I'm all for gun control

[Yjacket]

Bear in mind I said we should heavily control access to guns.

What suggestions do you have that go beyond the requirement of the 1968 Gun Control Act?

We'll never stop guns from getting into the hands of criminals and lunatics

Too true, so why do so many of the laws that are proposed harass the legal owner and do nothing about the illegal possession of firearms?

but we may by intelligent enforcement limit the number of guns that do fall into the hands of that contingient.

I suggest that we add the word 'vigerous' to your sentence.

 

[RandFan]

Hmmm I wonder how JFK and RFK post in this thread if they were able to be summoned up from the grave?

A number of people who have been victims of crime have gone from gun control proponents to gun control opponents. Perhaps being a victim of a crime isn't the best basis for making decisions about gun control. Seems to me to be appealing to emotion.

 

[Gagglegnash]

Hi

Firearms have serial numbers. There is a reason.

The pneumatic-lift chair I'm currently sitting on has make, model, lot, and serial numbers. If there's a reason, then why?

 

[Lonewulf]

Hi

The pneumatic-lift chair I'm currently sitting on has make, model, lot, and serial numbers. If there's a reason, then why?

I always thought the one thing that was committed in most murder novels was filing off the serial numbers. *Shrugs*

I'm no expert.

 

[Crowlogic]

A number of people who have been victims of crime have gone from gun control proponents to gun control opponents. Perhaps being a victim of a crime isn't the best basis for making decisions about gun control. Seems to me to be appealing to emotion.

Well to put it another way how do you think a person who's gone through the windshield of a car during an accident feels about not wearing seatblets or airbags afterwards? While obviously we can't summon Jack and Bobby to this forum to dismiss the potential wisdom of someone that's been on the recieving end of a preventable/tragic and violent incident is shortsighted. The firearm/gun violence situation in this country has reached laughably tragic proportions. The big issue as I see it are hand guns and assult rifles. I'm all in favor of letting Uncle Bubba keep his coon huntin' 12 guage but what's he need that 45 for?

 

[RandFan]

Well to put it another way how do you think a person who's gone through the windshield of a car during an accident feels about not wearing seatblets or airbags afterwards? While obviously we can't summon Jack and Bobby to this forum to dismiss the potential wisdom of someone that's been on the recieving end of a preventable/tragic and violent incident is shortsighted. The firearm/gun violence situation in this country has reached laughably tragic proportions. The big issue as I see it are hand guns and assult rifles. I'm all in favor of letting Uncle Bubba keep his coon huntin' 12 guage but what's he need that 45 for?

I'm not sure how you could miss the point so completly. If you want to make that argument one could make a counter argument for people who have been the victims of crime who are now gun proponents. Appealing to emotion is a fallacy.

What does "laughably proportions" mean.

Did you know that homicide is down by every measure whether you look at macro or micro time frames. That's a fact.

A HISTORY OF VIOLENCE

 

[Lonewulf]

...Uh, why is a .45 handgun necessarily more deadly or dangerous than a 12 gauge?

And how are you defining assault rifles? Are you using the technical definition of the term, or your own term?

I can probably get a pretty decent hunting rifle; those things have lots of power, more power than you'll see any handgun, just based on the difference between rifle and pistol bullets.

In fact, the hunting rifle could probably rip right through a lower-grade ballistic vest that would stop a .45.

And what does he need a .45 for? Let's see... outside of range shooting, how about... I don't know... starts with a "d", rhymes with "Refence". I'll think of it.

 

[Gagglegnash]

Hi

...and I have two reasons I'd rather not have every firearm transfer reported and recorded.

Firstly, as I've said before, with the regularity with which the functionaries of the US (...trying to get out of the habit of saying, "America," just for you Canadian fellows) lose, misplace, and separately and collectively jackassulate with the sensitive information of the citizenry, a list of that nature would be a shopping list. I don't mean a shopping list for guns... I mean like, "ok - not on the list - we can hit that house any time, day or night, that we want without any problems as long as we move quickly to silence anyone within reach of a telephone." (...although real bad-guys probably don't worry about split infinitives.)

