How did things get this bad?

[Hokulele]

I found a very interesting article on the whole Obama is the anti-Christ deal.



Full Article

Emphasis mine. Can anyone give me relevent passages on this?

ETA: Found something.

Daniel 11:37 -- “He will show no regard for the gods of his fathers or for the desire of women, nor will he show regard for any other god; for he will magnify himself above them all."

Thoughts?

That's most likely the correct reference, but it is tough comparing OT prophecies with NT ones. Most of the OT prophecies seems to be referring to actual people and leaders. NT prophecies often talk about spirits inhabiting people, rather than the people themselves. See the discussions regarding the anti-christ in John's letters. Revelation is completely different in that the whole thing can be read metaphorically (at least by sane people).

Modern Christian fundamentalists like to lump all of the various prophecy types together, and often seem to confuse metaphorical speech with literal speech, and description of contemporary events (I mean biblical contemporary) with predictions of future events.

Back to the verse from Daniel, in context it sounds like the passage was meant to be a prediction for the short term, based on current events ("Then said he, Knowest thou wherefore I come unto thee? and now will I return to fight with the prince of Persia: and when I am gone forth, lo, the prince of Grecia shall come."). Although I admit, by the end of the vision, the man to whom Daniel is talking gets very vague about time frames, which is useful if you are a prophet.

Anyway, that's my $0.02.

 

[Ladewig]

Does Christian Dude agree with that position?

Specifically, does CD believe that natural disasters are the result of God being displeased with our country's policies?

 

[Ladewig]

Here we come to the crux of the matter. Even though homosexuality harms no one, does not injury society in any way, and is widely accepted in more progressive societies, you consider it evil. I reserve that word for actions that harm innocent people.

And as far as the reality of homosexual behavoir, "it does too hurt people!" I know some gay people and I try to reach out to them and let them know God will forgive them and heal them if they choose to ask him into their lives. A spirit filled person knows it's wrong because the Holy Spirit will reveal it to them. I quess until someone is saved they just can't see what sin is. It's sad for me because I'm on the other side now and I do see sin, it's everywere and none of us can save ourselves from the effects of it. Sin is evil because it condemns us. The good news is there is a way out!

You see all sins as evil. As I said earlier, evil is best defined as actions that harm unwilling participants. Thus murder is evil (and is a Christian sin). Slavery is also evil (but is not a Christian sin). Coveting things is not evil (but is a Christain sin). I'll agree that many Christians define homosexuality as a sin, but I see no reason to consider it evil.

I do hope you'll see that calling homosexuality evil is the type of bigotry that prevents the US from making progress in the 21st century.

 

[angelsaramark]

"Just because you swallowed that religious codswallop that there's something fundamentally wrong with mankind doesn't mean everybody believes that lie."

Methinks you'll be hard pressed to prove that one. There is plenty of evidence to support things being fundamentally wrong with humanity.

 

[arthwollipot]

"Just because you swallowed that religious codswallop that there's something fundamentally wrong with mankind doesn't mean everybody believes that lie."

Methinks you'll be hard pressed to prove that one. There is plenty of evidence to support things being fundamentally wrong with humanity.

Examples please. And while you're at it, please define "wrong".

 

[quixotecoyote]

"Just because you swallowed that religious codswallop that there's something fundamentally wrong with mankind doesn't mean everybody believes that lie."

Methinks you'll be hard pressed to prove that one. There is plenty of evidence to support things being fundamentally wrong with humanity.

There's plenty unpleasant about humanity, but the evidence of the overwhelming success of this particular brand of tribal primates tends to suggest that the species as a whole is doing pretty well. It's just that things working right at that level tends to produce nasty side-effects that we've managed to ameliorate in some but certainly not all cases.

 

[Kthulhut Fhtagn]

Except maybe for the anti-blacks racism, that describes KK almost to a K ... the worst part is she looks proud of it

When her young daughters ask her what a terrorist is does she respond by saying "foreign people"?

 

[kurious_kathy]

"Just because you swallowed that religious codswallop that there's something fundamentally wrong with mankind doesn't mean everybody believes that lie."

Methinks you'll be hard pressed to prove that one. There is plenty of evidence to support things being fundamentally wrong with humanity.

Well to me one little word sums it up pretty good, SIN! We are born into a fallen world and the evidence is everywhere. And what about the question of why people die? Does not God's explanation in scripture pretty well sum it up??

 

[Lonewulf]

And what about the question of why people die?

An explanation of that does not require the God hypothesis. There is nothing supernatural about dying.

 

[shadron]

Whatever your view on sin (as defined by the bible); and I really don't care, so don't tell me, it seems we are now in a time where the bible can be checked for accuracy. With divorce rates at historic highs among other sins as defined by the bible our nation is in jeopardy of judgement. So if there is a God, we'll not last much longer as a nation (e.g. Sodom / Gomorrah).

