bje
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THE PHYSICS OF FLIGHT; a thread for CIT
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ElMondoHummus
0.25 short of being half-witted
I know this is sorta derailing the thread, but for the credulous out there:
http://www.hoax-slayer.com/one-wing-plane-landing-video.shtml
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And regarding Gravy: What's with the Flying Nun impersonation?
jaydeehess
Penultimate Amazing
I have pointed out on many occassions that the TM often invokes technology akin to magic and that the physical evidence would suggest that the CiT would have an easier time proving that the aircraft flew under the Pentagon rather than over it ( shifting its plane of existance slightly and reappearing just west of Bermuda)
ElMondoHummus
0.25 short of being half-witted
Heck, look at the KC-135 fleet. Most of those aircraft are older than Beachnut and still flying!
Yep. That's right. I'm tellin' ya, if the AF really had planes that old, they'd look like this:
... man, all this provocation, and not a peep outta Beach...
Horatius
NWO Kitty Wrangler
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Gravy
Downsitting Citizen
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Thanks. I only watched once and was going to ask if it had been verified. I couldn't think of any way it was possible, and when it landed I thought for a second that it was a model plane. But I've seen stunt pilots do lots of things that I thought were impossible, so I chose to believe!
Red Baron, you mean.And regarding Gravy: What's with the Flying Nun impersonation?
I'm actually airborne there: didn't jump, was lifted off the ground by the wind.
ElMondoHummus
0.25 short of being half-witted
Since I don't know much about planes, I was sorta believing too, at first. In fact, the first thing I tripped over when trying to confirm it was this:
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=931845 (look at the "Jim Burke One Wing Landing" vid). And I figured, "Well, if an RC model could do it...".
But, that bothered me. From what tiny little bit I know, an RC can have a much, much higher thrust-to-weight ratio than a fulll sized aircraft (if I'm wrong about this, someone please correct me). That alone changes many of the dynamics involved. So I kept looking, eventually stumbled across that Hoax-Slayer site, and whaddaya know! It dealt with that exact video.
Granted, the main article itself is pretty much a combo of peripheral arguments with ones from incredulity. So it's hardly a definitive refutation. But the comments below it hold some more authoritative dismissals, including a YouTube comparison of the flying vs. the landed aircraft. Some of the rebuttal is a bit of a reach, but the rest is very convincing to me.
Red Baron, you mean.
Red Baron my patootie! Let's do a comparison here:
Gravy:
Flying Nun:
Quod erat demonstrandum. Via imago.
reminds me of uptYep. That's right. I'm tellin' ya, if the AF really had planes that old, they'd look like this:
... man, all this provocation, and not a peep outta Beach...
my other computer will not let me post to the forum, the edits disappear when posted
Corsair 115
Penultimate Amazing
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The very first time I watched it I thought the landing didn't look right. The motion was just... wrong. I was also wondering where the lift was coming from to keep the plane in the air as it was coming in to land. Stunt planes can hang from their props for a brief time, but nothing like the video purports to show.
Here's the only example if which I am aware of someone flying on ONE wing.
http://www.whoisthemonkey.com/videos/31f15-flying-with-1-wing?page=1
Bear in mind that the F-15, as well as other fighters achieve a lot of lift from the body of the aircraft and they also have a tremendous amount of thrust. Something that model/full sized aerobatic aircraft DOESN'T have.
Also, since the F-15 was Israeli, Moses probably had a hand in it too!
http://www.whoisthemonkey.com/videos/31f15-flying-with-1-wing?page=1
Bear in mind that the F-15, as well as other fighters achieve a lot of lift from the body of the aircraft and they also have a tremendous amount of thrust. Something that model/full sized aerobatic aircraft DOESN'T have.
Also, since the F-15 was Israeli, Moses probably had a hand in it too!
ElMondoHummus
0.25 short of being half-witted
Ohmigod...
ETA: Thrust, yes. That's basically what the video said the McDonald-Douglas reps concluded. That the pilot just rocketed his way through the flight. I'm amazed that the landing was only twice the normal speed... you'd think he'd have to come in at whatever full throttle speed is at that low altitude (over 400 knots is my guess, subject to correction by the resident pilots here).
That's simply amazing. Mind blowing even. Seriously.
ETA: Thrust, yes. That's basically what the video said the McDonald-Douglas reps concluded. That the pilot just rocketed his way through the flight. I'm amazed that the landing was only twice the normal speed... you'd think he'd have to come in at whatever full throttle speed is at that low altitude (over 400 knots is my guess, subject to correction by the resident pilots here).
That's simply amazing. Mind blowing even. Seriously.
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lapman
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Don't forget that the computers were working at capacity to keep it level.
I think Reheat could fly with one wing. Reheat can do it. Which wing on a high-powered prop would you want to loose? (if it had to go) (and it looks like if they faked the wing thing, they took out the "right" wing…)
The F-15 guy was lucky he was at a speed above loss of control, and was able to scope out the controllability and land. But the shape of the F-15 is fantastic for high and slow flight with most of the plane contributing to lift in some way; and those big rudders so to speak. But he did fly it himself, there are no special gadgets to help him.
ElMondoHummus
0.25 short of being half-witted
Eagles are fly-by-wire? I didn't know that. But wouldn't that be a detriment? After all, wouldn't sending an instruction to a control surface that's no longer there just push the programming beyond its capacity? I don't know how a programmer could build an exception handler for a problem that large. Then again, I'm no programmer...
jaydeehess
Penultimate Amazing
It was the landing that did not look right to me. There is what looks like an edit just before it touchs down, and like someone else said above, the landing run out twigged a thought; "that looks like a model".
However, with the butt puckering thought of fighting the controls and using max thrust to slow the plane's desent did have me going. I was trying to figure out how the last snap around to level as the plane approachs the runway would be done with only one aileron. Would he pretty much have to put one pedal through the floor to accomplish that?
jaydeehess
Penultimate Amazing
I love the pilot's stating that if he had known that the wing was gone he would have ejected because it is obvious that you cannot fly an aircraft in that state of damage.
Yeah, that would be the 'common sense' approach, perhaps a lesson for some posters here.
The computer is adjusting many surfaces at once. If a roll right is not stopped by its commands it will adjust all surfaces to recompensate. The FBW system kept the plane in the air as it is unlikely that a human could react to change control surfaces fast enough and in the right order for very long.
The F117 Stealth is also FBW and if the FBW stops working, even in a pristine aircraft, it starts behaving like a feather in the wind and quickly comes apart at the seams. there si a video of that occuring somewhere. It can only fly with the computer keeping its inherently unstable airframe going in the direction the pilots wants it to.
ETA: my last paragraph is incorrect it seems. The crash I was refering to was attributed to missed maintenance on elevon fastners. The elevon made large deflection movements then part of the left wing broke off. The pilot fought to regain control but had to eject. He does not believe that any of his actions at the controls had any effect at all.
http://www.f-117a.com/793.html
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