Secondly, if a government has a list of all gun owners, and something horrible happens and a majority of legislators shows up that feels the need to be seen to be doing SOMETHING... ANYTHING...
Oh, Please!
GOD and Government, DO SOMETHING TO HELP US!!

....

...ahem... << straightens his tie and re-buttons his jacket after an emotional outburst >>

...a pick-up order is an easy thing to do to prove how very much the Government is working to protect each and every law-abiding citizen. Well... you know... each and every law-abiding citizen except the 20-25% of then that own firearms.

In my opinion, tinted, as it is, equally by gun ownership, a fair-to-middling understanding of what, "infringe," means in English, and historical... ummm... well... I dunno... lets call it 'perspective...'

It's not a good thing.

 

[Gagglegnash]

Hi

I always thought the one thing that was committed in most murder novels was filing off the serial numbers. *Shrugs*

I'm no expert.

Not an answer.

Why does my chair have a serial number?

(P.S. We've already established that criminals are criminals primarily because they aren't the chocolatiest M&Ms in the pack. Any first-year C.S.I. can raise serial numbers.)

 

[Gagglegnash]

Hi

... clip ... The firearm/gun violence situation in this country has reached laughably tragic proportions. The big issue as I see it are hand guns and assult rifles. I'm all in favor of letting Uncle Bubba keep his coon huntin' 12 guage but what's he need that 45 for?

...and just who is it that's doing all these laughably tragic (and I know what that REALLY means, by the way - I'm a Vietnam Vet) firearm/gun violence incidents?

Furthermore, why do you need more than one style of clothing, or one kind of soap, or one shape of swimming pool, or one make and model of private conveyance vehicle?

If you aren't required to establish a need to get the things you enjoy and use legally and reasonably safely, why should gun owners?

 

[Lonewulf]

The big issue as I see it are hand guns and assult rifles. I'm all in favor of letting Uncle Bubba keep his coon huntin' 12 guage but what's he need that 45 for?

I just felt that I should point out the innate prejudice that came with this statement. Uh, not to mention the typos, but I'm no grammar nazi.

When you talk about guns, you mention "Uncle Bubba"; I can just imagine what you see. What comes to mind to mind is a buck-toothed redneck with a straw hat that's worn too low over his eyes, with a grin plastered on his face, holding the coon huntin' gun!

He's Uncle Bubba, the Hillbilly, and he loves his guns! This is what a gun owner is -- the uneducated, bucktoothed hillbilly, the god-lovin', fundamentalist, creationist hillbilly! Loves God and Country, yessir, and loves huntin' those coons!

I have a group just in mind that you may be interested in. They're called the Pink Pistols.

Pink Pistols. They're a group that work to prevent gay bashing by promoting gun rights for the self defense of homosexuals, as well as (I believe) transsexuals, transgender, etc.

As the Salon article starts off with:

Mar 14, 2000 | One night in the autumn of 1987, in Little Rock, Ark., a boy named Austin Fulk smelled his own death. He was 17, too young to drink in the bars, so he often hung out in a park that was popular among gay teenagers. On this night the sky was overcast, the ground soggy from a day's rain and the place mostly deserted. He was standing in a dimly lit parking lot, chatting with a man who had driven into town in a pickup truck.

A car drove past very slowly, sped up, turned around and came back. Someone inside yelled something like, "****ing faggots, get AIDS and die!" Fulk's companion returned the compliment. The car slammed to a stop and four young men piled out, one with a baseball bat, another with a crowbar or tire iron.

"I thought I was about to die," says Austin; but he is alive, and that is because his companion reached into the truck and whipped out a pistol from under the seat, leveled it at the gay-bashers and fired a single shot over their heads. All at once, their courage deserted them. They ran back to their car and drove away.

http://dir.salon.com/story/news/feature/2000/03/14/pistol/index.html?sid=681403

Why would Austin need a handgun instead of a "coon gun"?

Because he's not "Uncle Bubba".

Because he's not a hillbilly.

Because he honestly and earnestly felt in fear of his life, thanks to gay bashers, that could have beaten him, potentially to death. It's happened before.

I hope that your prejudice and ignorance have been highlighted.

Not an answer.

Why does my chair have a serial number?

(P.S. We've already established that criminals are criminals primarily because they aren't the chocolatiest M&Ms in the pack. Any first-year C.S.I. can raise serial numbers.)

