Have you ever been sexually assaulted?

[Zelenius]

Here is someone that claims it has happened to him

ETA:
Here is his actual account of the incident

Thank you for posting that. I salute James for coming out like this. Anyone who thinks men can't be raped by women should go argue with James Landrith about his experience. I'm a man and I have trouble relating to what he went through, but he sounds real and I can feel his pain. The article you posted links with so many more interesting essays and discussions about male rape.

http://www.womanist-musings.com/2008/07/male-rape.html

 

[Lonewulf]

Thank you for posting that. I salute James for coming out like this. Anyone who thinks men can't be raped by women should go argue with James Landrith about his experience. I'm a man and I have trouble relating to what he went through, but he sounds real and I can feel his pain. The article you posted links with so many more interesting essays and discussions about male rape.

http://www.womanist-musings.com/2008/07/male-rape.html

In before Skeptigirl will call the story "hard to believe", not accept it in any way as evidence, and look no further simply because of Argument from Incredulity.

 

[PhantomWolf]

I salute him too. I found the original article in which his story is used under the name Mike, before he came out fully and disclosed who he was. Many of the responces were quite disturbing from things such as "It wasn't rape because he was male" and "It wasn't rape because there was no physical force or threat of injury" to "What's he complaining about he got a free lay" and "Well he got what he deserved by putting himself in that position." Some even said "It was 17 years ago, be a man and get over it."

With this sort of attitude out there is it at all surprising that few men report such crimes?

 

[Lonewulf]

Many of the responces were quite disturbing from things such as "It wasn't rape because he was male"

Androgyny is just as much a crime as misogyny. And I don't care what the sex of the person was who said that, it's still androgyny.

and "It wasn't rape because there was no physical force or threat of injury"

And because he didn't scream, I guess?

If I used emotional or social or economic blackmail against a female employee, you bet this argument wouldn't be used; or any who did would be soundly beaten down.

to "What's he complaining about he got a free lay"

Which seems to stem from the myth, passed on by men and women alike, that men think about nothing but sex, and don't seem to care about who they get a "free lay" with. There's nothing about choice, preference, or even, quite frankly, freedom.

The idea that men are ruled by their penises is one that I doubt any honest person believes. Or else, if they do, then I doubt they have any kind of meaningful relationship with any kind of man, whether plutonic or intimate. (I know one girl at the school I go to who honestly believes that men and women cannot have a deep, non-sexual relationship; that eventually it MUST become sexual)

and "Well he got what he deserved by putting himself in that position."

Yeah, THIS argument goes over well when used on a female rape claim.

Some even said "It was 17 years ago, be a man and get over it."

Yeah, THIS argument goes over well when used to turn away a female rape claim.

With this sort of attitude out there is it at all surprising that few men report such crimes?

Exactly.

 

[gtc]

The idea that men are ruled by their penises is one that I doubt any honest person believes. Or else, if they do, then I doubt they have any kind of meaningful relationship with any kind of man, whether plutonic or intimate. (I know one girl at the school I go to who honestly believes that men and women cannot have a deep, non-sexual relationship; that eventually it MUST become sexual)

It sounds like she has an overinflated sense of her own sexual attractiveness.

 

[Lonewulf]

It sounds like she has an overinflated sense of her own sexual attractiveness.

If anything, she believed that of ALL women and ALL men. The subject came up with the German concept for "Freund" (friend); Americans are much faster in calling one another a friend, whereas in Germany, it takes a while to get to the point of "friend"; most of your "friends" are, in german terms, good acquaintances (gute Bekannte).

The girl in question is from the Ivory Coast, and, as I remember it, she expressed her belief that it was impossible for a man and a woman to become "Best Friends" without there being something sexual involved. It didn't help that the one person who contradicted her with a personal anecdote, had experimented with a relationship with the woman he was best friends with.

But yeah, if anything, she has an overinflated sense of the collective sexual attractiveness of all women.

(To be fair, if it weren't for certain parts of her personality and how religious she tended to be, I'd find her attractive myself; I tend to like muscle in a woman, and whoo-wee...)

 

[gumboot]

I posted James Landrith's story quite a few pages ago. Skeptigirl claims it is fake. Ironic, given that she started this threat to try prove (how I don't know) that it's very rare for people to make false rape allegations. The levels of hypocrisy just keep mounting up.

 

[Slayhamlet]

Androgyny is just as much a crime as misogyny. And I don't care what the sex of the person was who said that, it's still androgyny.

You mean misandry. Androgyny is something else altogether.

