Influeza/MRSA a fatal combination

[Skeptic Ginger]

Last year a previously healthy 20 yr old attending the same college as my son died of influenza (flu) when he got MRSA pneumonia with it.

The CDC reported that after a couple years of sporadic cases, last year they saw a worrisome increase in MRSA pneumonia associated with influenza that was fatal in 6 of 10 kids in 2 states. Since the infection is not specifically reportable, we don't know how many actual cases occurred.
Severe Methicillin-Resistant Staphylococcus aureus Community-Acquired Pneumonia Associated with Influenza --- Louisiana and Georgia, December 2006--January 2007

Now our local public health department has issued a further warning: Influenza and MRSA Infections – A Perfect Storm?

One troubling feature of the reports is that the MRSA pneumonia appears to develop concomitantly with the influenza infections, not as a secondary infection.

Get your kids who are over 6 months old a flu shot (or the nasal inhaled live vaccine) regardless of their age. That's the mom in me talking, not the nurse practitioner. It is really sad to hear about an otherwise healthy child just dying suddenly from a common infection. The 20 yr old from last year was in the dorm next to my son's. I was worried the young man had gotten poor health care at the student health but it turned out that wasn't the case. This MRSA is causing necrotizing pneumonia. There was nothing that could have saved the kid once the infection took hold. That's like having flesh eating bacteria in your lungs.

 

[The Atheist]

That's like having flesh eating bacteria in your lungs.

Nice.

Puts a $20 flu shot into perspective.

 

[ThunderChunky]

Those bacteria just love a host that is fighting the flu.

 

[paximperium]

Last year a previously healthy 20 yr old attending the same college as my son died of influenza (flu) when he got MRSA pneumonia with it.

The CDC reported that after a couple years of sporadic cases, last year they saw a worrisome increase in MRSA pneumonia associated with influenza that was fatal in 6 of 10 kids in 2 states. Since the infection is not specifically reportable, we don't know how many actual cases occurred.
Severe Methicillin-Resistant Staphylococcus aureus Community-Acquired Pneumonia Associated with Influenza --- Louisiana and Georgia, December 2006--January 2007

Now our local public health department has issued a further warning: Influenza and MRSA Infections – A Perfect Storm?



Get your kids who are over 6 months old a flu shot (or the nasal inhaled live vaccine) regardless of their age. That's the mom in me talking, not the nurse practitioner. It is really sad to hear about an otherwise healthy child just dying suddenly from a common infection. The 20 yr old from last year was in the dorm next to my son's. I was worried the young man had gotten poor health care at the student health but it turned out that wasn't the case. This MRSA is causing necrotizing pneumonia. There was nothing that could have saved the kid once the infection took hold. That's like having flesh eating bacteria in your lungs.

While I appreciate your post, I disagree with the somewhat scaremongering that it entails. It plays into the hands of anti-vax nuts.

Community-acquired MRSA(as opposed to hospital) is everywhere and while it is very aggressive, vancomycin, linezolid and even bactrim is still effective against it. MRSA pneumonia, while aggressive and very bad, is still small compared to plain old strep pneumo so I'd really recommend parents get their kids the pneumococcal vaccine as well.

Besides that, I definately agree that kids should get vaccinated.

 

[The Atheist]

While I appreciate your post, I disagree with the somewhat scaremongering that it entails. It plays into the hands of anti-vax nuts.

How do you figure that?

Seemed to me to be a great advert for being immunised.

 

[paximperium]

How do you figure that?

Seemed to me to be a great advert for being immunised.

She claimed that there is no cure for MRSA which not true.

There was nothing that could have saved the kid once the infection took hold.

MRSA pneumonia is very very bad and has a much higher mortality rate compared to regular pneumonia but that statement is wrong. We do have treatments for it.

We should not overreach. Anti-vax scum often claim that we overact and scare patient's to get vaccines without proper justification. The facts support us, we don't have to make stuff up.

 

[Plagiarius]

Just try and make sure you get a thimerosal free variant of the vaccine. Thimerosal is a mercury containing organic compound used as a preservative containing 0.01% Mercury or 25mcg in a 0.5CC dose. This is enough to ellicit a plethora of harmful effects against the human body, nervous system in particular. 25mcg of mercury is 50,000ppb in the shot, toxic waste is defined as 200ppb. This is not speculation, there are studies complicit against it's use. The CDC won't tell you the full story.

