Atheism is a false philosophy held by the most arrogant

[CurtC]

Or, what about the fact that the Earth has been traveling 18.51 miles per "second" on its orbital path around the Sun and doing it for hundreds, maybe millions of years

This was my favorite part.

 

[Safe-Keeper]

Paxim, you're a mighty judgmental sort, aren't you? As far as your man-made laws go, can you tell me which man created the LAW of ATTRACTION?

The laws that enables God to think, create, judge, be omnipresent, etc... where did they come from?

Laws are just natural functions. Where did the law of gravity come from? From bodies rotating, creating a gravitational pull, that's where.

 

[CurtC]

Anyway, I just want you to think about that little ACORN. Just imagine, one tiny little acorn already knows what that big oak tree inside looks like..AND.. that single little acorn also knows it can be all that's necessary to produce a THOUSAND forests of mighty OAKS. Isn't that an example of some pretty extraordinary intelligent design? Or , would you just attribute this to random, blind luck?

That's not intelligent design, it's just an example of what biological evolution does naturally. If you want to get a handle on that in a book that's not too hard to read, I suggest Endless Forms Most Beautiful.

 

[Mashuna]

Techno, you also seem to be an angry person, liberal with the put-downs and insults. Personally, treating others that way always makes me feel bad. Some believe such ill feeling are the primary cause of ill health. Please be careful. Try to be a little more loving, OK?

Why would you start your threads with insults, then post something like this?

Anyway, I just want you to think about that little ACORN. Just imagine, one tiny little acorn already knows what that big oak tree inside looks like..AND.. that single little acorn also knows it can be all that's necessary to produce a THOUSAND forests of mighty OAKS. Isn't that an example of some pretty extraordinary intelligent design? Or , would you just attribute this to random, blind luck?

I'm sorry you don't understand how evolution works. Perhaps if you learnt about it, you wouldn't keep repeating your arguments from personal incredulity.

 

[Zarathustra]

"And God gave man dominion over the plants and animals."

-Or something like that.

If that's true, then why is the most successful, prolific, hard to control or eradicate, and supremely permeated organisms on the planet not human beings, but rather Bacteria.

It would appear that God indeed loves the bacterium and protists far more that we, as he pretty much gave them vaster numbers, abilities, and much to our benefit and detriment, the number one top spot of dominion not only over us, but every other organism on the planet that has ever existed.

 

[bwinwright]

I'm personally baffled at the idea that atheism is such an all-encompassing philosophy that includes evolution, cosmological origins and the universal laws of nature, when it does none of those things.

Atheism is simply a statement that there is no god or gods and no organizing, invisible intelligence. Nothing more. The evidence is lacking, and therefore it is legitimate to suspend or withhold belief in such a concept until that evidence presents itself.

Atheism, in and of itself, says nothing about evolution or cosmology or the veracity of Darwin's mechanism of natural selection or why the cosmological constants appear to be so tuned that life on Earth is possible.

Its not surprising therefore that none of the board atheists is impressed by the OP at all.

Diamond, you say there is no organizing, invisible intelligence? This is where you might want to think about the ACORN. Again, that little acorn already knows what the oak tree inside it looks like..AND...that little acorn is all that's necessary to begin a thousand forests of oak trees. How you can ignore or reject the incredible intelligent design here simply baffles me. You simply haven't thought too deeply about this, have you?

In my experience, I have found that the vast majority of atheists simply hate organized religion, and don't really reject the idea that Mother Nature is really an extremely intelligent thing.

However, I have also observed that it has become fashionable or the "in" thing now to claim to be an atheist. Frankly, I simply prefer to give credit where credit is due, see organized religion for what it is and see Mother Nature for what she is.

Even when you're ugly, I still love you. Why? Because I'm one of those people who believes everything is connected, unified, or ONE. That means you consist of this ineffable oneness, 100%, and are, indeed, adorable and lovable, even if you don't realize it yet.

 

[Ladewig]

To clarify your god belief - you DO NOT believe in the OT Yahweh, correct? You agree the OT/NT god is a complete idiot and that the bible would be an insult to a god - if He existed?
Additionally, you DO NOT believe that Jesus is the 'son of god'. Or that he performed miracles.

