What the hell happened to the Republican party?

[kurious_kathy]

Okay, that's one of the more ignorant things you've said here (and the bar on that's pretty high). Our founders made it very clear that our government was not to be religion-based. If they intended us to have some sort of god in charge, why is it so conpiciously absent in the Constitution? In fact, just to clarify the fact, the very first amendment they wrote says, in part, "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion..."

and how the heck can you be so sure that he is? Just because some nut-jobs say he is? And because he has a funny name? And because Sarah Palin likes to imply it?

Please name all of these terrorist activities that he's been involved in "many times over." And I don't mean that he once sat on a community board with another guy who used to be a member of an underground group. I want specific and concrete examples (plural) of how Obama was ever an "activist involved with terrorists."

What about Obamas cousin in Kenya, don't remember his name right off the top of my head but this guy has caused people to run for their life in Kenya all because he wants to be in control of their lives. Doesn't that concern you that he supports this type of other nation leader?

And I have said I have big concerns that he could be an undercover Muslim, he hangs out with lots of them but I can't even pronounce their names. (the old rule is people are like the company they keep holds some weight in my opinion) Haven't you seen some of these reports on Fox News? The media has done a good job hiding some of the things people need to know about Obama, but I think there are plenty of reports available if you will do your homework.

Most of my discernment when watching his debates tells me the guy is lieing, he does not have clear answers and people think his econmic solutions will save them, there is a lot more at stake for the USA than our economy! I see Obama as a threat to our freedoms, and as a leader he will have way too much power to misuse and I just do not feel I can trust the guy. Sorry but I have never been more alarmed about an election in my life. This one is a biggy and a lot is at stake for the US. I say we are a lot safer as a nation with someone like McCain leading than Mr. over ambitious Obama. Who are his supporters? I am concerned he is preying on the weaker people to win the vote by promising them a lot of things he will not be able to deliver. I think the church needs to be more responsible for helping charity work, not the government. The government has too much power already and our President must be a man of good integrity. I'm sorry but I have no choice but to question that? Obama's integrity is what I question?? Big RED Flags all over the place and I have no peace until this elections over.

P.S. I'm still going to pray for the guy that he will have an encounter with the risen Christ, it's the only hope for each one of us. When Jesus is in charge people are changed. Lord of Lord and King of Kings, if I had my vote Jesus would be back ruling on earth right now for the 1000 years he has told us he would come back and do. I can't wait til he's back myself then every knee shall bow, and every tonge will confess and that will be a change for the better. We fallen creatures just get in all kinds of messes. God help us!!

 

[Cleon]

This talk about how the Republicans have turned socially conservative and are religious fanatics is interesting, considering that McCain is one of the most famously centrist Republicans in congress. He was often considered, along with Schwarzenegger, a "RINO" and many conservatives were (and still are) very unhappy with his nomination. Sarah Palin's nomination helped bring some of the conservatives, but a lot of them are still ticked off.

He was--once. In 2000 McCain learned, the hard way, that in order to get the Republican nomination, he'd have to hop into bed with the religious right. So one year he's (rightfully) condemning the "agents of intolerance" in the GOP, the next it's "thank you, Dr. Falwell."

By the time 2008 came along, he was saying obviously stupid things like "the Constitution clearly established the United States as a Christian nation."

McCain the Centrist Maverick is dead, and has been for eight years.

 

[GreyICE]

What about Obamas cousin in Kenya, don't remember his name right off the top of my head but this guy has caused people to run for their life in Kenya all because he wants to be in control of their lives. Doesn't that concern you that he supports this type of other nation leader?

English - you're not doing it right.

If you share DNA code with someone you now apparently support them? Didn't people used to be a little classier than this? I remember a lot of people throwing a lot of legitimate complaints at Carter, but I don't remember them smacking him in the face with his relatives.

Or does it only matter if said relatives are Black?

And I have said I have big concerns that he could be an undercover Muslim, he hangs out with lots of them but I can't even pronounce their names. (the old rule is people are like the company they keep holds some weight in my opinion) Haven't you seen some of these reports on Fox News? The media has done a good job hiding some of the things people need to know about Obama, but I think there are plenty of reports available if you will do your homework.

So he hangs out with a bunch of Muslims, but you don't know who?

As for "haven't you seen the reports on Fox News" PLEASE tell me you're joking.