 

[paximperium]

Just try and make sure you get a thimerosal free variant of the vaccine. Thimerosal is a mercury containing organic compound used as a preservative containing 0.01% Mercury or 25mcg in a 0.5CC dose. This is enough to ellicit a plethora of harmful effects against the human body, nervous system in particular. 25mcg of mercury is 50,000ppb in the shot, toxic waste is defined as 200ppb.

Bullcrap. Thimerosol is harmless and has no known side effects except for local irritation. It an type of mercury that is cleared by the body extremely quickly.

Since thimerosol is no longer found in pediatric vaccines since 1998, do you have another anti-vax lie to use?

This is not speculation, there are studies complicit against it's use.

No there isn't. The early studies have all since been shown to be false.

The CDC won't tell you the full story.

Since it is the job of the FDA and not the CDC to determine drug safety, you have no idea what you are talking about. You may want to argue against the CDC, NIH, the American Academy of Pediatrics and just about all medical groups around about your falsehood.

 

[Plagiarius]

From the CDC Website

'Does the influenza vaccine contain thimerosal?

Yes, the majority of influenza vaccines distributed in the United States currently contain thimerosal as a preservative. However, some contain only trace amounts of thimerosal and are considered by the Food and Drug Administration (FDA) to be preservative-free. Manufacturers of preservative-free flu vaccine use thimerosal early in the manufacturing process. The thimerosal gets diluted as the vaccine goes through the steps in processing. By the end of the manufacturing process there is not enough thimerosal left in the vaccine to act as a preservative and the vaccine is labeled "preservative-free".'

Forgive me for believing that the CDC is involved in informing on vaccine safety after reading statements such as this and knowing that they sponsor studies concerning vaccine safety. I am not an American citizen so I'm not going to question you about your own institutions. I wasn't just talking about pediatric vaccines as well, my concern is for all people. The statement above is particularly perplexing, as it makes the statement that the vaccines are 'preservative free' rather than 'Thimerosal free' which should actually be the case, given it's apparent unnecessity.

No there isn't. The early studies have all since been shown to be false.

Could you possibly post me some of these studies so I can examine the methodology/data? A number of studies supporting Thimerosal as a preservative were found to be considerably flawed.

Bullcrap. Thimerosol is harmless and has no known side effects except for local irritation. It an type of mercury that is cleared by the body extremely quickly.

Neurodevelopmental symptoms were found in infants that were unable to excrete the mercury and subsided when chelating agents were administered. If it is safe then why is it banned in Denmark?

I am not anti-vaccination by any means so please do not overstate my position based on one post. I just want conclusive evidence.

 

[Ivor the Engineer]

<snip>

Anti-vax scum

<snip>

Did you say it three times or something?

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

While I appreciate your post, I disagree with the somewhat scaremongering that it entails. It plays into the hands of anti-vax nuts.

Community-acquired MRSA(as opposed to hospital) is everywhere and while it is very aggressive, vancomycin, linezolid and even bactrim is still effective against it. MRSA pneumonia, while aggressive and very bad, is still small compared to plain old strep pneumo so I'd really recommend parents get their kids the pneumococcal vaccine as well.

Besides that, I definately agree that kids should get vaccinated.

The pneumococcal vaccine is not rife with the myths surrounding the flu vaccine. Routine anti-vaxer beliefs are one issue, and a serious one. But there are millions of average everyday non anti-vaxers who have no clue the benefits of flu vaccine by far outweigh the risks. Millions of average everyday non anti-vaxers have no clue the flu virus is so dangerous.

That is the reason I posted this thread.

In fact, your post reflects a tad of "misunderestimating" of the flu as well. I am not suggesting community acquired MRSA is untreatable. The form of MRSA I have posted about here is likely to be fatal despite antibiotics because the necrosis of lung tissue is so fast and the infection so aggressive. Death ensued in some of these cases within a week of the initial influenza symptoms.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

She claimed that there is no cure for MRSA which not true.

Excuse me? Care to re-read what I said? "There was nothing that could have saved the kid once the infection took hold." This is a fact based on what I know specifically about this case. I investigated the circumstances because at first I thought as you probably do, that someone didn't start the kid on the right antibiotic. That was not the case.

MRSA pneumonia is very very bad and has a much higher mortality rate compared to regular pneumonia but that statement is wrong. We do have treatments for it.