Can we agree on this?

quoted for relevance.

 

[paximperium]

Diamond, you say there is no organizing, invisible intelligence? This is where you might want to think about the ACORN. Again, that little acorn already knows what the oak tree inside it looks like..AND...that little acorn is all that's necessary to begin a thousand forests of oak trees.

Oh my GAWD...did this guy actually use an acorn argument? That was almost as bad as the banana argument. Nevermind this ignorance about DNA, natural selection and something called science...sad.

How you can ignore or reject the incredible intelligent design here simply baffles me. You simply haven't thought too deeply about this, have you?

Oh, the irony and delusion...it burns it burns...

In my experience, I have found that the vast majority of atheists simply hate organized religion, and don't really reject the idea that Mother Nature is really an extremely intelligent thing.

Your "experience" is not credible and your "Mother nature" excuse is just moving the goalpost...again.

However, I have also observed that it has become fashionable or the "in" thing now to claim to be an atheist. Frankly, I simply prefer to give credit where credit is due, see organized religion for what it is and see Mother Nature for what she is.

Ooooh a Poisoning the Well attack followed by a non-sequitur. Why are all ID proponents so pathetic?
I see "mother nature" as nature, nothing more, nothing less.

Even when you're ugly, I still love you. Why? Because I'm one of those people who believes everything is connected, unified, or ONE. That means you consist of this ineffable oneness, 100%, and are, indeed, adorable and lovable, even if you don't realize it yet.

Group hugs...now care to explain how your Argument to Love makes anything you've stated true?

 

[bwinwright]

My favorite clear-cut example of how order appears without intelligent direction is (big surprise) geological.

• Take a bag of mud sand and gravel all stirred up and mixed in a disordered fashion.
• Pour that bag into a tall container, like a graduated cylinder.
• As you will quickly see, the gravel falls first, followed by the sand and finally the mud settles out.
• When all of the sediment has settled, you will have several well-ordered layers of sediment. You have done nothing to put them in order. It was done by natural processes.
• We see exactly this same process occurring in nature. Sediment sizes tell us a lot about how they were deposited.
• None of this requires any sort of intervention.

This is a simple example that can be easily demonstrated. There are countless more complex examples that can be demonstrated with a little (or a lot) more effort.

Now if you want to discover how things can become ordered in a closed system while the disorder (entropy) of the universe is increasing overall, that will require some study of physics. But as an analogy, think of how you can increase the warmth in closed systems, like houses, by lighting a fire, even if the temperature outside is dropping.

Tricky, I said WITHOUT intelligent direction. Your example requires intelligence to first acquire the mud, rock, and sand, right? Then, it requires intelligence to put this material into a graduated cylinder, right? So, clearly, in order to produce the orderliness you describe, intelligence was definitely required. Do you have another example? Also, how do you know there wasn't some form of intelligence directing the settling process? You don't, do you? Yet you have chosen to rule out the possibility anyway?

I've had this argument so many times before and I have discovered that ORDER ALWAYS REQUIRES INTELLIGENT DIRECTION...ALWAYS!!!!! You can not give me an example. Please try. And, for folks to believe that FAR more sophisticated and complex systems, beyond man's ability to produce, are the product of random luck or cosmic accidents? PLEASE!!!!!!!

Mother Nature is so intelligent, so incredibly cool, yet the vast majority of folks in this forum refuse to acknowledge it. Folks keep telling me that I don't know how evolution works as if they are so sure they know the specific nature of the intelligence directing evolution. PLEASE!!!!!

 

[Zarathustra]

Diamond, you say there is no organizing, invisible intelligence? This is where you might want to think about the ACORN. Again, that little acorn already knows what the oak tree inside it looks like..AND...that little acorn is all that's necessary to begin a thousand forests of oak trees. How you can ignore or reject the incredible intelligent design here simply baffles me. You simply haven't thought too deeply about this, have you?