Most of my discernment when watching his debates tells me the guy is lieing, he does not have clear answers and people think his econmic solutions will save them, there is a lot more at stake for the USA than our economy! I see Obama as a threat to our freedoms, and as a leader he will have way too much power to misuse and I just do not feel I can trust the guy. Sorry but I have never been more alarmed about an election in my life. This one is a biggy and a lot is at stake for the US. I say we are a lot safer as a nation with someone like McCain leading than Mr. over ambitious Obama. Who are his supporters? I am concerned he is preying on the weaker people to win the vote by promising them a lot of things he will not be able to deliver. I think the church needs to be more responsible for helping charity work, not the government. The government has too much power already and our President must be a man of good integrity. I'm sorry but I have no choice but to question that? Obama's integrity is what I question?? Big RED Flags all over the place and I have no peace until this elections over.

Your magical powers tell you so?

Mine tell me he's going to win the election. And my magical powers are called statistics.

P.S. I'm still going to pray for the guy that he will have an encounter with the risen Christ, it's the only hope for each one of us. When Jesus is in charge people are changed. Lord of Lord and King of Kings, if I had my vote Jesus would be back ruling on earth right now for the 1000 years he has told us he would come back and do. I can't wait til he's back myself then every knee shall bow, and every tonge will confess and that will be a change for the better. We fallen creature just get in all kinds of messes. God help us!!

Don't hold your breath waiting for that help.

 

[kurious_kathy]

You just had the misfortune of an over the top poster being the first to reply.

Okay but the Republican nominee seems a lot more trust worthy a canidate to me! The strange thing is I hate politics, I shy away from it most the time but with all the bad laws and crap the congress has pulled lately I can't turn a blind eye. I am praying for more Godly leaders for America, I'm just sorry I can't see Obama as a good chocie. Could he be a form of anti-Christ? We are warned that a charasmatic leader would rise and people would look to him for the answers and that's a big red flag too! I think Obama misuses his charisma to get the vote. Sorry I have major trust issues, especially with the democratic party. They always seem to have more of a hidden agenda than the Republicans. At least that's my take on it. I am staying loyal to my conservative Christian World views and we need more people who care about the right things rather than the wrong things. Politicians who seek power are in politics for the wrong reason. People who put God as their leader and then run for office, well that's what I see this nation needs more of. Let's get back to basics in this world, families and lives are at stake.

 

[kurious_kathy]

He was--once. In 2000 McCain learned, the hard way, that in order to get the Republican nomination, he'd have to hop into bed with the religious right. So one year he's (rightfully) condemning the "agents of intolerance" in the GOP, the next it's "thank you, Dr. Falwell."

By the time 2008 came along, he was saying obviously stupid things like "the Constitution clearly established the United States as a Christian nation."

McCain the Centrist Maverick is dead, and has been for eight years.

Well I say Mc Cain is the right person to lead this nation for this time in history, not Obama. He cares about all aspects of running this nation, Obama is focusing on one aspect, how to raise taxes to give to the poor. A real Robinhood he is. I still say McCain will have smarter stategies in all areas of running this country.

Let the church help people who need charity, the government just ruins things when they get invovled in everything. After all if God gave people free will is it right to have a government that will take those rights away? I am afraid we will soon seen all our freedoms lost and everyone will be even more desperate if this country becomes a socialstic nation. I do not see that as a change for the better and that's where Obama is leading us as far as I can see, am I missing something?

 

[Darth Rotor]

And here's a lesson for you, Darth.

Use the "noparse" brackets if you're trying to explain something. What they do is turn off the html code For example you can type [noparse][/noparse] and it shows up just the way you would type it in the entry box. It prevents you having to explain about swapping the brackets.

This is why I love Tricky. He puts the E in to JREF.

Thanks, Tricky.

 

[Darth Rotor]

Your right, but maybe God can use a loser like me.

Yes, as a chew toy for rabid skeptics, in whose junkyard you are trying to play.

I'm not ashamed to preach the Gospel which is what can save a man/ or womans soul.

Nor should you be ashamed of your Faith, however, I note that the example Jesus set, when he invited his disciples to pick up their crosses and "follow me" was predicated on them getting the example he set, and setting one similarly well grounded.

Ya know, WWJD with conceptual meaning behind it. Jesus didn't attract people by playing the nitwit. He established his message, and his credibility, and then he made sure he was a martyr. You have gone right to martyr stage on JREF forums. Don't skip steps, the final product tends not to be what you planned to build.