So if we get conquered by some unknown entity and / or cease to exist for other reasons in the next few years, does this prove anything?

No, I don't think so. Did anything "Sodom / Gomorrah"'ish happen when France was overrun by the Germans in WWII? How about after we invaded and occupied Germany and Japan? Or when the USSR invaded Afghanistan, or when the Taliban drove them out, or when we drove the Taliban out? When the French got thown out of IndoChina, or when we got thrown out of Viet Nam? How about when the South was defeated by the North in the Civil War?

If, on the other hand, if we don't get conquered or cease to exist in "the next few years" (you define that for me, eh?) does that prove, or disprove, anything? I'd be willing to lay a small bill on that, if you can define for me what, exactly, you mean.

As for "checking the Bible for accuracy", you seem to be waffling. What is this jeopardy thing? Either we're guilty as sin, or we're not. Jeopardy invites equivocation. Of course, I have no more proof than you do, which is to say, none, so all I can say is, define your meaning and let's wager on it. Do you think doing that will tip the balance, tempting god as we do? If so, you're welcome to it, and I'll gracefully cede to you the bet as we go our respective ways.

 

[shadron]

Well to me one little word sums it up pretty good, SIN! We are born into a fallen world and the evidence is everywhere. And what about the question of why people die?

They die because their telemeres get too short. They die because of functional failure of one or more organs in the body. They die because their immune system is challenged one too many times, or because it turns rogue. They die because of knife strokes, flying bullets and slips on banana peels. They die because cancer cells have the ability to invoke capillary growth within the tumors. They die because prions, viruses and bacteria run amok, not to speak of worms, malaria and other parasites, and/or the occasional freak blood clot. They die for lack of water, food, vitamins A, B1, B2, B6, B12, C, D and/or E, as well as an assortment of minerals, or from a surfeit of almost anything. They die because our genetic material has only the will to reproduce itself on this mortal coil, not necessarily to allow them to see their great-grandchildren. They die from arrows in their heels, or from missions accomplished.

Does not God's explanation in scripture pretty well sum it up??

The one darned thing that probably doesn't kill them is the KJV word of god. That only has the power to depress old ones and scare young ones.

Look at yourself, Kathy. You are obviously living the literal word of god as you see it right up to the hilt. If I were the type, I'd classify you as a saint for your tenacious preaching, if nothing else. Many saints died for less. You are practically assured of everlasting life. Are you happy? It sure doesn't sound like it to me.

 

[zaphod2016]

This hits close to home. I feel the need to speak up.

When I was 16, I left home to make my own way in life. For years I didn't talk to my parents (who were divorced when I was very young). By 18, I "gave up" on my family entirely, and created a substitute family with friends who were more in-tune with my worldview.

I'd like to tell you that I stood strong, and never talked to them again. But I did- I talked to them all the time, even though they were 100's of miles away and couldn't hear me. After years of separation my mind invented better and better reasons to avoid them. The absence allowed me to create monsters out of these people.

But eventually, as I got engaged and prepared to start a "real family" of my own, I felt a strong desire to reconnect. And last summer I spent a week with my dad's family, for the first time in a decade. And you know what- it was a lot of fun.

Here's the key: there are some things you are good at, and there are some things you suck at. Some things you are embarrassingly bad at. For example, I myself suck at basketball, even though I love the game. So- if you demand that I serve as a professional basketball player, I am going to disappoint you. Even though I sincerely want to do this, it is simply not meant to be.

Ditto family. Embrace their strengths, and accept the things they suck at. You now know, beyond any reasonable doubt, that these people suck at making rational political choices. Sadly, this is not likely to change, nor is it your place or duty to change this. You must accept it. There is no alternative.

You cannot control what they do, however, you CAN control what YOU do. And you can decide to not discuss politics or religion with these people. You can say, firmly but politely, "I do not want to talk about this anymore".

Or- you can choose to engage this debate again and again and again- and in doing so, allow yourself to be disappointed every time.

A final analogy: I love my dog. I talk to her all the time. I tell her things I have never told anyone else. But- she has never spoken back to me. I accept her as a good listener, even though it is all noise to her. If I were to demand she reply, or actually understand the things I say, I would only be causing unnecessary disappointment for myself.

So the next time your family are chanting insanity at one another, just picture a puppy, crapping on the rug. Sure, it's annoying- but the reality is, they just don't know any better. But you do. And that's why you have to be the bigger man.

My 2 cents. Good luck to you.

 

[Lonewulf]

The one darned thing that probably doesn't kill them is the KJV word of god. That only has the power to depress old ones and scare young ones.

Look at yourself, Kathy. You are obviously living the literal word of god as you see it right up to the hilt. If I were the type, I'd classify you as a saint for your tenacious preaching, if nothing else. Many saints died for less. You are practically assured of everlasting life. Are you happy? It sure doesn't sound like it to me.