We can attribute this organisms' knowledge, and thus "design", to two prime attributes:

Deoxy Ribonucleic Acid, and hundreds of millions of years of Evolution.

In my experience, I have found that the vast majority of atheists simply hate organized religion, and don't really reject the idea that Mother Nature is really an extremely intelligent thing.

I would argue that these two concepts have nothing in common.
One is mostly political, and the other is focused on attempting to fit itself into the Earth sciences, which though an interesting concept, for lack of any sort of evidence at all, really belongs more in the realm of philosophy, and at that, perhaps only as a metaphor.

However, I have also observed that it has become fashionable or the "in" thing now to claim to be an atheist.

Perhaps only in as much as it is generally now considered unfashionable to burn men and women of science at the stake for heresy.

Even when you're ugly, I still love you. Why? Because I'm one of those people who believes everything is connected, unified, or ONE. That means you consist of this ineffable oneness, 100%, and are, indeed, adorable and lovable, even if you don't realize it yet.

If by connectedness you mean that all life on Earth is essentially the same continuous offshoot from the first bag of floating chemicals that was able to successfully make a copy of itself, then I agree with you.
However concepts of aesthetic appearance, and ideas of emotive constructs are really irrelevant outside of human social behavior, and again, have nothing to do with the discussion at hand.

 

[paximperium]

Tricky, I said WITHOUT intelligent direction. Your example requires intelligence to first acquire the mud, rock, and sand, right? Then, it requires intelligence to put this material into a graduated cylinder, right? So, clearly, in order to produce the orderliness you describe, intelligence was definitely required. Do you have another example? Also, how do you know there wasn't some form of intelligence directing the settling process? You don't, do you? Yet you have chosen to rule out the possibility anyway?

I've had this argument so many times before and I have discovered that ORDER ALWAYS REQUIRES INTELLIGENT DIRECTION...ALWAYS!!!!! You can not give me an example. Please try. And, for folks to believe that FAR more sophisticated and complex systems, beyond man's ability to produce, are the product of random luck or cosmic accidents? PLEASE!!!!!!!

Mother Nature is so intelligent, so incredibly cool, yet the vast majority of folks in this forum refuse to acknowledge it. Folks keep telling me that I don't know how evolution works as if they are so sure they know the specific nature of the intelligence directing evolution. PLEASE!!!!!

Nuff said. Ignorant and close-minded.

 

[lumos]

I once heard Neal Boortz, the Atlanta based radio talk show geek say, "Atheism is absolutely false. Anyone trying to sell atheism is simply insane."

I would replace two words the heading of this thread to make it accurate:
Atheism is a scientific philosophy held by the most intelligent"

And then change your following comment to:
(Most) Religious beliefs are absolutely false. Anyone trying to sell religion is simply wrong, deceptive, or insane

People walking on water, magically turning into salt, spreading the red sea, conversing with a burning bush, loading 2 of every animal in existence on to a boat, sodomy and incest. That's insane.

 

[Darat]

Wow - so god is sat there making each and every snowflake.... he must have got fed up with it and that's why we've got global warming.

 

[bwinwright]

Oh my GAWD...did this guy actually use an acorn argument? That was almost as bad as the banana argument. Nevermind this ignorance about DNA, natural selection and something called science...sad.

Oh, the irony and delusion...it burns it burns...


Your "experience" is not credible and your "Mother nature" excuse is just moving the goalpost...again.


Ooooh a Poisoning the Well attack followed by a non-sequitur. Why are all ID proponents so pathetic?
I see "mother nature" as nature, nothing more, nothing less.


Group hugs...now care to explain how your Argument to Love makes anything you've stated true?

Paxim, my feeling of love for you only make me feel better. As far as DNA, natural selection, and science, these all make my point! I say Mother Nature or The Ineffable Oneness is the directing intelligence behind all of it. You, I guess, prefer to think something else. I still don't know what you think because it appears all you can do is criticize and insult people. Why don't you explain why ORDER DOES NOT REQUIRE INTELLIGENT DIRECTION. I've simply never heard a reasonable explanation in more than 30 years of asking for one.

By the way, I still love you and that's the truth. Oh, and why are you down on my ACORN example?