I'm just stubbornly loving others when I say you don't have to be damned to hell forever.

God lets us choose, and if others choose hell, who am I to deny their God given right to choose? Hell, they may enjoy it, for all I know, when they get there.

After all don't you think this world is hellish enough. It's the closest I want to ever see of the lake of fire!

Kathy, how much time have you spent in Death Valley, the Arabian Peninsula in the summer time, or standing next to Mount Etna when the lava is flowing?

Also I do have a hard time not losing heart when I see all the wickedness in this world.

God gave us that "wickedness" in order to help us build character. With no adversity, the soul cannot grow. Yes, I am channeling a Marine Gunnery Sergeant when I say that, but so what? (FFS, does this belong in R & P or what? )

We need HELP! If God doesn't save us then no one will. I just know when Jesus entered my life he cleared my vision.

Good.

I don't want to make excuses for sin anymore I try to get rid of it and others need to realize until they confess their sin and accept Christ they have no hope.

Kathy, the way you sell the message isn't working. Your crusade on this forum, to date, is completely in vain, for all that Huntster gave you strong points for standing tall with what skills you have.

Can't you understand this? Sin is killing all of us and no one escapes the first death but we can escape the second death.

Of course I understand it, Kathy, but

1. That isn't the point

2. Your post, and now our conversation are waaaaaaaaaay off topic. We were having a political discussion, and you are attempting to hijack it into an R & P discussion. OK, mea culpa, I bit on your bait.

3. You can't spread the Gospel if you sell it from a position of incompetence. You need to understand your audience. This is a tough crowd, Kathy.

All you engage in here is bleeding practice. Jesus did enough of that for all of us, don't you think?

 

[Darth Rotor]

I'm not sure exactly when zealous anti-intellectualism became a pillar of the Republican platform, but my guess is somewhere around the time when Jerry Falwell delivered a brand new chunk of voters in the form of fundamentalist Christian social conservatives.

I remember when we covered (sort of) the Apollo program in elementary school. The US was portrayed as being the go-to place if you wanted to learn to do some rockin' awesome science and become one of the smartest people in the world.

Now, somehow, visionary science is suspect, intellectuals are demonized as "elites" (since when is it bad to be elite?!), and average "Joe Sixpack" mediocrity is celebrated as the most vital asset the country has.

I think it's pretty damned sad that the US doesn't have 5 LHCs and a base on Mars.

Never forget that the original Joe Sixpack was a union man who made decent money thanks to "in Unions there is strength" as an operating motif.

Unions didn't tend to vote GOP.

 

[Darth Rotor]

But why are they sleeping with the devil?

Because the devil is a succubus who swallows.

(Ever see the movie "The Devil in Miss Jones?")

There is nothing to like in the GOP for classic conservatives:
The Dems aren't anti-gun, anti-Christian, anti-militairy are they?

Some are, some aren't. Define "dems" and tell me what era the joined the Dem party in, and we can go from there. Dems have over time collected a lot of the soldier hating sorts into their party, though plenty of Dems are none to pleased with that state of play. (See Ike Skelton, among others.)

Aside from all the rhetoric, the Dems are also more fiscally responsible.

Nope. All that has happened is that the GOP fell to the Dem's standard. It's a lose lose situation.

I once read that historically, the Dems have ended each term with a surplus and the GOP with a deficit. (is this true? Didn't check)

FDR and Truman didn't, I don't think, but I'd have to check.

The GOP has also created a huge government, but still campaigns on the "small government" ticket.

The recent GOP has done so, and that is part of why a lot of center right sorts have gotten real pissed off at them. They welched on the deal. W has been real bad in this respect.

 

[wolfgirl]

What about Obamas cousin in Kenya, don't remember his name right off the top of my head but this guy has caused people to run for their life in Kenya all because he wants to be in control of their lives. Doesn't that concern you that he supports this type of other nation leader?

Raila Odinga. And the claim that he is Obama's cousin is completely unsubstantiated and was only made once by Odinga when he was in political trouble at home. Obama's uncle says that they are not related. Spokesmen for both Obama and Odinga deny that there have been any donations made by Obama to Odinga or his campaign.