I agree with everything you say, otherwise. I find Skeptigirl's responses in this thread very bizarre. It's as if recognizing that men are very rarely raped by women automatically admits an equivalence in the ratio of male to female perpetrators. Is anyone arguing that? And is she seriously still maintaining that the penis of a post-pubescent male cannot be stimulated to erection against his will by a potential rapist?

 

[JoeyDonuts]

Androgyny is a crime. Especially if she/he looked normal when you were chatting them up in the pub and then turned out to be a Barbie/Ken doll once the clothes come off.

 

[Lonewulf]

You mean misandry. Androgyny is something else altogether.

Er, uh... no I didn't. I meant... uh... that is, it goes both ways, so... uh...







Oops?

I agree with everything you say, otherwise. I find Skeptigirl's responses in this thread very bizarre. It's as if recognizing that men are very rarely raped by women automatically admits an equivalence in the ratio of male to female perpetrators. Is anyone arguing that?

Yes, her arguments have seemed odd in that regard (I still find her "My my but you boys..." comment very illuminating).

This whole argument somewhat originally spawned from the thread discussing whether or not men are naturally violent. It was my position that it was hard to say that it's "hard-wired" into us to be violent, and that I think society plays a larger role; she disagrees, and thinks that evolution plays a much larger role; many have also made the argument that testosterone further plays a larger role, and evidenced that a sudden increase in testosterone can dramatically change someone's behavior. Anyways, off topic, but giving an idea of where some of this comes from... in a way, that's equating female "natural" violence potential with male "natural" violence potential, and I think she's equating a similar thing here -- perhaps talking "rape potential". I don't know.

I think she's also confusing possibility with actual occurrence.

And is she seriously still maintaining that the penis of a post-pubescent male cannot be stimulated to erection against his will by a potential rapist?

It does appear that way, yes.

 

[osmosis]

Other than child molesting which is being counted as rape/assault in this thread, could someone please tell me how an adult woman rapes an adult man? And how common could that possibly be compared to the other way around?

I'm not claiming that it was horrible or that I'm traumatized, mostly it was embarrassing and inconvenient, but I was actually sexually assaulted by a woman.

It was my ex. If I recall correctly, she found out (read: I stupidly admitted) that I was going to have coffee with another woman. She's very athletic and had a certain physical advantage at the time (she was sitting on me) and in a fit of jealousy, she held me down and proceeded to plant several obvious hickeys on my neck. I tried to stop her, but was literally physically incapable of defending myself.

That was weird. I was angry. They never did find her body. Just kidding.

 

[ysabella]

I put in a vote. I'm female, and yes I was assaulted, by a guy who walked into the small custom picture-framing shop I was staffing solo for the first time ever. I successfully repelled the attack by aiming my technically-illegal pepper spray at him, although I didn't actually hose him with it. I still had some difficult emotional aftermath to deal with, even though I apparently handled it just right and prevailed. That was just a terrible experience, and I can only imagine the cruel suffering and trauma of people who don't successfully repel that kind of attack.
The saddest thing was, when I told people the story of what happened, their stories came out. To protect anonymity, I'll put it this way: one person molested as a child by a grandparent, one person molested as a child by a neighbor, one person fondled as a child by their dentist, one person really unpleasantly date-raped. Of these people, one is a longtime school friend (female), one an ex-boyfriend, one is my mother, one is my best friend (female).
I don't know how true the statistics are. So much goes unreported. At the time my attack happened, more than 15 years ago, my mom cried when I told her about it and told me what had happened to her. She had heard that 1 out of 3 women suffer some kind of sexual assault, and she was hoping that since she went through it, her two daughters would be spared. But then she cheered up and said I was her hero, since I got the guy to give up and leave. I also drew a picture of him for the police while I was waiting for them (I dialed 911 as he was leaving the store), and they were really chuffed by that, and my mom was really proud of that.

