If The World Could Vote

[ZouPrime]

Anybody who takes a poll like this seriously is a fool,frankly.

Well, it's an online poll so obviously it is to be taken with a grain of salt. On the other hand, there really is nothing surprising in seeing "the world" consider Obama the better candidate.

 

[Oliver]

The world says "change". That shouldn't be a surprise to anyone, including
neo-nuts and Repubs in general. What is so hard to understand about that?

 

[Cicero]

The world says "change". That shouldn't be a surprise to anyone, including
neo-nuts and Repubs in general. What is so hard to understand about that?

Germans once thought the world was theirs for the taking. Now they just want to change the world. This is an immeasurable improvement.

 

[ParanoidAndroid]

Germans once thought the world was theirs for the taking. Now they just want to change the world. This is an immeasurable improvement.

...mmmmmm...Godwin's Law...

Yes, though, the Germans (et. al.) should probably just be more like us Americans and presumptively thrust our brand of democracy on liberate foreign cultures oppressed peoples based at least partly upon arrogance a god given perspective that our model is best for us in the hopes that the other countries of the globe will eventually assimilate our priorities and perspectives out of a sense of intimidation willingly adopt our model.

I am happy proud to be an American. Nationalistic pride is too blind and easily exploitable (i.e., Nazi Germany) honorable and was a large contributor to Hitler’s rise to power leads me to the obvious conclusion that the opinions of the other citizens of the shared globe non-Americans should not be discounted.

With the shifting sands of the global power structure alluding to (via comparative educational scoring, the comparative buying power of the American dollar, our incomparable soaring national debt, etc.) the probability of a decline in America’s stature as a solitary superpower, why should I not care what other countries think?


*NOT AT ANY SPECIFIC POSTER*

If you don't sense the same dangerous pretention that I do in the notion that American's need not concern themselves with what the people of other countries think about who we might choose to "lead" our country, consider that Americans might very well be left to ponder the personal implications of just such a choice made by the citizens of another country one day. It might even be prudent to consider the specific perspectives of, say, post WWII-modern Germans in respect to American politics.

...and no: I'm not saying; I'm just saying...It's worth considering.

 

[Cicero]

...mmmmmm...Godwin's Law...

If you don't sense the same dangerous pretention that I do in the notion that American's need not concern themselves with what the people of other countries think about who we might choose to "lead" our country, consider that Americans might very well be left to ponder the personal implications of just such a choice made by the citizens of another country one day. It might even be prudent to consider the specific perspectives of, say, post WWII-modern Germans in respect to American politics.

...and no: I'm not saying; I'm just saying...It's worth considering.

When Chancellor Willy Brandt conspired with the Palestinians to initiate a fake airline hijacking in order to give the German government an excuse to release the surviving terrorists from the Munich Olympics it showed to the rest of the world that Brandt could care less about what people in other countries, i.e. Israel, United States, France, Belgium, Canada, Poland, etc thought about Germany.

Is there a JREF forum in Germany where Ausländers can comment on German politics and politicians?

 

[Safe-Keeper]

It's a thought I've had myself - that since the US affects the rest of the world so much, everyone affected should be allowed to vote for US President.

I don't mean it seriously, of course, but it's a funny thought.

 

[ParanoidAndroid]

When Chancellor Willy Brandt conspired with the Palestinians to initiate a fake airline hijacking in order to give the German government an excuse to release the surviving terrorists from the Munich Olympics it showed to the rest of the world that Brandt could care less about what people in other countries, i.e. Israel, United States, France, Belgium, Canada, Poland, etc thought about Germany.

Is there a JREF forum in Germany where Ausländers can comment on German politics and politicians?

Forgive me if I seem obtuse, but would you mind alleviating my ignorance and explain exactly how you relate your last post to mine prior?

 

[ParanoidAndroid]

It's a thought I've had myself - that since the US affects the rest of the world so much, everyone affected should be allowed to vote for US President.

I don't mean it seriously, of course, but it's a funny thought.

Yeah. I certainly wouldn't promote global participation in US elections, just that US voters be mindful of their potential global implications.

 

[Cicero]

Forgive me if I seem obtuse, but would you mind alleviating my ignorance and explain exactly how you relate your last post to mine prior?

It shows that Germans vote for their leaders without any consideration of how other countries might react. It shows how decisions made by a post WWII German leader effects the rest of the world. Why should American voters be held to a different standard?

 

[ParanoidAndroid]

I appreciate the clarification. I was inferring some commentary that apparently wasn't intended.

ETA: perhaps I spoke to soon since you added this:

...Why should American voters be held to a different standard?

Citizens of every country (at least those who get to vote) should consider the broad, narrow, and intermediate implications of their vote. Shouldn't the citizens of the US, the country that wants to "lead the world by example", at least do so?

 

[Cicero]

I appreciate the clarification. I was inferring some commentary that apparently wasn't intended.

ETA: perhaps I spoke to soon since you added this:



Citizens of every country (at least those who get to vote) should consider the broad, narrow, and intermediate implications of their vote. Shouldn't the citizens of the US, the country that wants to "lead the world by example", at least do so?

It sure seems the rest of world hates it when the U.S. operates outside its boarders, yet the rest of the world would appreciate it if Americans would vote for a candidate with the rest of the wold in mind. Since Obama isn't exporting freedom or a "new world order," is it OK to vote for him without thinking about the rest of the world?

 

[ParanoidAndroid]

It sure seems the rest of world hates it when the U.S. operates outside its boarders, yet the rest of the world would appreciate it if Americans would vote for a candidate with the rest of the wold in mind. Since Obama isn't exporting freedom or a "new world order," is it OK to vote for him without thinking about the rest of the world?

