Obama used terrorist Ayers as a ghostwriter

They're people he's expressed admiration for.

I am not making this up.

Yikes, thanks for the heads up.

Anyway, back on topic...

On Topic, the concept that Bill Ayers wrote Obama's books is so completely laughable that the concept is pure pandering to people who accept it because of their ideology. No impartial observer examining the facts would ever reach that conclusion, so it is obviously driven by an agenda.

The sort of ideology and agenda that would find this convincing would probably make an interesting and totally different thread.

Bill Ayers can write (not that what he writes about is worth anything), but he's got this huge stigma behind him, so anything he writes will never be taken seriously. The concept that he would use a promising student with similar (to what extent, only they know) views on things as an outlet he can use to get his message out is not all that laughable.

I think an impartial observer would have to first decide how well cusum analysis can fingerprint an author. The author of the article says it's not perfect at identifying who wrote what, but I would like to know what the certainty of the cusum analysis rubric is.
 
Yikes, thanks for the heads up.

Anyway, back on topic...

Bill Ayers can write (not that what he writes about is worth anything), but he's got this huge stigma behind him, so anything he writes will never be taken seriously. The concept that he would use a promising student with similar (to what extent, only they know) views on things as an outlet he can use to get his message out is not all that laughable.

I think an impartial observer would have to first decide how well cusum analysis can fingerprint an author. The author of the article says it's not perfect at identifying who wrote what, but I would like to know what the certainty of the cusum analysis rubric is.
Okay, you want me to laugh at the article? Here we go.


It would be another decade before Obama had anything in print and this an edited, unsigned student case comment in the Harvard Law Review unearthed by Politico. Attorneys who reviewed the piece for Politico described it as "a fairly standard example of the genre."

Because obviously student case comments are the same genre of writing as memoirs.

I bought Bill Ayers' 2001 memoir, Fugitive Days, for reasons unrelated to this project. As I discovered, he writes surprisingly well and very much like "Obama." In fact, my first thought was that the two may have shared the same ghostwriter. Unlike Dreams, however, where the high style is intermittent, Fugitive Days is infused with the authorial voice in every sentence. What is more, when Ayers speaks, even off the cuff, he uses a cadence and vocabulary consistent with his memoir. One does not hear any of Dreams in Obama's casual speech.
Scientific! This is obviously not a smear.
Ayers and Obama have a good deal in common. In the way of background, both grew up in comfortable white households and have struggled to find an identity as righteous black men ever since.

I can tell the critical thinking skills of people who read this sentence are intact. Nope, no racism here folks.

Blah Blah Blah, this is nonsense and randomness, whenever you have two autobiographies you can find parallels, blah, blah...
The "Fugitive Days" excerpt scores a 54 on reading ease and a 12th grade reading level. The "Dreams'" excerpt scores a 54.8 on reading ease and a 12th grade reading level. Scores can range from 0 to 121, so hitting a nearly exact score matters.
:rolleyes: Publishing fail. Books have editors, editors literally aim on scores like these, especially on 'popular autobiographies,' so its a meaningless stat.
A more reliable data-driven way to prove authorship goes under the rubric "cusum analysis" or QSUM. This analysis begins with the measurement of sentence length, a significant and telling variable. To compare the two books, I selected thirty-sentence sequences from Dreams and Fugitive Days, each of which relates the author's entry into the world of "community organizing."

"Fugitive Days" averaged 23.13 words a sentence. "Dreams" averaged 23.36 words a sentence. By contrast, the memoir section of "Sucker Punch" averaged 15 words a sentence.
Wrong way to use 'cusum analysis.' A Cusum analysis focuses on the unconscious usage of words like "and, an, or, the, of" and so on and so forth.

http://www.uwp.co.uk/book_desc/1324.html
http://members.aol.com/qsums/QsumIntroduction.html
A. They are the short connecting words, the function or 'filler' words, like

a and he I in is it of that the to was

and so on. Notice that these are words of 2, 3 or 4 letters. In effect, they form the syntax, or framework, of our language. They tend to be prepositions, pronouns, conjunctions, auxiliary verbs—NOT the 'content words', that is, the nouns and adjectives, main verbs, all of which tell you what the sentence is about.

In addition, the use of words starting with a vowel has also been found to be useful in identifying authorship.

Cusum analysts have found that there are nine tests which can be tested on samples. The three most common are the use of the 2 and 3 letter words (23lw); words starting with a vowel (initial vowel words, ivw); and the third is the combination of these two together (23lw+ivw), this last having often proved the most useful identifier of consistency. The other tests involve the use of words of four letters as well.

