sure one of the options is right.
 
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Sefarst said:
What about the Apostle Paul on the road to Damascus? He never met Jesus while he was alive and even persecuted Christians until God supposedly appeared to him and gave him proof. He then became an apostle.

Again, why do these other people get special treatment and evidence that the rest of us don't? Paul was given evidence despite living in Jesus' time period and he could have personally interviewed people who said they had known Jesus and witnessed what he did. Paul could have gone to the places Jesus visited and double checked the authenticity of what he was being told by the disciples. Despite all this, Jesus still appeared to him and gave him evidence.

And now here I am, expected to believe some third hand accounts passed down from 2,000 years ago. Why doesn't Jesus love me enough to give me a personal appearance?
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Paul was called of God for a specific purpose. That's why God allowed Paul to do miracles just like He did some of the other apostles (Acts 19:11). Paul gives us some evidence of his miracles done when he writes of the time he did the miracles when with the Corinthians
(2 Cor. 12:12 NLT):

"When I was with you, I certainly gave you every proof that I am truly an apostle, sent to you by God himself. For I patiently did many signs and wonders and miracles among you."

It wouldn't make sense for Paul to write in a letter to the Corinthians about the time he did miracles amongst them because they would certainly know if this was true or not...

And in response to your other point, it is much more important for you to experience Christ in your heart than for you to physically see Him.

(Luke 17: 20,21) words of Christ

"The kingdom of God does not come with observation;
nor will they say, 'See here!' or 'See there!' For indeed, the kingdom of God is within you."
 
DOC said:
Paul was called of God for a specific purpose. That's why God allowed Paul to do miracles just like He did some of the other apostles (Acts 19:11). Paul gives us some evidence of his miracles done when he writes of the time he did the miracles when with the Corinthians
(2 Cor. 12:12 NLT):

"When I was with you, I certainly gave you every proof that I am truly an apostle, sent to you by God himself. For I patiently did many signs and wonders and miracles among you."

It wouldn't make sense for Paul to write in a letter to the Corinthians about the time he did miracles amongst them because they would certainly know if this was true or not...

And in response to your other point, it is much more important for you to experience Christ in your heart than for you to physically see Him.

(Luke 17: 20,21) words of Christ

"The kingdom of God does not come with observation;
nor will they say, 'See here!' or 'See there!' For indeed, the kingdom of God is within you."
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Remind me, what evidence supports Paul's miracles.
 
DOC said:
Paul was called of God for a specific purpose. That's why God allowed Paul to do miracles just like He did some of the other apostles (Acts 19:11). Paul gives us some evidence of his miracles done when he writes of the time he did the miracles when with the Corinthians
(2 Cor. 12:12 NLT):

"When I was with you, I certainly gave you every proof that I am truly an apostle, sent to you by God himself. For I patiently did many signs and wonders and miracles among you."

It wouldn't make sense for Paul to write in a letter to the Corinthians about the time he did miracles amongst them because they would certainly know if this was true or not...

And in response to your other point, it is much more important for you to experience Christ in your heart than for you to physically see Him.

(Luke 17: 20,21) words of Christ

"The kingdom of God does not come with observation;
nor will they say, 'See here!' or 'See there!' For indeed, the kingdom of God is within you."
Click to expand...



Ah, so it's going to be special pleading this time.

DOC, could you level with us, please? Is this a game to see how long you can keep a thread going?
 
DOC said:
And if he never died there would be the problem of Christ appearing suddenly in the locked room implying He went right through the walls, and also his bodily ascension into heaven.
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Not my problem. You asked for what kind of evidence would be required to prove that the resurrection occured. I gave you examples of the kind of evidence required. The fact that some of the kinds of evidence that would prove the ressurection true would also invalidate other magical stories doesn't matter.
 
DOC said:
Would it be possible for me to post 200+ times in an evidence thread that has around 90 other posters without giving any evidence -- now that would be a miracle. The evidence has been under our noses all along. Guys like Geisler and Turek in their book cited in post #1 just put the pieces together and show us the evidence that has been there all along. My belief is that posts like yours are either 1) trollish 2) deliberate attempts at confusing those who haven't read the whole thread 3) someone just blind to the facts or 4) the post of someone who is totally biased against anything that gives even the hint of support to the fact that Jesus did indeed rise from the dead just as Barack Obama and 2 billion others believe.
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Yes it is completely possible for you to post 200+ completely factually and evidence free vacuous and purposefully dishonest posts. Therefore you are a liar.

I and many others have already given our criteria for this evidence and you have continued to purposefully do the chicken dance and refusing to provide them and doing this whining game AFTER YOU demanded our criteria for evidence. Your dodge and chickening out of YOUR own challenge is open for all to see. Therefore you are a liar.

You being able to post 200+ useless posts says a lot of about you and has nothing to do with "miracles". At this point, it would be a miracle if you actually did post some evidence.

WE ARE STILL WAITING for this evidence.
 
Ichneumonwasp said:
Ah, so it's going to be special pleading this time.
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Of course it is. DOC is simply applying the exact poor logical skills that Geisler uses in his book. Perhaps it does convince some people, but luckily I can reason and think for myself.

I require a bit more than the circular logic of
christian martyrs prove christianity true, but non-christian martyrs don't prove other religions true because christianity is true due to other reasons.
 
DOC said:
Would it be possible for me to post 200+ times in an evidence thread that has around 90 other posters without giving any evidence -- now that would be a miracle.
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No. That would be trolling and/or lying for your messiah

DOC said:
The evidence has been under our noses all along. Guys like Geisler and Turek in their book cited in post #1 just put the pieces together and show us the evidence that has been there all along.
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No. They cobble together hearsay and speculation in order to jump to a conclusion that fits a particular delusion

DOC said:
My belief is that posts like yours are either 1) trollish 2) deliberate attempts at confusing those who haven't read the whole thread 3) someone just blind to the facts or 4) the post of someone who is totally biased against anything that gives even the hint of support to the fact that Jesus did indeed rise from the dead just as Barack Obama and 2 billion others believe.
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You're funny... in a peculiar sort of way...

Anyhoo... enough of what you believe... give us - as promised in the OP - some evidence "for why we know the New Testament writers told the truth"
 
Lothian said:
Remind me, what evidence supports Paul's miracles.
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The letter where it would be easy for the Corinthians to verify if he was lying. You don't put your entire life's work and your credibility on the line for something that would be so easy to verify if he was lying. Reread the post and the verse in my post.
 
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