Palin, Prophecy, and End-Times

[varwoche]

The purpose of this thread is to explore Sarah Palin's apparent beliefs in prophecy, an apocalyptic end-times, Alaska's special role during end-times, and her intermingling of these topics with policy matters.

(1) and (2) are derived from the youtube videos that I imagine most forum regulars have already seen.

(1) Wasilla Assemblies of God Master's Commission (useful background for evidence that follows)

Movie preview style promo
Deeper Look

God has a destiny for the state of Alaska
...
Master's Commission is one of the keys in God's plan for Alaska, United States and the entire world.
...
You learn how to prophesize. (3:05, Deeper Look)

And from their website:

During your time at MC:WA [Master's Comission Wasilla] you will be trained and matured in the prophetic gifts

(2) Palin & Kalnins speaking to Master's Commission, June 2008

(Bear in mind that natural resources play along with "God's plan for Alaska".)

Video part 1:

1:00 There's something going on in Alaska ... There's something going on here with where you all are going as Master's Commission students.

1:50 I think God's will has to be done in unifying people and companies to get the gas line built, so pray for that.

2:40 We can work together to make sure God's will be done here.

4:45 What comes from this church I think has great destiny.

6:25 And that spirit of revelation, also including that spirit of prophecy, that God's going to tell you what is going on and what is going to go on.

6:55 Praying for an outpouring of God's spirit here, that revival to be here in Alaska.

Video Part 2 same event, Palin and Kalnins on stage:

:20 Let's give Jesus thanks because she declared some things that were powerful.
...
1:25 There are some things about the natural resources, about the state. There are some things that God wants to tap into to be a refuge for the lower 48. And I believe that Alaska is one of the refuge states. Come on you guys, in the last days. And hundreds and thousands of people are going to come this state to seek refuge.

(3) Official Positions of Assemblies of God link

The Assemblies of God understands the biblical description of end-time events to be literal, not symbolic (as do some churches).
...
[second coming] isn’t a myth, a metaphor for something abstract, or just a figure of speech. It’s a real, visible event that will shock the world at some future point. History will abruptly come to its climax with the Second Coming of Jesus.
...
The Assemblies of God believes wholeheartedly in the contemporary prophetic ministry.
...
Even though the Bible is not primarily a book of science, it is as trustworthy in the area of science as when it speaks to any other subject.

And it's all the sorrier when, due to cultural norms and political realities (not to mention her sequestration), Palin will not be challenged on this craziness.

 

[corplinx]

There is probably a copy of this on her bookshelf as well:
http://www.leftbehind.com/

 

[Ausmerican]

There is probably a copy of this on her bookshelf as well:
http://www.leftbehind.com/

That would explain her incoherent sentence structure and terrible grammar.

 

[Meadmaker]

There is probably a copy of this on her bookshelf as well:
http://www.leftbehind.com/

There's a copy on my bookshelf as well. My (Jewish) wife loved them. She was surprised when I explained to her that most of the readers of those novels believed they were reality.

 

[XBoxWarrior]

Ok...it's true that Sarah is a nutter.

But for the past 7+ years we have had a moron at the helm.

Why do United States citizens prefer the less qualified?

"End Times" folks really scare me, because they think that god is just hugging us tighter as the polar ice caps melt.

Morons.

 

[corplinx]

because they think that god is just hugging us tighter as the polar ice caps melt.

I'm glad you get your information from Lorne Michaels. That explains quite a bit about the quality of the posts.

 

[BenBurch]

I'm glad you get your information from Lorne Michaels. That explains quite a bit about the quality of the posts.

Be fair; Thinking the observation expressed by a humorist might really reflect on the truth isn't unreasonable. I think Samuel Clemens was Right On very often, for example.

 

[corplinx]

Since this thread is open, we might as well add the wacky religious things about the other candidates as well.

Barack Obama joined and spent the last 20 years raising his children in a black liberation theology church. Here are some choice quotes from "Black Theology and Black Power" which is one of the main influences of the black liberation theology movement.

-Therefore, simply to say that Jesus did not use violence is no evidence relevant to the condition of black people as they decide on what to do about white oppression
-Theologically, Malcolm X was not far wrong when he called the white man "the devil."
-All white men are responsible for white oppression.

Joe Biden is a member of the catholic church.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crusade
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanish_Inquisition
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roman_Catholic_sex_abuse_cases

And apparently, they also think the following man hears and speaks to God.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pope_Benedict_XVI

John McCain
Used to be Episcopal. Now Southern Baptist.

The Southern Baptist's are bigtime into big ugly Mega-Churches with fitness centers and diploma mills. They are very anti-gay.

We can have a reasonable and rational discussion of the woo involved with Black Liberation Theology, Catholicism, the Baptists, and the Assemblies of God (who Palin is no longer a member of). I don't see the need to single out Palin's own Church.

 

[maxfrost]

Be fair; Thinking the observation expressed by a humorist might really reflect on the truth isn't unreasonable. I think Samuel Clemens was Right On very often, for example.

For example:

"When I, a thoughtful and unblessed Presbyterian, examine the Koran, I know that beyond any question every Mohammedan is insane, not in all things, but in religious matters. When a thoughtful and unblessed Mohammedan examines the Westminster Catechism, he knows that beyond any question I am spiritually insane. I cannot prove to him that he is insane, because you never can prove anything to a lunatic — for that is a part of his insanity and the evidence of it. He cannot prove to me that I am insane, for my mind has the same defect that afflicts his... When I look around me, I am often troubled to see how many people are mad."