One of these nine tests—and sometimes more than one—will prove consistent for a writer or speaker.


Blah blah blah, more random comparisons, less analysis.

American Thinker lies again.


In final, this is my advice:

THINK SKEPTICALLY


When a known source with a known agenda tells you they are properly applying a method, don't believe them.
 
Last edited:
I think an impartial observer would have to first decide how well cusum analysis can fingerprint an author. The author of the article says it's not perfect at identifying who wrote what, but I would like to know what the certainty of the cusum analysis rubric is.
Okay, you want me to laugh at the article? Here we go.

No I want you (or any 'impartial observer') to first decide how well cusum analysis can fingerprint an author. The author of the article says it's not perfect at identifying who wrote what, but I would like to know what the certainty of the cusum analysis rubric is.

Note the similarities in what I just said with my quote at the top of this post. I'm trying to see if a cusum analysis is even worth while to do. And you would not start with how it is applied to the Dreams book. You would analyze how it does with other written texts first, and if it is found to be effective, then you would see if it was applied effectively in this article. I said nothing like 'an impartial observer would have to first laugh at the article'.

Think Skeptically yourself.
 
From a NY Times blog on the quality of Obama's exams and his answer key when he was teaching law:

"The next post is from Akhil Reed Amar, a professor of constitutional law at Yale and a former clerk to Justice Stephen Breyer, who compliments the quality of Mr. Obama’s exam questions.

Akhil Reed Amar | 11:51 a.m.: Barack Obama’s exam questions and answers engaged me on several levels.

First, As a constitutional law professor, I came away impressed — dazzled, really — by the analytic intelligence and sophistication of these questions and answers. A really good exam — an exam that tests and stretches the student, while simultaneously providing the professor with a handy and fair index to rank the class — is its own special art form. Composing such an exam is like crafting a sonnet or a crossword puzzle. We don’t have Obama’s answer key every year; but the questions themselves are in many instances beautifully constructed to enable students to explore the seams and plumb the depths of the Supreme Court’s case law. I am tempted to use variations of several of these questions myself in some future exam. (I won’t say which, lest I tip my students off.) When I read Jodi Kantor’s piece, I was very interested to hear that the University of Chicago Law School was willing to offer Obama tenure. In these materials I see why.

Second, as a student of history, I couldn’t help thinking of Lincoln. Not just because we have a skinny guy from Illinois who is largely self-made and who can write a great speech — I knew that already. Lincoln was a brilliant lawyer, who did his own thinking and writing and cut to the essence of hard legal issues with amazing incisiveness. Lincoln understood the Constitution and its deepest structures as well as or better than any of the Justices on the Supreme Court of his day. These materials helped me see Obama in a similar light.

Which brings me to the last level — the moral level. Like Lincoln, Jefferson and Madison were also brilliant. But Jefferson and Madison lived and died as slaveholders and did much less than they could have done to put slavery on a path of ultimate extinction. Nixon had a keen legal mind, but a large moral blind spot. Lincoln had a rare combination of moral depth and legal brilliance. Make no mistake, he was a politician who understood how to tack and trim. But he was a politician with a strong moral compass and a deep understanding of the rule of law. Similarly, there is a great deal of moral seriousness in Obama’s legal materials. They are not just about technical and technocratic legal questions. Some of the great mysteries and tragedies of human life and American society — involving marriage, divorce, childbearing, cloning, the right to die with dignity, infertility, sexual orientation, and yes, of course, race — are probed in these materials in ways that encourage students to think not just about law, but about justice, and truth, and morality."
 
No I want you (or any 'impartial observer') to first decide how well cusum analysis can fingerprint an author. The author of the article says it's not perfect at identifying who wrote what, but I would like to know what the certainty of the cusum analysis rubric is.

Note the similarities in what I just said with my quote at the top of this post. I'm trying to see if a cusum analysis is even worth while to do. And you would not start with how it is applied to the Dreams book. You would analyze how it does with other written texts first, and if it is found to be effective, then you would see if it was applied effectively in this article. I said nothing like 'an impartial observer would have to first laugh at the article'.

Think Skeptically yourself.
As I showed you, the analysis done in the article wasn't even a proper cusum analysis. So regardless of whether or not the technique was worthwhile, the author of the page didn't do it.

Dunno what you're off on, but trying to give that useless rag a hint of respectability is pointless.
 
Of coarse thats riligulous! Everyone knows that Osama wrote that book and they just changed one letter in the name.
Don't get me started on the Protocols of Zion.
 