This is not MRSA pneumonia, this is influenza associated MRSA pneumonia. I recommend you do more reading on the subject.

We should not overreach. Anti-vax scum often claim that we overact and scare patient's to get vaccines without proper justification. The facts support us, we don't have to make stuff up.

And it is merely the facts I have posted about here. I repeat, it is the mom in me not the NP that is posting here. The death of children and young adults who only needed a flu vaccine to prevent it upsets me, literally. I can imagine how those parents of the WWU boy might have felt losing their son to something so easily prevented, if only they had known. I want the people in this forum, some of whom are my personal friends to know.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

Just try and make sure you get a thimerosal free variant of the vaccine. Thimerosal is a mercury containing organic compound used as a preservative containing 0.01% Mercury or 25mcg in a 0.5CC dose. This is enough to ellicit a plethora of harmful effects against the human body, nervous system in particular. 25mcg of mercury is 50,000ppb in the shot, toxic waste is defined as 200ppb. This is not speculation, there are studies complicit against it's use. The CDC won't tell you the full story.

As if all the medical scientists, researchers and health care providers in the world rely only on the CDC for information.

Your view of the great conspiracy has led you astray. Skip the next tuna sandwich and you can get a lifetime of vaccines with Thimerosal instead. BTW, your facts are bull.

 

[Eos of the Eons]

From the CDC Website


Neurodevelopmental symptoms were found in infants that were unable to excrete the mercury and subsided when chelating agents were administered. If it is safe then why is it banned in Denmark?

I am not anti-vaccination by any means so please do not overstate my position based on one post. I just want conclusive evidence.

Listening to antivaccine sites that lie about chelation removing "mercury" is not evidence. Conclusive evidence shows that ethylmercuy is cleared from the body and there is no reason to chelate kids for it. No studies show that "neurodevelopmental symptoms were found in infants that were unable to excrete the mercury". These are baseless claims to push chelating.

It was not "banned" in Denmark. Please post where you heard that.

There is plenty of evidence to the contrary:
http://www.autismvox.com/ethyl-merc...nd-other-autism-truths-and-autism-fictions-2/
http://blog.wired.com/wiredscience/2007/09/thimerosal-didn.html
http://www.autismconnect.org/news.asp?section=00010001&itemtype=news&id=6380

"Now it's obvious that ethyl mercury's short half-life prevents toxic buildup from occurring. It's just gone too fast."

A lot of time and money is wasted disproving what people simply say about thimerosal. Truth is that you'll get more mercury, and the actual harmful methyl mercury, from eating a can of tuna fish (depending on where the fish came from). Yet, tuna fish is not banned. You also don't chelate kids after they eat tuna fish.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

....

I am not anti-vaccination by any means so please do not overstate my position based on one post. I just want conclusive evidence.

Excuse me for drawing a rash conclusion here but I think this is a boldfaced lie. The evidence on the safety of Thimerosal is overwhelming and easily obtained.

 

[Dymanic]

Something I never quite got is why communicating the well-documented risks posed by pathogens is "scaremongering", yet communicating poorly-documented or demonstrably false claims regarding risks from vaccines is not.

 

[Eos of the Eons]

Alties are allowed to have double standards, as they have no other standards.

 

[T.A.M.]

I had a patient come in to clinic the other day on Bactrim for CAMRSA. He is doing quite well, although his Pilonidal abscess still won't fully heal, now almost a year later.

Interesting, but not surprising, that MRSA could be fatal when acquired in a patient fighting off another serious infection. It can be fatal without the coexisting infection.

You often seen a similar thing (one infection making another more likely) in Shingles (Herpes Zoster), where a superinfection, in the form of a bacterial cellulitis, occurs proximate to, or within the area of the shingles infection. Of course, in addition to the immune system potentially compromised, you have the open sores on the skin (technically a compromise to the immune system itself, if you consider the skin to be part of our immune system to start) that contribute, in the shingles example.

TAM

 

[T.A.M.]

As if all the medical scientists, researchers and health care providers in the world rely only on the CDC for information.

Your view of the great conspiracy has led you astray. Skip the next tuna sandwich and you can get a lifetime of vaccines with Thimerosal instead. BTW, your facts are bull.

This bolded line made me chuckle. Nice one.

TAM

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

Mmmmmm....Tuna. I think a nice tuna salad for dinner sounds good.

I was thinking of designing some kind of Tshirt with the tuna sandwich slogan.