Do you really think that if a presidential candidate were related and in cahoots with this guy, someone in the media wouldn't be making an issue of it? Someone besides Fox News, I mean? Don't you think Palin would be all over that instead of the dubious connections to those like Ayers and Wright?

And I have said I have big concerns that he could be an undercover Muslim, he hangs out with lots of them but I can't even pronounce their names.

Again, you make this vague claim that he "hangs out with" "lots of" Muslims, yet you can't name any (you don't have to pronounce them, you just have to type them) or give any concrete examples of these nefarious activities you're so sure are happening.

Get your facts straight before you come on here and make accusations for which you have no documentation other than you have a "feeling" he's a Muslim and a terrorist.

This country has real issues and real problems. Two wars. An economy going down the tubes. And McCain's own campaign has said they will lose if they keep talking about the economy, so they do this whole distraction thing. And people like you fall right into line and swallow it whole.

 

[Cleon]

Well I say Mc Cain is the right person to lead this nation for this time in history, not Obama.

1. Why should I care what you say?
2. I'm not voting for McCain or Obama.

He cares about all aspects of running this nation,

He seems to care about little more than getting elected.

Obama is focusing on one aspect, how to raise taxes to give to the poor.

1. Under Obama's tax plan, I would pay less taxes, as would most people (including, presumably, yourself).
2. Yes, I suppose Obama is "focusing on one aspect" - if you deliberately ignore his multitude of positions on other issues.

A real Robinhood he is. I still say McCain will have smarter stategies in all areas of running this country.

I'm still not clear on why I should care what you "still say."

Let the church help people who need charity,

I'm Jewish, and I don't go to church. Under Plan Kathy, am I still allowed to help people, or am I not allowed?

My friend Mohammed's mosque conducts regular food drives. Should I tell them to stop?

the government just ruins things when they get invovled in everything.

You're right. Those interstates are just awful! We should just tear those up at once.

After all if God gave people free will

That's a mighty big if.

is it right to have a government that will take those rights away?

What rights exactly are you talking about? I'm not aware of Obama having a position detailing the removal of the right to free speech, assembly, religion, etc. His past votes on gun control don't thrill me, but he's on record as believing regulation should be a local issue, and his running mate has been fairly adamant that Obama isn't going to institute a national ban of any sort. (Which would be rather difficult, given a recent SCOTUS ruling.)

I am afraid we will soon seen all our freedoms lost and everyone will be even more desperate if this country becomes a socialstic nation. I do not see that as a change for the better and that's where Obama is leading us as far as I can see,

The above word salad makes no sense.

am I missing something?

Spelling, grammar, a coherent argument, and a keen grasp of that lovely, complex tapestry that I like to call reality.

 

[wolfgirl]

Obama is focusing on one aspect, how to raise taxes to give to the poor.

Where are you getting this from? Because McCain said so? Well, Obama said McCain will raise taxes. So there.

 

[skeptical]

Lots of good answers so far!

And indeed: Kathy and MaGZ are especially enlightening.

So, there is nowhere to turn for the classic conservatives?
Americans have the choice between rapture believers and social democrats?

Pretty much, yes. In theory a classic conservative could turn to a moderate Libertarian style party for smaller government and less intrusion into social mores, but the Libertarian party in America 1) has little power and 2) seems to be chock full of nutjobs.

If I lived in the states, I'd vote Obama.
But only because the dominant forces in the GOP are hateful extremist and "my kind" of conservatives have disappeared into thin air.

I think they still exist, its just that extreme elements seem to have hijacked most of the agenda for the GOP, but that may be changing. McCain has his flaws, but he is not an extremist, which is why a lot of people in the GOP don't care for him.

Doesn't the situation in the US leave the field open for an alternative to the GOP?
A party based on the classical conservative values? Small government (for real, not just a slogan), fiscal responsibility, personal freedom, personal responsibility etc.

Not really, no. One of the last of the true conservatives, Barry Goldwater, died not long ago. He embodied the true spirit of the the classical conservatives: small govt, federalism and no interest in people's private lives.

Would it have a chance? And crucial to this question: how big a component are the extremists in the GOP's voter base?

It might have a chance except for the fact that in the US its winner take all. If the Dems get 40%, the GOP 35% and a 3rd party 25%, the Dems win, and it is hard to see a 3rd party rising fast enough and having enough staying power to make a difference in the long run.