As I showed you, the analysis done in the article wasn't even a proper cusum analysis. So regardless of whether or not the technique was worthwhile, the author of the page didn't do it.

Dunno what you're off on, but trying to give that useless rag a hint of respectability is pointless.

I think we have two different goals here. You're trying to show that the 'rag' is complete BS. I'm trying to find out if something like the cusum analysis could actually work reliably. Because if it can't the whole premise of the article is moot. If it can, then correctly applying the analysis could put the article to the test. That's how science is done. Repeat the experiment.

Your method shows that the article is inconclusive. My method determines if what the article says is possible if done correctly. Then, if it is possible, you have tools that are validated to test the article's claim and reach a conclusion.

Want to take another try at that impartial observer thing again?
 
However, when the subject of his association with Ayers came up, he pretty much dismissed it as if Ayers were a distant associate with no real connection, except perhaps some previous connections on some common projects. I would consider it hugely dishonest if Obama had that close of a relationship with him, and denied it.

But even without Ayers being Obama's ghostwriter,

Edited by Darat: 
Breach of Rule 11 removed.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
I think we have two different goals here. You're trying to show that the 'rag' is complete BS. I'm trying to find out if something like the cusum analysis could actually work reliably. Because if it can't the whole premise of the article is moot. If it can, then correctly applying the analysis could put the article to the test. That's how science is done. Repeat the experiment.

Your method shows that the article is inconclusive. My method determines if what the article says is possible if done correctly. Then, if it is possible, you have tools that are validated to test the article's claim and reach a conclusion.

Want to take another try at that impartial observer thing again?
You missed the point. The article did not do a cusum analysis.

If you wish to start another thread about cusum analysis, I encourage you to do so. This thread is discussing a hack article smearing Obama, not an analysis that the article never actually performed.
 
You mean like presenting political speeches like being their own? :D
It's a non issue unless you say that almost every politician in the world
is a fraud. Is that what you're saying?

McCain wrote a book. In his case McCain acknowledged who helped him.
 
Where is the scandal here? Is Dreams From My Father promoting terrorist ideas, violence or how to build bombs?

No = Non issue.

It is a character issue. What kind of character would write a book making it out as if he is the author, when he gives no credit to someone who helped? A real indication of who we are dealing with here.

And that is not even saying anything about it happening to be someone like Ayers, of all people.

But it would be nice to have this matter looked into by others, before forming any real opinion.
 
It is a character issue. What kind of character would write a book making it out as if he is the author, when he gives no credit to someone who helped? A real indication of who we are dealing with here.

And that is not even saying anything about it happening to be someone like Ayers, of all people.

But it would be nice to have this matter looked into by others, before forming any real opinion.

Sure. Just as soon as someone looks into my idea that John McCain really died in captivity and has been animated by Vietnamese acrobats that live inside his skin all this time. At the very least, McCain should submit to a thorough medical examination that is broadcast live around the world to eliminate this from the realm of possibility.
 
It is a character issue. What kind of character would write a book making it out as if he is the author, when he gives no credit to someone who helped? A real indication of who we are dealing with here.
The same kind as anyone who uses a ghostwriter? I mean, that's pretty much par for the course in ghostwriting, right?
 
Suppose someone claims that McCain is going to nuke Spain. This person also claims to have really seriously looked into it.

Would this be worthy of consideration? If not why not?

I'd be willing to listen, in the way I listend to Jack when he was on Medved.

Whenever an outsider listens to other people's claims, either you have to go and search for yourself, if possible, and usually it is quite impossible -or- you weigh out if what they are saying sounds plausible -or- if it sounds wacky. These are stricly judgement calls of course.

It's like the 9-11 conspiracy theory where the gov't set off bombs. You take in what you hear and you weigh it out. How else do most people really know absolutely for sure?
 
I'd be willing to listen, in the way I listend to Jack when he was on Medved.

Whenever an outsider listens to other people's claims, either you have to go and search for yourself, if possible, and usually it is quite impossible -or- you weigh out if what they are saying sounds plausible -or- if it sounds wacky. These are stricly judgement calls of course.

It's like the 9-11 conspiracy theory where the gov't set off bombs. You take in what you hear and you weigh it out. How else do most people really know absolutely for sure?
This pseudo-skepticism in the guise of open mindedness lies on the path to madness. A path that invites serious discussion of pressing matters such as:

Bush snorts coke, binge drinks at the White House

McCain not eligible to be POTUS

Palin an adulteress

McCain is the antichrist

A helmet that prevents alien abductions

I look forward to serious discussions of these critical issues. Because after all, I'm just asking questions.
 

Back
Top Bottom