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VP Debate Thread

FaisonMars said:
They were both trying to be main street and folksy (McCain I think took a hit for never mentioning the middle class in the first debate). Biden's attempts were annoying (Home Depot? Can't you hire assistants to do your hardware shopping for you?), but I think he came across as more genuine, whereas that area is supposed to be Palin's strong point.
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Biden is male. He is hardly the only guy with an interest in home improvement. His pay is $169,300 a year. He may well feel that there are better uses for his money than hireing someone to go to Home Depot for him.
 
geni said:
Biden is male. He is hardly the only guy with an interest in home improvement. His pay is $169,300 a year. He may well feel that there are better uses for his money than hireing someone to go to Home Depot for him.
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Some people also enjoy that sort of thing as a hobby.

My grandfather was an electrician by trade, but he was also an avid woodworker. He didn't make a dime from it, he just enjoyed building things.
 
Haven't read the full thread. Listened to the debate, rather than watched, so missed the body language.

First impressions: For Palin, this was Rocky I. She came in as the decided underdog and held her own, but IMHO in the end lost the battle. Biden was better. Palin wins a moral victory for exceeding expectations, and also was successful in her most important mission, which was to reassure McCain supporters and undecideds that she was not utterly unprepared for the job. This will allow people otherwise leaning towards McCain to focus on him and not her, and thus may give the McCain campaign a small bounce.

Biden played the roll of the runner in the second leg of a relay who has been handed the baton with a big lead. You'd like him to increase the lead if he can, but most importantly you want him to hand off to the next runner still comfortably ahead. So his goal was first and foremost to not drop the baton, which he didn't do.

So I think both candidates succeeded in their primary goals. There was no knockout punch. Biden's performance will maintain Obama's lead in the polls and Palin's should at least stop the hemorrhaging that she was causing.

The focus will now shift back to Obama and McCain, where it belongs.

If you'd like me to mix more metaphors, just ask... ;)
 
FaisonMars said:
Palin was trying to channel Reagan ("There you go again, Joe."), and she failed.
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I heard Peggy Noonan, conservative writer, speak on this in an interview this morning. Paul W. Smith, local commentator and former occasional standin for Rush Limbaugh, asked if she reminded Peggy of Reagan. I was surprised when she not only said no, but expressed extreme annoyance at what she considered a stupid comparison.

Noonan thought that Dutch was a much more serious, thoughtful, and intellectual person than Palin.

I noted "former" standin, because part of their commentary was on how things were much, much, more partisan today than in times past, that during the Bush years anyone who strayed slightly off the reservation was immediately cast out, while during the Reagan years people were free to speak their minds. Smith hinted that that was why he was a "former" standin for Rush. Apparently, not enough stick to the party line in him.
 
geni said:
Biden is male. He is hardly the only guy with an interest in home improvement. His pay is $169,300 a year. He may well feel that there are better uses for his money than hireing someone to go to Home Depot for him.
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Fair enough, I just think that someone who is a US Senator (and who is already spending time commuting back and forth to Wilmington every night) might have something better to do than walk around Home Depot looking for people to talk to. It felt to me like a forced appeal to "main street."

I thought his emotional moment over the loss of his wife and son was genuine, I don't think it was staged, and I found it touching.

I do think that Biden won the argument over who better understands what people talk about around the "kitchen table." When Palin said that you could talk any Soccer Mom and find out that they are worried about their future, an effective retort would be, "and who do they blame for that uncertainty? I think they blame George Bush and the Republicans, don't they, Gov. Palin?"
 
New prediction: in about a month, Palin will consider taking that job offer as Tina Fey's stunt double for a series of action movies.
 
"Say it ain't so, Joe," was supposed to be the New England Patriots, and Palin was supposed to be the Miami Dolphins. I do not think she crushed Biden like the Fins did the Pats, but she stood up to the supposed best debate in the U.S. Senate and gave him more competition than he , or the JREFer libs, expected.

But even if Palin cleaned "Say it ain't so Joe's" clock, would they then be voting for Mcain? Would they be voting for McCain if he had any other person on the ticket? Of course not. What possible difference does Palin's debating prowess, or lack there of, have to do with their selection of a candidate that was made over a year ago?

The JREFer libs prefer the traditional Washington lawyer/politician that expresses himself in the same dour tone throughout the debate, while his opponent showed a completely different persona. Considering how the Biden type of politician has occupied D.C. for decades, and they have preserved the status quo, how does he represent change?

"Say it aint so Joe" got emotional when he recollected the death of his wife 35 years ago. If that type of vulnerability is a prerequisite for a potential commander in chief, then he leaped ahead Palin in that category.
 
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Cicero said:
"Say it ain't so, Joe," was supposed to be the New England Patriots, and Palin was supposed to be the Miami Dolphins. I do not think she crushed Biden like the Fins did the Pats, but she stood up to the supposed best debate in the U.S. Senate and gave him more competition than he , or the JREFer libs, expected.

But even if Palin cleaned "Say it ain't so Joe's" clock, would they then be voting for Mcain? Would they be voting for McCain if he had any other person on the ticket? Of course not. What possible difference does Palin's debating prowess, or lack there of, have to do with their selection of a candidate that was made over a year ago?

The JREFer libs prefer the traditional Washington lawyer/politician that expresses himself in the same dour tone throughout the debate, while his opponent showed a completely different persona. Considering how the Biden type of politician has occupied D.C. for decades, and they have preserved the status quo, how does he represent change?