True.

To be honest, I do think that it would be very nice if there were a way to track and trace various firearms. The biggest fear I would have in such a situation is if later that information could be used to recall the weaponry and take it away thanks to later legislation. Still, it would be nice to have a way to tell where straw purchases and stolen firearms end up in some way.

 

[Gagglegnash]

Hi

... clip ...
He's Uncle Bubba, the Hillbilly, and he loves his guns! This is what a gun owner is -- the uneducated, bucktoothed hillbilly, the god-lovin', fundamentalist, creationist hillbilly! Loves God and Country, yessir, and loves huntin' those coons!

....

THEM coons.

...loves huntin' THEM coons.

-- 'Merican Dicksh'nary 'v Hillbilly Words an' How ter Use 'Em Right Proper.
Gnash, Gaggle, Twenty-Aught-Six, page... ummm... well... it's in thur SOMeweares.​

I have a group just in mind that you may be interested in. They're called the Pink Pistols.

Pink Pistols. They're a group that work to prevent gay bashing by promoting gun rights for the self defense of homosexuals, as well as (I believe) transsexuals, transgender, etc.

When I first heard about them, I laughed my butt off and I forwarded the article to a friend of mine who just happens to be anti-gun and lesbian.

More causes for laughter ensued.

If you really, REALLY want to empower a member of an ill-treated or smallish, hard-pressed minority, get 'em a gun and teach 'em how and when to use it.

Me? I'd get all the legal-age gay folks and female folks I know gun-trained and carry-licensed, then I'd issue them handguns!

(On a nearby college campus, the local police department, in conjunction with campus police, estimate that 25% [Holy CRAP!!] of the female students attending the college will experience a rape or date-rape situation. Nothing says, "NO," like a compact frame .40 S&W autoloader.)

 

[Yjacket]

To be honest, I do think that it would be very nice if there were a way to track and trace various firearms. The biggest fear I would have in such a situation is if later that information could be used to recall the weaponry and take it away thanks to later legislation. Still, it would be nice to have a way to tell where straw purchases and stolen firearms end up in some way.

That paper trail system already exists. As it exists the Law Enforcement personnel have to do a lot of leg work but the system exists. Unlike the systems of registration and/or certificate of ownership issued by the government the later legislation cannot say "we know who and where you are so turn them in." If you are one of the folks who believe that such a thing cannot happen you are unaware of California after passage of the Roberti-Ross act.

 

[Yjacket]

The big issue as I see it are hand guns and assult rifles.

Do you mean "assault rifle" as in a real one that is regulated by the 1934 National Firearms Act, or do you mean the 'assault weapon' concept that the anti-firearms lobby and politicians are peddling?

BTW, why is a rifle equipped with a bayonet stud and a flash hider more dangerous that one not so equipped?

 

[Gagglegnash]

Hi

Do you mean "assault rifle" as in a real one that is regulated by the 1934 National Firearms Act, or do you mean the 'assault weapon' concept that the anti-firearms lobby and politicians are peddling?

BTW, why is a rifle equipped with a bayonet stud and a flash hider more dangerous that one not so equipped?

I believe it has to be three things, so don't leave out the, "pistol grip or thumb-hole stock," but still, all in all, a poignant question!

 

[Crowlogic]

I'm not sure how you could miss the point so completly. If you want to make that argument one could make a counter argument for people who have been the victims of crime who are now gun proponents. Appealing to emotion is a fallacy.

What does "laughably proportions" mean.

Did you know that homicide is down by every measure whether you look at macro or micro time frames. That's a fact.

A HISTORY OF VIOLENCE

Have you spent any time in Philadelphia lately? The Murder rate is going up up up and its guns guns guns that are doing the kill kill kill. We're heavier armed today then we were during the frontier days. This country has a gun problem/addiction. The addiction/problem gets glossed over by covering it with the Constitution. Its a little like the proverbial drunken realitive that drinks for medicinal reasons. If guns were really helping us stay free "we armed people" would have taken up arms and marched on Washington in 2003 and demanded the resignation of those lying SOB's that got us into that war.

That said now take a look around the TV dial and spend an evening counting guns, gun shots and shootings. Now tell me we're not obsessed in a negative way with guns.