Word.

Kurious Kathy, I must say, I pity people like you just for this reason.

You're so busy trying to force your ideas on other people, and you will never get anywhere. You blame wildfires on homosexuals, so you want to limit their freedoms. When you remove their freedom and the wildfires don't go away (because they have actual scientific reasons for existing, not divine, namely, stuff catches fire and things are dry down there), you'll then turn on someone else. You're so busy trying to hurt other people to find solutions to problems, you don't even think of looking for the actual, logical solutions to the problems.

And it's sad. Because you want to hurt other people, and you'll never be happy, never be satisfied with life.

 

[wolfgirl]

what about the question of why people die? Does not God's explanation in scripture pretty well sum it up??

Everything dies, kathy. Are you saying that pigs and kittens and trees and bacterium and earthworms and eels all die because of sin?

 

[Beanbag]

"Just because you swallowed that religious codswallop that there's something fundamentally wrong with mankind doesn't mean everybody believes that lie."

Methinks you'll be hard pressed to prove that one. There is plenty of evidence to support things being fundamentally wrong with humanity.

Well, that would make me suspect you'd find questions with the concept of "intelligent' design, then.

When you scratch your way through the human brain and get down to the lizard-brain that forms the foundation, you discover the underlying software follows this basic rule:

"You look different from us; therefore we may exploit and kill you, and/or use you as food."

Welcome to the Primordial Pool. It's fun down here in the ooze. When you finally realize what's at the foundation of brute existence, then you come to appreciate how truly beautiful the people are who have managed to overcome it to treat all people decently. Maybe one of these days I'll reach that goal.

Beanbag

 

[Kthulhut Fhtagn]

Well the fear mongering has started...with less than a single percent of the vote in my family is already crying end of the world...

 

[Safe-Keeper]

Well the fear mongering has started...with less than a single percent of the vote in my family is already crying end of the world...

What precautions are they taking? Are they stocking up on food and other vital supplies? Are they loading their guns? Locking doors? Barb-wiring their yard? Boarding their doors? Making sure their kids know how to properly put on gas masks and that they have their anti-poison pills within reach at all times in case they inhale some biological or chemical weapon without their masks on? Is the car fueled and loaded with additional supplies so that an evacuation can be carried out at a minute's notice? Have they got an out-of-state "family contact", as prescribed by the American Red Cross' disaster preparation sheet?

...no?

'Cause, you know, this is how people who actually expect war, genocide or anarchy prepare. Head down to a country with an inadequate police force and more than prevalent gangs, and you'll find residents who have iron gates both outside and inside their houses to keep people out - people with machine guns that kick down doors and loot houses. Before going to sleep in the second floor, you make sure the iron gate to the stairs is locked - if the gangs attack your house, they'll hopefully just rob the first floor and move on.

But an Obama? No, that's the exception. Obamas kill whites, particularly Christians, and especially little girls horribly, but there's no need to prepare because, er... shaddup and do your homework.

 

[Kthulhut Fhtagn]

What precautions are they taking? Are they stocking up on food and other vital supplies? Are they loading their guns? Locking doors? Barb-wiring their yard? Boarding their doors? Making sure their kids know how to properly put on gas masks and that they have their anti-poison pills within reach at all times in case they inhale some biological or chemical weapon without their masks on? Is the car fueled and loaded with additional supplies so that an evacuation can be carried out at a minute's notice? Have they got an out-of-state "family contact", as prescribed by the American Red Cross' disaster preparation sheet?

...no?

'Cause, you know, this is how people who actually expect war, genocide or anarchy prepare. Head down to a country with an inadequate police force and more than prevalent gangs, and you'll find residents who have iron gates both outside and inside their houses to keep people out - people with machine guns that kick down doors and loot houses. Before going to sleep in the second floor, you make sure the iron gate to the stairs is locked - if the gangs attack your house, they'll hopefully just rob the first floor and move on.

But an Obama? No, that's the exception. Obamas kill whites, particularly Christians, and especially little girls horribly, but there's no need to prepare because, er... shaddup and do your homework.

Hey I never said their beliefs were rational. My mom actually started to cry the moment I told her that Obama took Ohio.

I'm more worried about how my sisters are taking it. They've lost friends over this election. Today at school my little sister and a few of her friends were angry about how Obama won the mock-election they did for the school and they stood up during an assembly and started chanting "No more anti-Christ wins"

 

[Safe-Keeper]

Hey I never said their beliefs were rational.

I know, I know. I meant it as an attack on them, not you.

 

[Safe-Keeper]

I'm more worried about how my sisters are taking it. They've lost friends over this election. Today at school my little sister and a few of her friends were angry about how Obama won the mock-election they did for the school and they stood up during an assembly and started chanting "No more anti-Christ wins"

11 and 8, eh?