Its hard to say how big a component the extremists are as they are probably disproportionately heard. My guess is that no more than about 25-30% of the GOP is the gay-hating, abortion-doctor shooting, rapture is coming so get right with Jesus crowd, but that's just a guess.

 

[KingMerv00]

What about....

What about Article 6 of the US Constitution? You haven't discussed that.

 

[Normal Dude]

What about Obamas cousin in Kenya, don't remember his name right off the top of my head but this guy has caused people to run for their life in Kenya all because he wants to be in control of their lives. Doesn't that concern you that he supports this type of other nation leader?

And I have said I have big concerns that he could be an undercover Muslim, he hangs out with lots of them but I can't even pronounce their names. (the old rule is people are like the company they keep holds some weight in my opinion) Haven't you seen some of these reports on Fox News? The media has done a good job hiding some of the things people need to know about Obama, but I think there are plenty of reports available if you will do your homework.

Most of my discernment when watching his debates tells me the guy is lieing, he does not have clear answers and people think his econmic solutions will save them, there is a lot more at stake for the USA than our economy! I see Obama as a threat to our freedoms, and as a leader he will have way too much power to misuse and I just do not feel I can trust the guy. Sorry but I have never been more alarmed about an election in my life. This one is a biggy and a lot is at stake for the US. I say we are a lot safer as a nation with someone like McCain leading than Mr. over ambitious Obama. Who are his supporters? I am concerned he is preying on the weaker people to win the vote by promising them a lot of things he will not be able to deliver. I think the church needs to be more responsible for helping charity work, not the government. The government has too much power already and our President must be a man of good integrity. I'm sorry but I have no choice but to question that? Obama's integrity is what I question?? Big RED Flags all over the place and I have no peace until this elections over.

P.S. I'm still going to pray for the guy that he will have an encounter with the risen Christ, it's the only hope for each one of us. When Jesus is in charge people are changed. Lord of Lord and King of Kings, if I had my vote Jesus would be back ruling on earth right now for the 1000 years he has told us he would come back and do. I can't wait til he's back myself then every knee shall bow, and every tonge will confess and that will be a change for the better. We fallen creatures just get in all kinds of messes. God help us!!

I'm calling Poe's Law on this one. To believe that people actually think like this would drive me to drinking.

 

[GreyICE]

I'm calling Poe's Law on this one. To believe that people actually think like this would drive me to drinking.

As a veteran of ChristianForums, not only can I assure you that they do, I assure you it gets worse. Kathy has yet to hit the heights of stupidity that we are capable of getting. I'm pretty sure some notables include:

They 6 days/6000 year debate
Pope Worshippers (basically any post that contains the phrase 'Pope worshiper' is heading downhill like no tomorrow)
How best to prevent satanic influence from their child's life (in their defense, I did once run across atheist parents discussing how to keep children from learning of religion, like ideas are somehow dangerous)
Witchcraft - real or fake (this does not end well)
Various testimonials to other Christians about how they weren't Christian enough (worst waste of irony meters ever)

Basically, this is a shallow dip in the well of human stupidity.

 

[SezMe]

Yes, as a chew toy for rabid skeptics, in whose junkyard you are trying to play.

This is a really sad post, DR. Would you care to identify those "rabid skeptics"? What distinguishes a skeptic from a rabid skeptic?

Are the JFER fora a "junkyard"? How do we distinguish skepticism from junkyard sketicism? If kurious_kathy refuses to engage in any kind of critical thinking or analysis, who created the junkyard in the first place?

 

[SezMe]

Dems have over time collected a lot of the soldier hating sorts into their party, though plenty of Dems are none to pleased with that state of play.

"A lot" Really? Could you please name, say, three "soldier hating" Dems and provide supporting evidence that they hate soldiers. Thanks.

 

[Cleon]

I'm calling Poe's Law on this one. To believe that people actually think like this would drive me to drinking.

Head over to rr-bb.com sometime. There's a whole gaggle of 'em.

 

[Ryan O'Dine]

Sorry to further derail, but...

I think there is every indication of this man being a undercover Muslim and I'm sorry but that's not right for the US to put a Mulim into the presidents office. Wouldn't that just destroy us in ways we can't even fathom!

And I have said I have big concerns that he could be an undercover Muslim, he hangs out with lots of them but I can't even pronounce their names.

Kathy, serious question. Is it your Christianity that's given you such fear and hatred of Muslims, or did you have these sentiments before becoming born again?