I would prefer that given the realistic options, people would choose Obama over the alternative. So long as people make their choice based upon the consideration of facts and probable implications, I'm fine with whomever they choose. I can't claim I'd necessarily agree with each person's choice, but I would respect it.

Why would you equate "considering" the implications of a vote to "operating" outside of US borders? Wouldn't/don't you appreciate it if/when citizens of other countries "consider(ed)" the global impact of their vote? Is it really so much to ask? Is it that hard or that much of an imposition...seriously?

 

[Cicero]

I Wouldn't/don't you appreciate it if/when citizens of other countries "consider(ed)" the global impact of their vote? Is it really so much to ask? Is it that hard or that much of an imposition...seriously?

What evidence do you have that citizens of other countries take into account the "global impact of their vote? Was there a poll done on this issue in Germany, France, UK, Italy, Spain, Russia, Czech Republic, Slovakia, Georgia, Switzerland, Sweden, Finland, Norway, Netherlands, Denmark, etc, etc?

 

[ParanoidAndroid]

What evidence do you have that citizens of other countries take into account the "global impact of their vote? Was there a poll done on this issue in Germany, France, UK, Italy, Spain, Russia, Czech Republic, Slovakia, Georgia, Switzerland, Sweden, Finland, Norway, Netherlands, Denmark, etc, etc?

Evidence? Reread the question to which you responded. If you look at the verb tenses offered, you can see that whether or not any citizens actually demonstrably thought globally in another country en route to their vote was irrelevant. What was (I thought obviously) relevant was whether or not you might appreciate it (presumably, you are American; correct me if I'm wrong) were citizens of other countries to do so. The question was constructed and intended to be speculatively evocative as to your ability to consider the topic from another perspective.

Also, if you would accept statistics generated by polls as evidence, I don't see the purpose in asking for evidence at all.

 

[ZirconBlue]

Up yours, Rest of the World.

An American

I didn't know President Bush posted on this forum!

 

[Lonewulf]

I didn't know President Bush posted on this forum!

I thought all Americans acted like that. Isn't "Up yours, rest of the world!" part of the national motto?

Sure worked when we were Isolationist...

 

[Cicero]

I thought all Americans acted like that. Isn't "Up yours, rest of the world!" part of the national motto?

Sure worked when we were Isolationist...

It's not as catchy as "Ein Volk, ein Reich, ein Führer" or the ever popular " Deutschland über alles."

 

[Lonewulf]

It's not as catchy as "Ein Volk, ein Reich, ein Führer"

No, it isn't.

However, Nazi ideals are quite scarce in Germany as of late, if you bothered to catch up with international news (and I know you aren't the type to catch up on the last few decades); however, the "Up yours, rest of the world" mentality, as you see in such lovely people as Darth Rotor, is still quite strong in the U.S. Not to mention there was a poster in this very thread who, you know, stated that U.S. politics didn't affect the rest of the world. It's like some are assuming Isolationism where none exists.




(Seriously, no one seems to believe I have U.S. Citizenship just because I post outside of the U.S. ...)

 

[ParanoidAndroid]

I thought all Americans acted like that. Isn't "Up yours, rest of the world!" part of the national motto?

Kidding or not, this is the impression left in the minds of citizens of other countries that concerns me.

I am American (just in case that's not obvious). I work with several people from the UK, India, Mexico and Canada. My wife works with a German immigrant and she formerly worked with both a Chinese national and a woman who was here on a work visa from the Czech Republic. Both my wife and I have observed that while all of the people we have known from other countries appreciate the opportunities and relative freedom afforded to them in the US, in terms of international conduct, they and those they've left in their respective countries seem to view (in widely varying degrees mind you) the US in somewhat the same way kids view the big schoolyard bully who pushes the other kids around, barks orders, and shakes the milk money out of the pockets of the weaker kids while holding them upside down by their ankles. Though I do take this perspective with a grain of salt, it is still troublesome.

Many of the political leaders in the US (from both major parties at least) are sometimes fond of stating that we should “lead the world by example”. Fine, but you can only lead so well and for so long by virtue of fear and muscle. If we really want to take a stab at truly leading the world (assuming that we get the opportunity and don’t end up being the western-most province of the Chinese Empire), we’re going to need the respect of at least the majority of the world…I wouldn’t wager the wellbeing of my friends, family, or myself on the US garnering such respect today, of that much I’m sure.

If you want to earn real respect, it starts with some genuine consideration as a basis for decisive actions, IMO.

 

[Lonewulf]

I'm American too. Many of those I deal with here in Heidelberg view America in a positive light. In fact, perhaps most. None of my instructors had a problem with me being American.

I study with people all over the world; many from around Europe, but many around the Middle East, from Africa (a couple have been in my class, from the Ivory Coast), etc. I don't go around rating their opinions, but many see America in a more positive light; I know of some people that actually want to move to America.

Still, there is a general dislike of American politics, notably the past administration (Darth Rotor refers to their expressing of their dislike as "whingeing"). Personally, I tend to agree with their views myself. I haven't particularly been a fan of this administration, and furthermore I think there is a lot of corruption in American politics that needs to be cleared up.

I don't get why this is so controversial. I certainly don't feel like I shouldn't be allowed to comment on foreign politics. I actually want to learn more about foreign politics in general, although I tend to fall asleep on the iffy details. Hiding from foreign politics, and asking everyone to keep their nose out of our business and not comment at all, seems more to me to be Isolationist garbage that just plain doesn't work.