 

[Moochie]

A Dog looks at its owner:
"She feeds me, loves me and takes me on walks; she must be God."
A Cat looks at its owner:
"She feeds me, loves me and brushes my fur; I must be God"

I swear by all that is holy that my cat knows he's god. That is why I have given over my life in service to him.


M.

 

[kedo1981]

I’m interested in knowing “bwinwright” is this going to be used for some bible college homework assignment?

It seems to be trend here lately that “persons” of your belief category will post a massive “op” containing none of their own thoughts or ideas, just a cut and paste from some fundy web site or church pamphlet. All this seems to coincide with the start of the school year.
Anyway
I may be wrong but I’d guess you’re member of a protestant denomination, the history of which being they hated organized religion (the Catholic Church) so much they broke off and formed their own, with all the wars and blood shed that ensued, happily praising god all the while.
I’ll gladly tell you very simply why I’m an atheist.
The supernatural isn’t real.
No need to go any further.
Explain God, no need The supernatural isn’t real.
Explain how life began, throw out all the explanations that need a supernatural cause and go from there.

One question I’d like you to answer is how is being an atheist more “arrogant” than a person who believes they will live like gods for ever and ever?

 

[bwinwright]

I would replace two words the heading of this thread to make it accurate:
Atheism is a scientific philosophy held by the most intelligent"

And then change your following comment to:
(Most) Religious beliefs are absolutely false. Anyone trying to sell religion is simply wrong, deceptive, or insane

People walking on water, magically turning into salt, spreading the red sea, conversing with a burning bush, loading 2 of every animal in existence on to a boat, sodomy and incest. That's insane.

Lumos, I agree with the anti-organized religion stance. However, I simply don't understand why and "intelligent" person would think that ORDER DOES NOT REQUIRE INTELLIGENT DIRECTION.

Have you ever heard of the Tavistock Institute or Operation Mockingbird?
There is an organized movement in the media today to spread the philosophy of atheism, when the real problem is with organized religions.

To deny the existence of an intelligence, other than that belonging to mankind or space aliens if they exist, is atheism too. Using this definition, atheism is clearly a false philosophy.

 

[paximperium]

Paxim, my feeling of love for you only make me feel better.

The dishonest patronizing condescension makes me feel ill. I don't believe you. Your posts are filled with anger and hate so please spare me your drivel.

As far as DNA, natural selection, and science, these all make my point! I say Mother Nature or The Ineffable Oneness is the directing intelligence behind all of it. You, I guess, prefer to think something else.

Yes I do. I prefer to believe in attempting to understand, explore and learn new things unlike people who prefer to delude themselves into blissful ignorance.

I still don't know what you think because it appears all you can do is criticize and insult people.

I find people who spread hatred towards atheists and the idea that ignorance, superstition and stupidity as good things are harmful to society. So why should I keep quiet?

Why don't you explain why ORDER DOES NOT REQUIRE INTELLIGENT DIRECTION. I've simply never heard a reasonable explanation in more than 30 years of asking for one.

Hahaha...why don't you explain why it does? You're the one making a claim that order requires "intelligence" including simple things like crystals, sedimentation and whole host of other well understood scientific concepts.

By the way, I still love you and that's the truth.

I tend to take the definition of love very seriously. You use a loose and useless definition that has little meaning.

Oh, and why are you down on my ACORN example?

Honestly? Because it is stupid.

An acorn becomes a tree because of DNA, natural selection and millions of years of evolution. Your example does nothing to support any "intelligence" but makes you look ignorant about the process.

 

[Polgara]

I surely don't understand how that comment makes any sense.

Read about Information Theory/Entropy.

 

[Twiler]

Bwinwright, explain: If any organised entity requires another organised entity to design it, and this is a universal rule, where did the first such entity come from?

Resorting to a 'beyond human knowledge' stance will not help you, as that would equally explain a universe without deities, running on physical laws.

To answer your earlier question:

Order does not require intelligent direction becuase it is the result of universal laws.

Also, are not all emotions relativistic? Surely you love us less than your family?