"Say it aint so Joe" got emotional when he recollected the death of his wife 35 years ago. If that type of vulnerability is a prerequisite for a potential commander in chief, then he leaped ahead Palin in that category. You have the right sport, but the wrong teams. "Say it ain't so, Joe," was supposed to be the New England Patriots, and Palin was supposed to be the Miami Dolphins. I do not think she crushed Biden like the Fins did the Pats, but she stood up to the supposed best debate in the U.S. Senate and gave him more competition than he , or the JREFer libs, expected.

But even if Palin cleaned "Say it ain't so Joe's" clock, would they then be voting for Mcain? Would they be voting for McCain if he had any other person on the ticket? Of course not. What possible difference does Palin's debating prowess, or lack there of, have to do with their selection of a candidate that was made over a year ago?

The JREFer libs prefer the traditional Washington lawyer/politician that expresses himself in the same dour tone throughout the debate, while his opponent showed a completely different persona. Considering how the Biden type of politician has occupied D.C. for decades, and they have preserved the status quo, how does he represent change?

"Say it aint so Joe" got emotional when he recollected the death of his wife 35 years ago. If that type of vulnerability is a prerequisite for a potential commander in chief, then he leaped ahead Palin in that category.
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Your copy/paste is showing Cicy.

Of course that's pretty much every post, but this time there was a mechanical screwup as well as a thinking screwup.

I notice not even you are suggesting the McCain campaign has a chance anymore.
 
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Meadmaker said:
I heard Peggy Noonan, conservative writer, speak on this in an interview this morning. Paul W. Smith, local commentator and former occasional standin for Rush Limbaugh, asked if she reminded Peggy of Reagan. I was surprised when she not only said no, but expressed extreme annoyance at what she considered a stupid comparison.

Noonan thought that Dutch was a much more serious, thoughtful, and intellectual person than Palin.

I noted "former" standin, because part of their commentary was on how things were much, much, more partisan today than in times past, that during the Bush years anyone who strayed slightly off the reservation was immediately cast out, while during the Reagan years people were free to speak their minds. Smith hinted that that was why he was a "former" standin for Rush. Apparently, not enough stick to the party line in him.
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And that is why Rush is not doing as well in the ratings as he used to. He used to occasionaly take a potshot at the GOP when they did something stupid, but now he could give lessons to a Communist Party member in the 1930's for blindly following the party line.
 
GreyICE said:
Your copy/paste is showing Cicy.

Of course that's pretty much every post, but this time there was a mechanical screwup as well as a thinking screwup.

I notice not even you are suggesting the McCain campaign has a chance anymore.
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McCain's only chance to be competitive in the race was his choice of Palin. Without her, he would be a 25 point deficit rather than just a seven. While McCain will finally be finished in politics after this election, Palin's career is just starting.
 
dudalb said:
And that is why Rush is not doing as well in the ratings as he used to. He used to occasionaly take a potshot at the GOP when they did something stupid, but now he could give lessons to a Communist Party member in the 1930's for blindly following the party line.
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Yet Rush and Noonan share equally annoying affectations. Rush out of his radio element, and Noonan out of her print element, are both unwatchable on TV.
 
Cicero said:
McCain's only chance to be competitive in the race was his choice of Palin. Without her, he would be a 25 point deficit rather than just a seven. While McCain will finally be finished in politics after this election, Palin's career is just starting.
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She's popular among an ever-shrinking group of social/religious conservatives who care about little else. Pretty much everyone else has no confidence in her whatsoever. Her performance on the national stage has caused her popularity in Alaska to plummet. I'd be surprised if she hangs on to the governorship.
 
Cicero said:
McCain's only chance to be competitive in the race was his choice of Palin. Without her, he would be a 25 point deficit rather than just a seven. While McCain will finally be finished in politics after this election, Palin's career is just starting.
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I agree. Without Palin, Dan Quayle might have been forever enshrined as the dumbest VP to ever stumble onto a ticket. I foresee a huge future in Palin interviews, just to keep the comics happy. She's SNL's wet dream.
 
Oliver said:
Huh - how so? She appeared to be highly strained and reciting
all she learned in the last days. Virtually nothing she said seemed
to come out of her own mind or heart. Sorry, but I fail to see the
credibility part. She failed every time she wasn't addressing the
McCain points and Buzzwords.
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I disagree with none of your Palin observaitons above, it just isn't on point to what I was saying. Please re-read what I said, maybe it will make more sense, even if you still disagree.

To paraphrase the relevant point, I said she looked more credible (as a leader, debater, what have you) than she sounded. Do you disagree? Remember, I was responding to comments about whether she performed better if you only listened to it v. watched and listened.
 
sarahcareer.jpg


Well, not that bad. ;)

I'm fixated on the "be-all and end-all" statement about nuclear war.

Nuclear weaponry, of course, would be the be all, end all of just too many people in too many parts of our planet, so those dangerous regimes, again, cannot be allowed to acquire nuclear weapons, period.
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Of course, she used the wrong phrase. "Be-all, end-all" means prime cause or essential element of something -- without it, something cannot exist. Nuclear weaponry would pose an existential crisis for many people in certain hands. That's what she meant, but it's the exact opposite of what "be-all, end-all" implies.

But the phrase she used echoes the Christian phrase "Alpha and Omega", which means exactly the same thing as "be-all, end-all."

Yes, I'm stretching here.
 
Forget the drilling and the guns, I could not stomach another possible president who says "nucular".
 
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