Is there really any doubt, in this day and age, that men can be sexually assaulted and raped? I didn't think there was. And yes, of course it can be done by a woman.
And cripes, it's well documented that some rape victims go through arousal and even orgasm, without actually enjoying any of it. And erections, well, for a normal healthy male, erections fire up all the time without any mental arousal. Sitting on the right couch that puts pressure on a certain spot, or riding the bus and sitting over the vibrating diesel engine, can do it easily (both are specific examples from my husband, who said they were okay to post here). And it doesn't mean they want to get up and shag someone, it's a purely physical response. I'm female, but between life drawing classes (where you have guys posing for you naked for hours at a time while you stare at them intently and draw them) and general observation of Penises I Have Known, these are my observations. I never saw full-on wood on the life drawing models, mind you, just varying degrees of tumescence.
Erections do wax and wane while men are asleep (hence the stamp test and its ilk).
I suppose it's possible that some of the cases where men wake up from sleep to find an assault happening, the perpetrator saw the "nighttime tumescence" and misinterpreted it (perhaps willfully). In any case, I can tell you from personal experience that you can certainly elicit an erection from a sleeping male and he doesn't wake up right away (this was welcome attention, not an assault, I assure you - even though it's happened since, he still fondly remembers "that morning in the bed-and-breakfast in Leuven"). If he had woken up to find I was down at breakfast and some strange person was messing with his penis while he slept, that would have been sexual assault right there (well, I don't know Belgian law, but probably).
Even if the erection doesn't stay around very long, what difference does that make? It's already a sexual assault. Say it's a woman perpetrator and a sleeping, non-consenting male with an erection - if she manages penetration using his penis even for a moment, surely that is full-on rape, no matter how long it goes on or whether or not anybody had an orgasm. Incidentally, a male rapist doesn't always orgasm. After all, that's not really what rape is about.

Thanks to everyone who shared their stories. It's too bad this thread is such a trainwreck.

 

[osmosis]

So you all can continue with your personal attacks and straw men battles against what you imagine I have said. I'll stick with my not PC but very skeptical position until someone posts some actual evidence there are women out there forcing adult sober awake men to have erections then raping them. And when someone posts actual evidence this occurs, I'll have no issue then that it does occur. Because all I have said is I had an open mind until no evidence could be found.

Wait, I'm confused. Have we shifted the goalposts here? If I can show that "women [are] out there forcing adult sober awake men to have erections then raping them", I will have proven what?

Is this still a sexual assault thread? Is there a double standard in place? Can I now assume that a man must force a woman to get WET before he sticks something unwelcome inside her body, or else it's not sexual assault?

 

[Cobalt]

I nearly posted the full story of what happened to me, and after reading through the following pages, I'm really glad I didn't.

 

[Safe-Keeper]

pepper spray

Now we're talking. And yes, those little things are amazing. The mere threat of getting some of that stuff in your eyes is enough to make most people stand down, and if they don't, they're going down anyhow.

Plan to buy a defense spray myself (one of those milder things that's still more than strong enough to make you think about nothing else than getting water and also paints your face a very attractive hue of blue), just never get around to it. I just hope I won't need it until I have bought it, if you know what I mean.

Glad to hear you pulled through. You sound like one of those people who can keep their head clear when they need to. All the best to you.

 

[Lonewulf]

I put in a vote. I'm female, and yes I was assaulted, by a guy who walked into the small custom picture-framing shop I was staffing solo for the first time ever. I successfully repelled the attack by aiming my technically-illegal pepper spray at him, although I didn't actually hose him with it. I still had some difficult emotional aftermath to deal with, even though I apparently handled it just right and prevailed. That was just a terrible experience, and I can only imagine the cruel suffering and trauma of people who don't successfully repel that kind of attack.
The saddest thing was, when I told people the story of what happened, their stories came out. To protect anonymity, I'll put it this way: one person molested as a child by a grandparent, one person molested as a child by a neighbor, one person fondled as a child by their dentist, one person really unpleasantly date-raped. Of these people, one is a longtime school friend (female), one an ex-boyfriend, one is my mother, one is my best friend (female).
I don't know how true the statistics are. So much goes unreported. At the time my attack happened, more than 15 years ago, my mom cried when I told her about it and told me what had happened to her. She had heard that 1 out of 3 women suffer some kind of sexual assault, and she was hoping that since she went through it, her two daughters would be spared. But then she cheered up and said I was her hero, since I got the guy to give up and leave. I also drew a picture of him for the police while I was waiting for them (I dialed 911 as he was leaving the store), and they were really chuffed by that, and my mom was really proud of that.