 

[varwoche]

Since this thread is open, we might as well add the wacky religious things about the other candidates as well.

I'm hoping to keep this thread on topic.

 

[eeyore1954]

It is almost certain that as a member of an Assembly of God church she believes in end times prophecy. But how far off topic is to explore what you could infer others believe based upon what churches they attend.

 

[varwoche]

It is almost certain that as a member of an Assembly of God church she believes in end times prophecy.

We have evidence here that is more substantial that just what church she attended.

But how far off topic is to explore what you could infer others believe based upon what churches they attend.

Far enough. The thread topic is quite clear.

 

[varwoche]

According to Kalnins, there are three refuge states -- Alaska, Wisconsin and one other.

People from around the world will be coming to the state of Alaska to get something from God.

There is some states that God considered as refuge states. I've heard prophesied over the years, one is Wisconsin. And the other one is, uh, there's one other one in the lower 48, and the other one that was prophesied years ago and has been echoed along the way is Alaska where God is going to basically reserve them for a place of refuge because the earth is groaning for the return of God.

I'm curious to track down the origins of the refuge state concept. (Is God a federalist?)

 

[boloboffin]

Palin's recent unusual phrasing that nuclear weaponry was the "be all and end all" for many people is much too close to the Christian phrase "Alpha and Omega" to me. However, nuclear war is one of those things that apocalyptic and existential thinking is appropriately reserved for. I just am taken aback to consider anyone thinking that Jesus has our backs when the nukes start flying, much less someone who could conceivably have a hand in making the actual decision.

The question is not, what wacky thing does she believe, but, is she apt to act on these types of extreme beliefs? Has she given any indication that she can give due credence to the possibility that she might be wrong?

On the matter of refuge states, the concept probably comes from the cities of refuge seen in the Torah. They were cities to where people thought to have committed murder could flee for a fair trial. It was a method to help alleviate the plague of vengeance killing that remains with humanity today.

However, this is a doctrine I've not run across yet. It could be an idiosyncratic belief of this particular preacher. Alaska could be seen as remote enough to escape much of the Tribulation (the wrath of God), and thus become a natural site of refugees from that horrific future event. That place of safe haven is evident by the very "design" of Alaska, and thus it would be seen as holding a holy place in God's future plans for Earth. It's logical once you accept the premises.

 

[quarky]

Mormons thought Missouri was the place.

 

[Alferd_Packer]

As a side note, I wonder if a Palin/McCain aadministration would bring back James Watt for a cabinet post. Or maybe just head of the EPA.

 

[Radrook]

Funny. I don't recall anyone ever criticizing any president for his religious beliefs. Kennedy was Catholic he didn't need to repudiate all his religious beliefs. In fact, most presidents have been religionists who attend church. That never was a big issue before.
So why should it suddenly be a big issue now?

 

[varwoche]

Funny. I don't recall anyone ever criticizing any president for his religious beliefs. Kennedy was Catholic he didn't need to repudiate all his religious beliefs. In fact, most presidents have been religionists who attend church. That never was a big issue before.
So why should it suddenly be a big issue now?

First of all, your recollection is poor, even the Kennedy example. But no matter. Let's pretend that no candidate for P/VP in recent times has been criticized on religious grounds.

Maybe it's because Palin occupies the extreme fringe.

When you throw all religion into one great big bucket, you lose the ability to distinguish between moderate and extreme.

 

[Radrook]

First of all, your recollection is poor, even the Kennedy example. But no matter. Let's pretend that no candidate for P/VP in recent times has been criticized on religious grounds.

I meant the policies implemented once the candidates had been elected to office. Do you know of any presidential policy that was criticized based on the religious affiliation of the President involved? Or any USA president accused of having failed in his presidency due primarily to his religious beliefs? Reagan was against abortion wasn't he? Was Reagan a lesser president because of it? Would approval of gay marriages or unrestricted right to abortion based on atheistic amoralism make for a better president? Those in favor of these would say yes. Those against would say no. But ultimately, these two so-called religious issues haven't been the primary determinants in evaluating a president;s success or lack of success in office.

BTW

I am aware of criticism of USA policy toward Israel. But I seriously doubt that the motives have been purely religious. Also the abortion issue, and gay marriage issue has been attributed to religious beliefs.

Maybe it's because Palin occupies the extreme fringe.

The the fringe is identifiable? That seems to contradict your statement below.

When you throw all religion into one great big bucket, you lose the ability to distinguish between moderate and extreme.

The same can be said of atheists but it wouldn't hold much water.
We can easily distinguish among the extreme and the moderate regardless of the variety of beliefs involved. The Aztec human sacrifices or any other type of ritual human sacrifice is recognizable as extreme. In short, the guidelines for human rights
and recognition of their violation, and the principles of cogent reasoning available to us remain intact and at our disposal regardless of the variety of beliefs might be presented with. So I really don't understand what you mean by inability to tell. Care to explain

 

[varwoche]

I meant the policies implemented once the candidates had been elected to office.

How does this relate to the price of bread? (Answer: It doesn't.)

But isn't the "fringe" as you say, a matter of opinion?

No, not really. Palin's church and her apparent beliefs are on the fringe by any reasonable standard.

The same can be said of atheists.

Er, um, back to the bread.