If you're going to quote me please get the quote correct. Laughably tragic proportions is what I said in the post you quoted. If you have to ask what I meant then you either didn't read my post well or what I wrote went over your head.

 

[Lonewulf]

That said now take a look around the TV dial and spend an evening counting guns, gun shots and shootings. Now tell me we're not obsessed in a negative way with guns.

Sensationalist logic.

 

[Gagglegnash]

Hi

Have you spent any time in Philadelphia lately? The Murder rate is going up up up and its guns guns guns that are doing the kill kill kill. We're heavier armed today then we were during the frontier days. This country has a gun problem/addiction. The addiction/problem gets glossed over by covering it with the Constitution. Its a little like the proverbial drunken realitive that drinks for medicinal reasons. If guns were really helping us stay free "we armed people" would have taken up arms and marched on Washington in 2003 and demanded the resignation of those lying SOB's that got us into that war.

That said now take a look around the TV dial and spend an evening counting guns, gun shots and shootings. Now tell me we're not obsessed in a negative way with guns.

So... it's not the guns you mind so much as the NEWS about guns.

Watch the same news, and you'll see car wrecks, drownings, poisonings... oh - wait - no - you don't see those, do you!

From WISQARS^TM

All Intents |||||
Cause| Injuries| Deaths| Total Casualties| Population| Percentage
Firearms| 69,825| 30,694| 100,519| 44,492,876| 0.226%
Overall Motor Vehicle| 4,384,738| 45,520| 4,430,258 |222,464,382| 1.991%
Fall| 7,974,865| 20,426| 7,995,291| 295,895,897| 2.702%
Cut/Pierce| 2,435,025| 2,795| 2,437,820| 295,895,897| 0.824%
Poisoning| 828,899| 23,618| 852,517| 295,895,897| 0.288%
| | | | |
Accidental |||||
Firearm| 15,388| 789| 16,177| 44,492,876| 0.036%
Overall Motor Vehicle| 4,369,745| 43,667| 4,413,412| 222,464,382| 1.984%
Fall| 7,938,467| 19,656| 7,958,123| 295,895,897| 2.690%
Cut/Pierce| 2,236,861| 90| 2,236,951| 295,895,897| 0.756%
Poisoning| 617,617| 23,618| 641,235| 295,895,897| 0.217%
| | | | |
Violence-related
Firearm| 54,437| 29,905| 84,342| 295,895,897| 0.029%
Overall Motor Vehicle| 14,993| 1,853| 16,846| 222,464,382| 0.008%
Fall| 36,398| 770| 37,168| 295,895,897| 0.013%
Cut/Pierce| 198,164| 2,705| 200,869| 295,895,897| 0.068%
Poisoning| 211,282| 0| 211,282| 295,895,897| 0.071%

So... maybe you can explain to me why the shootings get several days worth of headlines and weeks of analysis, while the others may get a bolded title on page two? Why, exactly, are gun casualties so much more tragic than, say, car casualties?

While you're at it, why do successful uses of firearms get titles like, "Pistol Packin' Granny Shoots Intruder," and wind up on them "feel good pages," for one issue?

Mark twain said, once, "if you don't read the news, you're uninformed. If you do read the news, you're misinformed."

Same goes for TV, pretty much.

 

[Lonewulf]

Huh. Seems you're more likely to die from poisoning than you are from firearms.

 

[Drewbot]

Have you spent any time in Philadelphia lately? The Murder rate is going up up up and its guns guns guns that are doing the kill kill kill. We're heavier armed today then we were during the frontier days. This country has a gun problem/addiction. The addiction/problem gets glossed over by covering it with the Constitution. Its a little like the proverbial drunken realitive that drinks for medicinal reasons. If guns were really helping us stay free "we armed people" would have taken up arms and marched on Washington in 2003 and demanded the resignation of those lying SOB's that got us into that war.

That said now take a look around the TV dial and spend an evening counting guns, gun shots and shootings. Now tell me we're not obsessed in a negative way with guns.

Look at the chart Crow, it looks like we have a "Cut/Pierce" problem, and a "Motor Vehicle" problem. Will you admit that gun violence is overplayed in the media?