Is there really any doubt, in this day and age, that men can be sexually assaulted and raped? I didn't think there was. And yes, of course it can be done by a woman.
And cripes, it's well documented that some rape victims go through arousal and even orgasm, without actually enjoying any of it. And erections, well, for a normal healthy male, erections fire up all the time without any mental arousal. Sitting on the right couch that puts pressure on a certain spot, or riding the bus and sitting over the vibrating diesel engine, can do it easily (both are specific examples from my husband, who said they were okay to post here). And it doesn't mean they want to get up and shag someone, it's a purely physical response. I'm female, but between life drawing classes (where you have guys posing for you naked for hours at a time while you stare at them intently and draw them) and general observation of Penises I Have Known, these are my observations. I never saw full-on wood on the life drawing models, mind you, just varying degrees of tumescence.
Erections do wax and wane while men are asleep (hence the stamp test and its ilk).
I suppose it's possible that some of the cases where men wake up from sleep to find an assault happening, the perpetrator saw the "nighttime tumescence" and misinterpreted it (perhaps willfully). In any case, I can tell you from personal experience that you can certainly elicit an erection from a sleeping male and he doesn't wake up right away (this was welcome attention, not an assault, I assure you - even though it's happened since, he still fondly remembers "that morning in the bed-and-breakfast in Leuven"). If he had woken up to find I was down at breakfast and some strange person was messing with his penis while he slept, that would have been sexual assault right there (well, I don't know Belgian law, but probably).
Even if the erection doesn't stay around very long, what difference does that make? It's already a sexual assault. Say it's a woman perpetrator and a sleeping, non-consenting male with an erection - if she manages penetration using his penis even for a moment, surely that is full-on rape, no matter how long it goes on or whether or not anybody had an orgasm. Incidentally, a male rapist doesn't always orgasm. After all, that's not really what rape is about.

Thanks to everyone who shared their stories. It's too bad this thread is such a trainwreck.

Thank you for sharing your own experience, Ysabella. I am really glad that you managed to fight off your attacker.

One of the first steps to any fight, including in fighting against rape, is understanding; those like you aid in understanding, so they aid in the fight of cases like this.

A daughter hero to her mother; I can't think of much else to be proud about.

When I hear "technically-illegal", though, I have to wince. What made the pepper spray illegal? The facility's own rules and regulations, the law?

I nearly posted the full story of what happened to me, and after reading through the following pages, I'm really glad I didn't.

It's your decision, and I have to say that I'm really disappointed that it's gotten to the point where someone would feel uncomfortable enough in this thread to remain silent. :/

I repeat what I said about understanding... but I won't work hard to try to convince you. Like I said, it's (quite obviously) your choice.

I just want to apologize if I helped made you feel uncomfortable...

 

[Rolfe]

Um. My one experience, as a teenager, of having a man in a dirty raincoat try to manoeuvre his hand up my skirt in a darkened cinema obviously doesn't count.

All I did (after a period of sitting motionless wondering what to do) was stand up, tuck my skirt firmly around my legs, and sit down again. At that point he desisted. I passionately wish now that I'd stood up and yelled "rape". Then maybe he wouldn't have tried that on anybody else.

Rolfe.

 

[Professor Yaffle]

I nearly posted the full story of what happened to me, and after reading through the following pages, I'm really glad I didn't.

I'm glad you didn't.

I just want to say that I am shocked and disgusted by the way Skeptigirl has behaved on this thread. I posted my experience in good faith (and am now really glad I didn't go into detail), hoping to have some sort of productive discussion about sexual assault and how common it is. Instead, by ignoring the evidence that has been posted several times (and she really can't claim to just have missed it by now, after I posted some relevant extracts and offered to e-mail it to her) - she has just spat on the bravery people have shown.

I think Skeptigirl has disrespected all those people who were brave enough to post about their experiences on this thread and it has really upset me personally. I used to rate people like Claus badly, but at least he never did his selective hearing and logic twisting with an issue as personal and sensitive as this.

For that reason, Skeptigirl will be the only person on my ignore list. Could someone PM me if she ever decides to make an apology to everyone here, and I might think about taking her off again.

 

[Cobalt]

It's your decision, and I have to say that I'm really disappointed that it's gotten to the point where someone would feel uncomfortable enough in this thread to remain silent. :/

I repeat what I said about understanding... but I won't work hard to try to convince you. Like I said, it's (quite obviously) your choice.

I just want to apologize if I helped made you feel uncomfortable...

I assure you, it wasn't you at all.

There's a general feeling I get that some folks would be supportive while others would tell me to shrug it off or plain wouldn't care. And the support would be nice, but something about the uninterested or uncaring seems much worse.

The most I'd feel okay sharing is that it was a male on male situation, it wasn't a family member, and I feel abysmally stupid about it, especially since I'd entirely forgotten it until a few months ago.

 

[Lonewulf]

I don't think even Skeptigirl or Conspiraider would trivialize that, Cobalt. If they did, that would definitely be a new low.

You shouldn't feel stupid about it. Ever. No matter the circumstances, if you were raped, you were not at fault... period. No should mean no, period.